Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm new to these forums and also pretty new to 40k. Not entirely sure if this is the right place to post this but here goes!

So a couple of friends and I decided to start playing 40k, and I kind of wanted to play Grey Knights. I know they have terrible fluff, Matt Ward etc etc but I think they have sweet models, and their tactics kind of speak to me.

The problem is one of the people I will be playing with a lot is rolling daemons, which is the GK preferred enemy. I guess what I want to know is, will that put him at a huge disadvantage? I don't have a firm enough grasp of the rules to know how much of an advantage my knights would have over his daemons.

Basically, I want to know if the game will still be balanced and fun. I won't be going out of my way to make an anti-daemon list or anything, but I've noticed a lot of daemon hate stuff in their codex, which just can't be helped. I guess this is kind of a weird question, I just don't want to be that guy no one wants to play with.

Grey Knights will always steamroll Daemons pretty easily (unless you play a Henchman list, but even then it isn't a fair fight). Daemons will have the blunt end of the stick rammed up the backside


Basically, people dislike them because they were FOTM for a good while, even after Crons were released, and are still pretty powerful. People also rant and rave in 5th because their stuff was so much better. Better force weapons which ID everything, psychic vehicles, all round psychic defense and Psyflemen Dreadnoughts. Riflemen were bad enough, but now they can glance AV14, ID T4 and can ignore shaken and stunned.


From one Grey Knight player to another, don't listen. Sure it is all that, maybe its powerful, but its your army, and do what you want.

My only advice is go easy on the Daemon Player and try not to take the more powerful choices, unless he is seriously good.



As for your question regarding PE, IIRC it allows you to reroll 1s to hit in combat.

In 6th Ed, PE allows you to re-roll 1's to hit and wound in shooting AND combat.


It is sweeeeeeet!

For the sake of your soul don't play GK. The whole army is so cheeseball you'll get maybe 5 games in before people are just going to stop playing you. Out of the 15 to 20 people in the area that play on a regular basis up here we have 1 guy who still plays GK. Oh, and you'll also be tagged as taking the Easy Button Army. But play what you want, you've been warned.

Deadshot wrote:Grey Knights will always steamroll Daemons pretty easily (unless you play a Henchman list, but even then it isn't a fair fight). Daemons will have the blunt end of the stick rammed up the backside

0_0

Thanks for the reply. That's what I was afraid of. The other player is as new to it as I am, maybe a little less so.

I've been wondering what the design philosophy behind PE is. Why do GK get to faceroll daemons so hard? I mean it makes sense fluffwise, but from a gameplay balance perspective it seems a bit skewed. I could understand it if daemons got something in return, or would otherwise have an advantage, but they don't seem to. Not only are they immune to the daemon stuff, Fear and whatnot, they also get the PE buff.

Not trying to QQ or anything, just curious what the designers were thinking.

As for rolling GK, I was actually on the fence between them and IG anyway, so I might end up going guard after all.

Daemons do get a 5++ across the board now (not sure if they did in 5th ed as well or not).

ignore what people are saying. Your choice of army is entirely up to you.


EDIT: There follows a rant that goes a bit OT. Apologies

I hear what you're saying. I have kind of been flip-flopping between GK and IG since I decided to start playing. I eventually would like an army of each, but I haven't been sure which one to start with. I ultimately settled on GK because their high point costs meant I would have to buy fewer models to get started.

Also I didn't really know the Grey Knights were considered cheesy until after I'd grown fond of them. I like their aesthetic a lot, and having a handful of high cost units is generally how I like to roll.

But if my friend is going to be rolling daemons and I'm going to be playing him like 50% of the time, at least at first, I feel like I'd be ruining the fun for him a bit if I pick an army that's basically tailor-made to take his out. I'd be like Gary from the beginning of Pokemon, always picking the starter that counters yours, and nobody likes that guy.

So yeah, I think it'll be guard to start. I mean, Basilisks. Come on...

Thanks for the replies.

It's all about the manticores...../drool

And most importantly... if you play GK don't ever lose to Daemons. Seriously.

Depends, if they're going to run Khorne heavy or not. They can, or could not sure now, put up a decent fight still. Well compared to the rest of the codex.

Praxiss wrote:Daemons do get a 5++ across the board now (not sure if they did in 5th ed as well or not).

ignore what people are saying. Your choice of army is entirely up to you.


EDIT: There follows a rant that goes a bit OT. Apologies

Spoiler:

if you had decided to go GK because uou had read they were an elite army adn easy to win with , then that's one thing. If you've chosen Gk because you like the fluff or the look of them etc etc then that's your business.

They are not unbeatable, it's just unfortunate that the army is desgined (based largely on fluff) to roll over Daemon armies.

People who whined about Gk are now te same peolpe whining abotu necrons - and yes, they do have soem abilities that are OP. but so does every codex in one way or another.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant but it annoys me when people talk about not playing you just because you field THAT army or THIS list. I (and many other 'cron players) have spent the last 2/3 years having my army ripped apart by BA and SW armies, i finally get my necrons off the shelf with their new codex and am winnign games and now I am TFG?!

i agree with most of what you say, but not every codex can be OP in some way, thats where the problem comes in, some of us play older armies (DA, BT, Eldar) and simply cannot match the cheese point for point of the newer armies.

I'd like to point out something:
In 5e, if one did not actively build list to counter daemons (aka spam Warp Quake all over board), Daemons were actually hard opponents for GK to take, because they ignored one of the largest advantages GK had against many other armies: Huge amount of Force Weapons.

In 6e, I'd say (again, with the same caveat about Warp Quake spam) Daemons should work just fine against GK. Consensus seems to be that Daemons are lot stronger in 6e than they were in 5e, with mishaps destroying unit only 1/6 time and the ability to use multiple Flying Monstrous Creatures, moving vehicles being easy to hit etc.

But while in 5e GK were extremely strong, at least PAGK (power armored GK) builds have gone down a lot in strength because of how game has changed.
Basically while GK are a good army in 6e, Necrons are the top dog. After new Codex, Necrons were top tier army in 5e and are far stronger in 6e than GK ever were in 5e.

Obviously, this is true only until next few Codexes (Codicii?) arrive.

itisknown wrote:I could understand it if daemons got something in return, or would otherwise have an advantage, but they don't seem to. Not only are they immune to the daemon stuff, Fear and whatnot, they also get the PE buff.

That's how it used to work in the 3rd edition Daemonhunters Codex.

Anyhow, if you want to play Grey Knights, play Grey Knights. As long as you don't spam stuff with Warp Quake the Daemon player should have a fair chance of beating you.

Ignore the QQ that people are putting out. GK are not the be all and end all of power armies that they were. Daemons were a far harder fight for GK than 'Nids, for example. They've also lost a low of power in the new ruleset. The typical low model count of GK really is a hindrance too. Play whatever you want to play, don't worry about PE against Daemons.

If the games seem to be all one sided, just play him without using the PE rule to even things up a bit.