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Can someone help me understand pile-ins?

Example, would I swing Ahriman's attacks at the same time he piles-in to a combat vs. an enemy tactical squad? What about a sorcerer (I4) piling in with a Force Axe?

Are attacks done at the initiative step pile-in subphase, or later?

If so, why is there a paragraph for Initiative Step pile-in and all that, and then "Who Can Fight" is a separate paragraph? To me, initiative pile-ins occur before determining who can fight. Then, you start swinging.

I am totally confused, and haven't been able to find it. I admit that I could be wrong in my interpretation, so don't hurt me too much.

Pile in. Check to see who is in range to fight. Highest initiative swings first. Pull casualties.
All comes down to who is in the 2" bubble.

That's how I figure.. but people are determined to say that it's incorrect.

Declare Charge
Resolve Overwatch
Roll Charge range
Charge Move
End Charge subphase
Start Fight subphase
at each Initive Step Pile in any model that goes on that Inititive, only move 3" active player moves first, then check to see if your guys at that initiative are in base or within 2" of someone that is.

arch1angel wrote:Declare Charge
Resolve Overwatch
Roll Charge range
Charge Move
End Charge subphase
Start Fight subphase
at each Initive Step Pile in any model that goes on that Inititive, only move 3" active player moves first, then check to see if your guys at that initiative are in base or within 2" of someone that is.

What about models that go at two initiatives like techmarines?

What if you pile into a whip coil?

Unit1126PLL wrote:
What about models that go at two initiatives like techmarines?

i would say if at INI 1 if you are not in base, you move up to 3" to attempt to get in B2B.. but that is just a guess



Automatically Appended Next Post:

frenrik wrote:What if you pile into a whip coil?

im guessing here, cant find a rule to Confirm or denigh it, but i would say if at your INI you are not in b2b with a whipcoil you can move, then if you move B2B you drop.. but that is just a guess im not sure ill keep looking and see what i can find, or if someone finds a real answer

There has been discussion on when you pile-in/attack. One side claims you pile in at your listed Initiative (which may be modified, i.e. Banshee Masks), others claim you pile in when you make your attack. Personally, I think you pile-in when you make an attack due to HoW not allowing you to pile-in at Initative 10. YMMV.

Happyjew wrote:There has been discussion on when you pile-in/attack. One side claims you pile in at your listed Initiative (which may be modified, i.e. Banshee Masks), others claim you pile in when you make your attack. Personally, I think you pile-in when you make an attack due to HoW not allowing you to pile-in at Initative 10. YMMV.

That's my line of thought, too. RAW is that you pile in at the model's actual Initiative value, but all sorts of rules oddities occur when this happens (Banshees attack before they can pile in? Power fists/axes attack after your opponent has a chance to remove engaged models?), but the HoW wording suggests that GW intended otherwise.

It's just much less of a headache to simply pile in at the same Initiative step at which your model attacks, and if they get bonus attacks at different Initiatives then they only pile in when they make their normal attacks. Not fully RAW, but it's how my group is going to do it.

Unit1126PLL wrote:What about models that go at two initiatives like techmarines?

He would move in at normal I to make his normal attacks, at I1 he would strike if he can but no pile in.

frenrik wrote:What if you pile into a whip coil?

There are no clear rules for that yet, last ed when defenders reacted/combatants piled in their initiative dropped, so for now most people play it that way.

I believe you are supposed to Pile in and attack at the same Init Step. This would mean PFists would Pile in and attack at Init step 1.

The reason for this is that you always attack at your Initiative. Unwieldy weapons attack at Initiative step one - which implies that it modifies your models Init to 1. There is also a section for special weapons where it goes on to describe that some weapons may modify your Init - the example listed directly under this shows how a PFist Seargent goes at Init step 1. This also implies that the unwieldy rule modifies your Init.

If you assume that this is correct, then Banshee Masks make their attacks at Init Step 10 in the first turn (even with Power Axes or moving through cover) - as both have special rules that set your Init, but the Rulebook states that when a direct conflict results between the BRB and a Codex, the Codex takes precedence (no needing to roll off like other set modifier disputes).

Lash Whips/Whip Coils - Assuming you follow my interpretation of the rules above - if you start off the combat in B2B with these models, you will have your Init reduced to 1 and pilein/strike at that Init. If you start the phase not in B2B, then your Init step is determined at the start of the phase and cannot change mid-phase.

Techmarines - Given that HoW has established a precedence of special extra attacks happening without a pile in move - I would suggest this would just be a bonus attack at Init 1 (assuming you are still engaged) with no pile in just as the HoW is a bonus attack at Init 10 without pile in.

These are just my thoughts/logic - and I will predominantly be playing it this way unless my opponent strongly objects to my reasoning or it gets FAQ'd differently.

These are all direct quotes from the rulebook, copy and paste.

any model whose Initiative is equal to the value of the current Initiative step, that isn't already in base contact with an enemy model, must make a Pile In move
(You pile in at your initiative step)

A model is engaged in combat, and must fight if:
• During its Initiative step, it is in base contact with one or more enemy models. etc...
(you check for engagement at your initiative step

Models make their attacks when their Initiative step is reached,
(You attack at your initiative step)

So,the rules say that you pile in, check engagement, and attack, all on your initiative step. The *only* way to follow all of these rules, is if the PFist sgt has an initiative step of 1

HoverBoy wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:What about models that go at two initiatives like techmarines?

He would move in at normal I to make his normal attacks, at I1 he would strike if he can but no pile in.

Why not? After all, he piles in at the step he attacks in. If he attacks in two steps, then he piles in twice! At least that's the natural conclusion.

Thanks guys. I appreciate the input.

"any model whose Initiative is equal to the value of the current Initiative step, that isn't already in base contact with an enemy model, must make a Pile In move
(You pile in at your initiative step)"

Im still not entirely sold that the brackets are accurate (It means something different to me), but it makes the game slightly smoother to play it that way,

Until an FAQ clarifies it, that would be how I would assume it works, though.

Unit1126PLL wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:What about models that go at two initiatives like techmarines?

He would move in at normal I to make his normal attacks, at I1 he would strike if he can but no pile in.

Why not? After all, he piles in at the step he attacks in. If he attacks in two steps, then he piles in twice! At least that's the natural conclusion.

Good point.

Pages 22 and 23 make it clear that, for the purposes of close combat, inititiative and initiative step are synonymous

So you pile in and attack on your init step, meaning if you attack at two different I steps you pile in twice.

That's pretty cool actually.