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Types of Power Weapons Warhammer 40,000 Rule Book, page 61
If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell what type of power weapon it has.

The Leaders of the Pack Codex: Space Wolves, page 81
...no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination.

So my question is thus: Does a Power Axe count as different wargear than a Power Sword? RAI suggests yes. I'm trying to find RAW to back that up.

I seem to recall an FAQ question saying that the answer to this was "no" but the updated FAQ doesn't seem to have that question anymore: (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2420319a_Space_Wolves_6th_Ed_V1.pdf)

Am I just remembering wrong and that was never an FAQ clarification? Or was it removed, suggesting that it does count now.

Also, it seems to be that the FAQ makes it so there are only two types of Frost Weapons: Axes and Swords. So no Frost Mauls or Lances. I don't really mind that one (though still miffed about the Frost Axe being unwieldy; need to fix my sweet count-as Ragnar and Thunderwolf mounted Wolf Guard Battle Leader now...) but it would be good to be clear on that as well.

The rules for when you decide what kind of power weapon are ambiguous as to the precise timing for the decision.

Nothing allows you, as the player, to decide what type of weapon it is when building a list. You buy a power weapon, that power weapon has the statistics of whatever you have modelled.

It is still on your list as a power weapon, so would still be considered as being the same as any other power weapon, even if when the model is looked at they are different.

The only way you get to choose is through the model you use for that particular unit.

It means that in some games you can use the Axe model, and in other games the Sword model. But they would always be on your list as a Power Weapon.

Kiredor wrote:
Nothing allows you, as the player, to decide what type of weapon it is when building a list. You buy a power weapon, that power weapon has the statistics of whatever you have modelled.

Well you kind of can. If you want a power axe, then use a model with an axe. If you want a power sword, use a model with a sword. If you want a power maul then....What is a maul anyway? Is it like a mace or a club?

It is still on your list as a power weapon, so would still be considered as being the same as any other power weapon, even if when the model is looked at they are different.

The only way you get to choose is through the model you use for that particular unit.

It means that in some games you can use the Axe model, and in other games the Sword model. But they would always be on your list as a Power Weapon.

I think Kriedor is right though. As far as "The Leader's of the Pack" go, I would consider power axes, power swords and power mauls all to be power weapons. Therefore, you couldn't take two HQ characters with power weapons and otherwise identical wargear, but say that they are different because one of them had an axe and the other had a sword.

That makes sense to me. It will be interesting to see if they will list out Power Swords and Power Axes separately in the future, or if Power Weapon will still be a wargear choice.

Grugknuckle: Maul is a giant hammer basically. So yes, staves/clubs/maces count as Power Mauls.

Well if you look at the FAQ where it list the Options for the Wolf Lord
5th Bullet “Change Power Fist to: Power Fist, Frost Blade, or Frost Axe”

I know that they did not FAQ the Weapons, but if the above example they would be different.

There's even a picture of a Power Maul in the Rulebook.

Yeah I'm just dumb.

Still, I'd like to model some of my power weapons as power mauls, but I'd be afraid that they would be confused for thunderhammers. Right now the only one that I'm sure is a "power maul" is my wolf priest's crozius arcanum.

Grugknuckle wrote:Yeah I'm just dumb.

Still, I'd like to model some of my power weapons as power mauls, but I'd be afraid that they would be confused for thunderhammers. Right now the only one that I'm sure is a "power maul" is my wolf priest's crozius arcanum.

EDIT : Apologies for the use of the word R3tard.

if you look in the dark angel upgrade box set there is a power armour space marine "power maul"

Axes being a huge aspect of the fluff associated with SW and swords being considered rare gifts of honor, I will be asking a favor of my opponents to accept the following counts as regarding Frost Weapons and power weapons,

One-handed axes, such as on the finecast wolf lord on TWM, counts-as a frost blade.

Two handed axe such as GH packs, counts as power axe.

Granted my frost weapons and power weapons are also distinguished by distinct paintjobs, I hope an opponent wont mind.

Brother Ramses wrote:Axes being a huge aspect of the fluff associated with SW and swords being considered rare gifts of honor, I will be asking a favor of my opponents to accept the following counts as regarding Frost Weapons and power weapons,

One-handed axes, such as on the finecast wolf lord on TWM, counts-as a frost blade.

Two handed axe such as GH packs, counts as power axe.

Granted my frost weapons and power weapons are also distinguished by distinct paintjobs, I hope an opponent wont mind.

Thats how my group is planing on doing it.

Why wouldn't the one-handed axe count as a frost axe?

To each his own, I suppose.

pretre wrote:Why wouldn't the one-handed axe count as a frost axe?

To each his own, I suppose.

By all means it should be considered a frost axe. However, I would be asking my opponent to counts as a frost blade because I have no desire to drop my wolf lord initiative to 1 and ruin the model with an actuual sword.

Aha, gotcha. Amusing enough, Grimnar gets an axe that counts as either a PF or a Frost Blade, not a frost axe. He's special though.

I may give that a shot, but I don't think it will fly at a tournament. All well, my list seems to be shifting dramatically as it is. I may not be using my Thunderwolf Cavalry most of the time anyways...

cowmonaut wrote:I may give that a shot, but I don't think it will fly at a tournament. All well, my list seems to be shifting dramatically as it is. I may not be using my Thunderwolf Cavalry most of the time anyways...

Yea, I can see someone being a stickler for frost axe/frost blade wysiwyg thus trying to bone me. However when I can point to an army list specifying frost blade and point to the difference between a frost blade (modeled 1 hand axe) and frost axe (modeled 2 handed axe) with the specif painting seperating frost weapons from power weapons from runic weapons, I think I will get the pass.

The problem is that you are outside of Counts-As then and into proxy.

I agree that it isn't a big deal, but having a 'some axes are Axes and some are blades' is a bad kind of proxy.

It would be better if you just didn't have any power axes in your army so that all your axe models counted as Frost Blades. That would be easy to remember.

pretre wrote:The problem is that you are outside of Counts-As then and into proxy.

I agree that it isn't a big deal, but having a 'some axes are Axes and some are blades' is a bad kind of proxy.

It would be better if you just didn't have any power axes in your army so that all your axe models counted as Frost Blades. That would be easy to remember.

Well, there wont be any frost axes in the army at least, but two handed power axes in the GH packs who do not have the option of any frost weapons should not be a problem. Of course my mileage may vary in regard to what kind of opponent I face.

Still, that is aesthetically Axes counting as two different things. Not a fan.

Brother Ramses wrote:

pretre wrote:Why wouldn't the one-handed axe count as a frost axe?

To each his own, I suppose.

By all means it should be considered a frost axe. However, I would be asking my opponent to counts as a frost blade because I have no desire to drop my wolf lord initiative to 1 and ruin the model with an actuual sword.

Would you not put a wolf claw on him? Works out better in almost ever circumstance.

Style.

For BR, I'd like to point out that the rules around choosing your characters power weapon through what the model is using is restricted purely to Force Weapons and Power Weapons.

As Frost Weapons are not included, there is no requirement for a model's Frost Blade to be a sword, nor is there anything meaning that your model has an Axe. You ARE allowed to choose when writing a list between an Axe and a Blade, so there is never a point where your opponent gets to argue.

Right, but a Frost Axe should still be represented by a Frost Axe and a Frost Blade should still be represented by a Frost Blade. Not the other way around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The FAQ, in fact, replaces the entire last sentence that starts with 'Regardless of what they look like' which means the previous sentences describing how they are represented are now required.

Blade does not mean sword. An axe has a blade. So does a chainsaw (If we take the fluff description, frostblades are chainswords with diamond teeth).

But there is no 'look at the model to determine if its a Frost Blade or Frost Axe.'

You pay for a frost axe, you have a frost axe.

You pay for a frost blade, you have a frost blade.

Except if it looks like an axe, it should be an axe. WYSIWYG and all.

ok i think this will solve it..........

you can purchase any power weapon for the price listed these includes: Swords(AP:3), Axes(AP:2 Strength:+1 unwieldy) , Mauls (AP:4 Strength: +2, Shocking) now the tricky thing is can you buy any of these, the rulebook saids if it not SPECIFIED JUST LOOK AT YOUR MINIATURE, i think for most of the marine Sargents or wolfguards wield standard power swords.......but if you seen in the box they normal wield Frostblades or Frostaxes, so i think that you can pass a frost axe as a normal Power Axe, Mauls i think not, i have only see them in dark angels veteran squad and energy lance y think they are meant for Eldars or even GreyKnigths........

But for the most part why will you wanna take a Power Axe when for a little more you can take a FrostAxe, BUT in better thinking why in the world will people wanna take a FROSTAXE or POWERAXE, WHEN STANDARD POWER FIST ARE FAR BETTER................maybe in trying reducing cost, but i thing Axes are just dull, the unwieldy rule makes them worst than before and people prefer to take power fist now

Insert Billy Madison answer speech here

jakingo wrote:ok i think this will solve it..........

you can purchase any power weapon for the price listed these includes: Swords(AP:3), Axes(AP:2 Strength:+1 unwieldy) , Mauls (AP:4 Strength: +2, Shocking) now the tricky thing is can you buy any of these, the rulebook saids if it not SPECIFIED JUST LOOK AT YOUR MINIATURE, i think for most of the marine Sargents or wolfguards wield standard power swords.......but if you seen in the box they normal wield Frostblades or Frostaxes, so i think that you can pass a frost axe as a normal Power Axe, Mauls i think not, i have only see them in dark angels veteran squad and energy lance y think they are meant for Eldars or even GreyKnigths........

But for the most part why will you wanna take a Power Axe when for a little more you can take a Frost Axe, BUT in better thinking why in the world will people wanna take a FROSTAXE or POWERAXE, WHEN STANDARD POWER FIST ARE FAR BETTER................maybe in trying reducing cost, but i thing Axes are just dull, the unwieldy rule makes them worst than before and people prefer to take power fist now

As far as passing off Power Weapons of as Frost Weapons I just paint the Power Weapons Red, Frost Weapons Blue and for that fact Runic/Force Weapons Green. I let my opponent know that and problem solves.

As far as Power Axe/Power Fist is see three ways of using the Axe over the Fist
1] The Axe is cheaper
2] With the Axe you get a second Attack
3] Sometimes it just looks Cooler.

With my Thunder Wolf Cavalry I am thinking of taking Frost Axes for the Above Reasons: Thunder Lord will get 5x S7 AP2 Attacks, 6 on an Assault. That’s enough to deal with a Dreadnaught.

Unfortunately, RAW wise Kiredor is correct. As you only select a "power weapon" or "frost weapon" when you put your list together, you don't dictate at that point whether it's a sword, axe, maul or otherwise. And Leaders of the Pack specifically applies to army selection.

However, it's pretty obvious that it goes against the spirit of the rules, as a model with a sword is going to act differently and likely have a different battlefield role than one with an axe. Therefore, I would ignore the RAW in an actual game and hope that this gets errata'd.

Grugknuckle wrote:
What is a maul anyway?

It's where goth chicks go to get the only job available to them. Cashier at hot topic.

It's where goth chicks go to get the only job available to them. Cashier at hot topic.

+1 !