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So does anyone know much on these missing primarchs, like why they are missing?

From my understanding they were tossed into the warp with the rest of them but never found.

any theory's?

The real answer: No one knows. This is on purpose. GW originally left them blank so that people could make up their own legions if they wanted to. In the Horus Heresy series of novels, there is some indication that the Emperor might have ordered them wiped out. But no one (apart from BL aruthors perhaps) knows if this is the case or not. So basically anything other than what you're reading now is just speculation. Which can be fun no doubt. Again, that was the point.

Do a search for this and you should find a couple that are pages long. I think it would help more than waiting for people to answer your question for the upteenth time

Ignatius wrote:Do a search for this and you should find a couple that are pages long. I think it would help more than waiting for people to answer your question for the upteenth time

I did a search and found that one was given to Freki and one to Geri (as dinner of course)...

DatrhMarko wrote:

Ignatius wrote:Do a search for this and you should find a couple that are pages long. I think it would help more than waiting for people to answer your question for the upteenth time

I did a search and found that one was given to Freki and one to Geri (as dinner of course)...

What. Could you post the link for that?

I found a really nice conceptual artwork for the XI primarch on deviantart, and I tried to make the II one but..
lost steam. Tried to use colors that weren't already originally used in the legions and found grey as the only one really. (I count SW as dark-ish grey blue)

They were girls.....

DatrhMarko wrote:

Ignatius wrote:Do a search for this and you should find a couple that are pages long. I think it would help more than waiting for people to answer your question for the upteenth time

I did a search and found that one was given to Freki and one to Geri (as dinner of course)...

Fair enough. I just like to point it out when I feel that the search would be easier and faster.

I not only know about the lost two legions but the names of there primarchs and legions as well...........................


ready? they are Gog and Magog. They lead the void angels and the nihilum sons respectively. They and their leagions are pariahs and are under control of the void dragon.



LOL I loved that fan fic

Daemonhammer wrote:

Spoiler:

They were tossed into the warp, and will reemerge from it at the dawn of this millennium, when the god emperor of mankind shall rise and with the combined might of 2 space marine legions lead the emperie to a new age

Fan Fiction belongs in Fan Fiction.

EDIT: I think the missing Primarchs were pacifists. They refused to fight the Emperor's wars for him, which they viewed as immoral, so he killed them before the idea could spread to the other Primarchs.

All that is really knowen is that they were reunited with thier legion and then that may have been destroyed by Leman Russ and his Wolves

There's a short story where Dorn enters a room with statues of all the Primarchs. I believe plinths II and XI are vacant, and Dorn contemplates whether their separate tragedies were warnings of the coming Heresy that no one heeded.

That same story also states that there are only twenty people in the galaxy that are Dorn's equal, or something like that - hinting that the two missing Primarchs were still alive at that point.

Maybe?

Lexicanum goes over the hints of what happened to the missing Primarchs really well IIRC.

In one of the heresy novels (can't remember which one) one of the soon to be traitor marines asks if anyone wonders why the ultra marines got a massive influx of marines during one of the teaser conversations about the missing legions. It has been hinted at in various bit of fluff over the last few years that the space wolves were designed by the emperor as a potential legion killing force if needed. And at the end of Prospero burns Russ says that marine killing marine is not unheard of.

Just Dave wrote:Lexicanum goes over the hints of what happened to the missing Primarchs really well IIRC.

This has been retconned, but one of the legions was called the Valedictors according to Lexicanum.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Valedictors

Strong hint that Russ and co put down one of the missing Legions. Also strong hint that UM absorbed another Legion (or parts of one). It could be the same Legion for all we know.

The "GW left them for players to use" is interesting. While they've said as much previously, there are some problems with the fluff.

tgjensen wrote:There's a short story where Dorn enters a room with statues of all the Primarchs. I believe plinths II and XI are vacant, and Dorn contemplates whether their separate tragedies were warnings of the coming Heresy that no one heeded.

That same story also states that there are only twenty people in the galaxy that are Dorn's equal, or something like that - hinting that the two missing Primarchs were still alive at that point.

The 'missing two' according to some fluff have been completely removed from records. Even the traitors don't get that. This seems to imply to me that the missing two are WORSE than the traitors.

This makes it hard for a player to craft a new chapter that is loyalist.

I think the Deleted legions were done so because the emperor may have known that the HH would unfold as eluded to in The Outcast Dead. I think he may have done something similar to what Malcador did to hide the GK during the heresy and the scouring by putting them in a warp pocket until a time they were needed most. So in essence I think there is the possibility of the two lost legions being still active and waiting for their allotted hour to surface and help humanity in its most desperate hour.

Begel Dverl wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Lexicanum goes over the hints of what happened to the missing Primarchs really well IIRC.

This has been retconned, but one of the legions was called the Valedictors according to Lexicanum.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Valedictors

The Valedictors were Andy Chambers' home-made legion. At the time he devised them, it had not become fixed that there were only twenty legions, indeed a number of the "original" legions had not even at that point been named.

DexKivuli wrote:The "GW left them for players to use" is interesting. While they've said as much previously, there are some problems with the fluff.

At the time the missing legions were introduced (Epic Space Marine, 1989) there were in fact three missing legions, all destroyed after Istvaan V, and, as already stated, there was no need for the studio to leave spaces for players to invent their own, since the number of legions was not fixed. Nor indeed had the primarchs yet entered the background - Horus, Russ and Guilliman (the only now-primarchs then named) were just generals.

tgjensen wrote:The 'missing two' according to some fluff have been completely removed from records. Even the traitors don't get that. This seems to imply to me that the missing two are WORSE than the traitors.

This makes it hard for a player to craft a new chapter that is loyalist.

Rick Priestley, in a recent-ish interview has said that his notion at the time of 40k 2E was that the two missing legions had sided with Horus at the opening of the heresy, only to turn back to the Emperor, presumably by making some suicidal gesture of defiance against the Warmaster, and that their expunging from the records would have been a sort of reward, allowing their treachery to be forgotten.

All of these things, of course, are now out of continuity, but it's an interesting insight into the studio's design process. As things stand now, the fates of the II and XI legions are deliberately obscure; Black Library enjoy dropping tantalising hints and hearsay (destroyed by the Space Wolves, joined the Ultramarines), but it's exceedingly unlikely that anybody at GW has any firm idea of what they were or why they were forgotten, or will ever need to devise one. What makes them interesting is the mystery, not the prospect of a resolution.

Begel Dverl wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Lexicanum goes over the hints of what happened to the missing Primarchs really well IIRC.

This has been retconned, but one of the legions was called the Valedictors according to Lexicanum.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Valedictors

No, no, no! Before people start bashing again that the Lexicanum messes things up. There is no mention of the word "legion" in there! It clearly says "CHAPTER". Never forget that the whole primarch and legion stuff was a later addition of GW, in the beginning it was chapters, no superhuman Space Marines and what's not. You can't regard that as being the same continuity. That whole bunch of early Rogue Trader has been very, very retconned. In "valid" canon there is technically no such thing as a first founding chapter as chapters did not exist before the second founding.

I think it's kind of funny in some ways. The 2 missing legions were left unknown so players could fill in the blanks. Yet anyone who does is usually met with much derision.

My unsubstantiated theory is as such: On his quest to reclaim all of his lost sons, the Emperor encountered one Primarch the adamantly refused to swear fealty to his father, and in a great act of defiance, openly attacked the Emperor and his fleet. The Emperor Met the Primarch in single combat that went on for days. Eventually, both combatants were forced to stop from the exhaustion of their duel so as to rest. During their slumber, both were wracked with visions of a great, monstrous threat from beyond the galactic rim. The Primarch saw in his vision that truly only his opponent, the Emperor, could truly prevent the from eradicating all life in the galaxy, but only once he had united all of humanity thought the galaxy. Thus, on the next day, the Primarch pledged himself to his master, the Emperor, and begged that he be allowed to take his forces out into the great void to slow down the Tyranid advance, so that the Emperor would have time to finish his Great Crusade. The Emperor agreed, and wiped the records clean of the II legion, both as punishment, and so humanity would not learn of the extra-galactic threat and panic, before it was ready.

I'm not saying its better than anyone else's theory, but it makes sense to me,

English Assassin wrote:At the time the missing legions were introduced (Epic Space Marine, 1989) there were in fact three missing legions, all destroyed after Istvaan V, and, as already stated, there was no need for the studio to leave spaces for players to invent their own, since the number of legions was not yet fixed. (Emphasis added.)

Commander Endova wrote:I think it's kind of funny in some ways. The 2 missing legions were left unknown so players could fill in the blanks. Yet anyone who does is usually met with much derision.

It's funny how poor some people's reading comprehension is.

the two missing legions existed before the imperium enacted don't ask don't tell..

English Assassin wrote:

English Assassin wrote:At the time the missing legions were introduced (Epic Space Marine, 1989) there were in fact three missing legions, all destroyed after Istvaan V, and, as already stated, there was no need for the studio to leave spaces for players to invent their own, since the number of legions was not yet fixed. (Emphasis added.)

Commander Endova wrote:I think it's kind of funny in some ways. The 2 missing legions were left unknown so players could fill in the blanks. Yet anyone who does is usually met with much derision.

It's funny how poor some people's reading comprehension is.

Not sure what your point is. That may have been true in the past, but it no longer is. There are a fixed number of legions at this point, and two of them were intentionally created as enigmas so players could could fill in the blanks. Perhaps my reading comprehension suffers, but at the very least I am able to move out of the past. You'll also have to excuse me if I glaze over a few insignificant posts.

I had a silly theory that the 11th primarch eventually ascended to godhood as Malice after being "backstabbed" by his brethren.

I heard this. The reason that the spacewolves are still legion sized is that their geneseed cant be used in other marines. The reason for this is because they where created specifically to kill other legions. So the major theory is that they space wolves wiped them out

DexKivuli wrote:

The 'missing two' according to some fluff have been completely removed from records. Even the traitors don't get that. This seems to imply to me that the missing two are WORSE than the traitors.

Is that even possible?

Lobukia wrote:Also strong hint that UM absorbed another Legion (or parts of one).

The short story The Iron Within had an Ultramarine Champion telling loyalist Iron Warriors that Guilliman had a 'plan' - I get the feeling that loyalists from several legions - Iron Warriors, Thousand Sons, etc. - were secretly absorbed into the XIII Legion while everyone else was busy at Terra. That plan obviously involves the Codex Astartes, and perhaps many of the supposedly Ultramarine-descended Chapters are actually descended from loyalists of the traitor legions. After all, what better way to retain the best of the traitor legions than to hide them in the largest of the legions? This of course does not cover the loyalists from the Sons of Horus, Death Guard, and Emperor's Children, as they're all accounted for since Istvaan III and the Eisenstein.

Tadashi wrote:

DexKivuli wrote:

The 'missing two' according to some fluff have been completely removed from records. Even the traitors don't get that. This seems to imply to me that the missing two are WORSE than the traitors.

Is that even possible?

Lobukia wrote:Also strong hint that UM absorbed another Legion (or parts of one).

The short story The Iron Within had an Ultramarine Champion telling loyalist Iron Warriors that Guilliman had a 'plan' - I get the feeling that loyalists from several legions - Iron Warriors, Thousand Sons, etc. - were secretly absorbed into the XIII Legion while everyone else was busy at Terra. That plan obviously involves the Codex Astartes, and perhaps many of the supposedly Ultramarine-descended Chapters are actually descended from loyalists of the traitor legions. After all, what better way to retain the best of the traitor legions than to hide them in the largest of the legions? This of course does not cover the loyalists from the Sons of Horus, Death Guard, and Emperor's Children, as they're all accounted for since Istvaan III and the Eisenstein.

I didn't see that when I read it... but I like it.

Lobukia wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

DexKivuli wrote:

The 'missing two' according to some fluff have been completely removed from records. Even the traitors don't get that. This seems to imply to me that the missing two are WORSE than the traitors.

Is that even possible?

Lobukia wrote:Also strong hint that UM absorbed another Legion (or parts of one).

The short story The Iron Within had an Ultramarine Champion telling loyalist Iron Warriors that Guilliman had a 'plan' - I get the feeling that loyalists from several legions - Iron Warriors, Thousand Sons, etc. - were secretly absorbed into the XIII Legion while everyone else was busy at Terra. That plan obviously involves the Codex Astartes, and perhaps many of the supposedly Ultramarine-descended Chapters are actually descended from loyalists of the traitor legions. After all, what better way to retain the best of the traitor legions than to hide them in the largest of the legions? This of course does not cover the loyalists from the Sons of Horus, Death Guard, and Emperor's Children, as they're all accounted for since Istvaan III and the Eisenstein.

I didn't see that when I read it... but I like it.

Given Rules of Engagement and what we know about Guilliman's actions after the Horus Heresy ended, that plan undoubtedly concerns the Codex Astartes.



A bit vague, but I can interpret this as the traitor legions falling, but the loyalists among them remain are the 'contingency', preserving their legions' talents for the future, and Guilliman intends to make use of them by hiding them in his legion. How many Iron Warrior garrisons were scattered across the galaxy? What of the Fourth Fellowship? Like Dantioch, Arvida and other Thousand Son/Iron Warrior loyalists could have joined up with Ultramarine Champions sent out by the Lord of Ultramar to be hidden away in the XIII Legion and obtain a chance to continue the fight. Certainly better than what 'chances' Malcador and the Inquisition would have given them. More like suicide mission after suicide mission until they bite the dirt. Guilliman is known for not wasting anything, even if doing so takes insane risks - he said so himself.