Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I normally am one of the guys most familiar with the rules at my local store. So when one of the new players (to both 6th and the hobby as a whole) had a question about movement, I figured I had it sown up fine. Wrong. So I'm looking for help answering one of the most rudimentary questions:

During the movement phase, can you move through your own models?

I could find no text that states anything other than that a model gets its full movment distance. I found nothing with a forum search, and I would really like to point this guy to some text that holds up the way it has always been played.

What I have found:

-I saw no reference to yes or no in the movement phase section.
-There is anecdotal evidence under assaults where it says "you still may not move through friendly models," but where is any other mention of this? But that is under assaults...and not movement.
-Looking in the very front of the book gives no mention, and friendly models are only mentioned under the Line of Sight rules.
-No mention under impassable terrain definition.

What have I overlooked, because it has go be out there, right?

Generally speaking, if the rulebook doesn't say you can do something, you can't do it.

A typo made you contradict yourself Ricter.

It is interesting. I just checked the rules on the Movement Phase and you are right Lysis, the only mention about moving through models is that you can't be within 1" of an enemy model. The rules under the Assault Phase do suggest this is an omission like you say.

Maybe someone else can verify but I think you did your homework on this one right. What a ridiculous printing mistake.

I'm hoping this doesn't come up at my FLGS. My friends are reasonable, but yea... I'm pro-RAW but even I wouldn't feel right trying to argue that you can do that.

Huh, that is interesting... So is there any mention anymore of models being impassable or anything along those lines? (work tends to frown on me bringing my rulebook in and checking this stuff ) So by RAW does this mean friendly models could stack on top of eachother? Can marines hop on top of an unwrecked rhino now? I am by no means advocating this type of play.

It seems that the normal conventions that disallow it (ie you can only go where your base will fit, and you can't move through friendly models) are only spelled out in the assault phase; and written as a re-confirmation. The only problem is that there doesn't seem to be an original statement or rule to re-confirm.

There are a number of statements and rules in the book that assume that rule is in place, and that don't make sense without it.
p.30
"This is an exception to the normal rules for moving that state that a model cannot move through a space occupied by another model."

It refers to the rule... but the actual rule does not exist. It is going to be up to each group to determine if a rule by implication is enough.

cowmonaut wrote:A typo made you contradict yourself Ricter.

I don't think so... anyways, to elaborate, the ruleset is permissive. That means in order for you to be able to take an action (move through your own units) the rules have to say that you can take that action. In this case, the rules don't say you can take the action in question, so you can't.

My apologies. My eyes have thrice glazed over when I got to the word "don't" in your post. Thought you said "if it says you can do something you can't" when you said "if it doesn't say".

Anyways, I think Page 4 has the statement under "own unit"...

Ricter wrote:

cowmonaut wrote:A typo made you contradict yourself Ricter.

I don't think so... anyways, to elaborate, the ruleset is permissive. That means in order for you to be able to take an action (move through your own units) the rules have to say that you can take that action. In this case, the rules don't say you can take the action in question, so you can't.

Where does it say that in the BRB? The "permissive" part.

I would think that if the unit in front were at minimum coherency and the bases of the unit behind them would fit between the front units bases it should be possible. This might just be a fifth edition thing but i know i have a unit assaulted THROUGH another unit. Plus it may not be in the rules but most military units would know how to step out of the way if the guys behind them needed to move forward first. but RL and WH are not very compatable.

40k-noob wrote:Where does it say that in the BRB? The "permissive" part.

It doesn't but it's literally the only sane interpretation.
Permissive means that you're only allowed to do what the rules say, and no more.
If we go with "Restrictive" then you can do anything aside from what the rules say you can't.

Do the rules say you can't win just by declaring "I win."?
Do the rules say you can't win by hitting your opponent with a hammer?
Do the rules say you can't win by trying to observe the state of a cat in a box with poison gas?

We have to use the rules as a permissive set or it's insane.

Ricter wrote:

I don't think so... anyways, to elaborate, the ruleset is permissive. That means in order for you to be able to take an action (move through your own units) the rules have to say that you can take that action. In this case, the rules don't say you can take the action in question, so you can't.

Except it doesn't work that way. It is permissive, but you *have* permission. It says you can move 6". It says to measure that 6" measuring from base to base position...that is all the model is doing. In order to stop that, there needs to be a restriction. Such as: No moving within 1" of enemy. No moving through impassable terrain. No moving out of coherency. etc.

There is no such explicit restriction dealing with moving through your own models.

(As mentioned, there are a number of allusions to such a rule...)

Please do a forum search before posting new threads!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/463062.page