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As part of my ongoing UX & design project “GW In The Digital World“, I’d like to publish here a list of ideas I have for a digital service from Games Workshop.

Your feedback on these ideas is absolutely invaluable, I’d like to polish and update this page depending on your feedback. Please leave as much detailed feedback as you can, I’ll look and respond to any issues or ideas you raise.

Ideally - I'd like your comments on the original post, where you can see comments from other users but a discussion here is pretty great too.

Synopsis:

The march of technology isn’t slowing down, its speeding up. Although the appeal of Games Workshop products is often the fact that it is analogue, physical, some parts of their offerings could be dramatically updated to embrace the possibilities available to us.

I’m suggesting that GW would benefit from building an integrated online rules and army building system that would increase sales, increase player retention and fulfil the needs of their players.

Following a user centred approach I believe the following to be features suitable for the system:

Army Building

1. Build multiple lists (able to copy existing armies and then edit them)
2. Personalised Army Modules. Always take a squad of 5 scouts with a melt gun & a power fist? Make them a named module, add your own name & fluff, drag and drop the module into any army. Share the module with friends so they can use it in their army. Updating the module (say new load outs or fluff) updates every list that uses the module. You could build up a library of as many personalised, bespoke units as you wanted, every time you used them you could update the fluff a little more.
3. Uncommon Units. Suggestions for armies made of unpopular, therefore surprising units.
4. Search for Public lists using common tags. Look through other users lists by tag, e.g. "shooty" "assault" fluffy". Add your own tags to your army.
5. Mark your army as public or private. Public armies can be rated on a scale of 1-5 for things like paint jobs, fluff, interestingness etc.
6. Is this in stock? Referring to the local store that has been set in your preferences, will let you know if there's a box waiting for you at the local GW.
7. PDF export. A clear and well presented document with all important information on for tournament organisers or your opponent.
8. Weirdness Rating. How Unusual is your list? Will it surprise your next opponent? Compares your list to all others across the system & gives you a percentage or a rating.
9. Simple Interface. Configure your units with a large graphical touch (or mouse) interface. As you tap upgrades or options, they're reflected graphically, points sub total updates etc.
10. Upload your own pictures. A default is supplied but for extra personalisation points you can upload your own images, these appear next to the unit in your list.
11. Forum & Sharing Friendly. Lists can be marked public so it's easy to share a unique URL for a list that remains up to date however may changes you make to it.
12. Popularity charts. Just how many other people are playing armies using that unit? What's the most popular way to config that unit?.
13. Allies Support. Bought access to multiple codexes? Write your allies in right there inside the army builder. Haven't got access? See a list of codexes that can ally.



Supporting Features

1. Opponent finder. Find an opponent based on location (opt in in your profile), Decide venue, points etc. before hand and view each others list.
2. Micro Payment Article System. Access to older White Dwarf, Codex & Rulebook articles including scenarios, painting guides, battle reports etc. 50p an article. Monetises the huge back catalogue.
3. New Scenarios & extra missions. Purchased via micro payments, self contained documents you can use in your game. Extra missions would be similar to those recently launched in Imperial Armour Aeronautica. Complete campaigns could be sold in a lump (6 missions, £2.99?) or bought individually. Just like the DLC systems on gaming systems.
4. Tactical View. A ultra cut down gaming view for use on table. Small enough to display on a single screen so you can leave your iPad or laptop open next to the gaming table and see all relevant rules & stats at a glance.
5. Local Information. By setting your local store in your preferences, your news feed contains news & events from that store. In addition, independent gaming stores and local gaming clubs could be included in the list.
6. Famous Lists. Lists by famous GW staff & contributors along with the fluff and stories that go with them. Add the list to your own lists, copy it, adapt it. How about a Nightlords list put together by Adam Dembski-Bowden or a Chaos Cultist list with the fluff written by Dan Abnett? Want to add a Gaunt's Ghosts Imperial Guard insertion team to your list, copy it straight from Dan's.
7. One click purchase of all units in a list. Delivered to your local store (as set in your profile) or delivered to your door.
8. Where's my nearest dealer? Next to the "buy me" button, utilising the HTML geo location functionality, calculates your location and tells you the nearest stockist.
9. Twitter & FB integration. Finished an army and want to tell someone? Hit share.
10. Regular freebies. Rewards for being a subscriber. Painting guides, fluff stories "From The Vault" WD articles.
11. Exclusive content. Subscriber exclusive content
12. Early Pre order (& delivery) opportunities More rewards for subscribing & being a member.
13. Cheaper event tickets. For example Games Day, painting events at GW Nottingham.
14. Easier to test out niche rules. Easy to write & publish a tiny mini codex - maybe something for the Demiurg - half the fluff and unit choices of a regular codex, half the price.
15. Leagues. Everything from running your own 2 man league to the national yearly leagues. Tools to incorporate missions, branching story lines, reminders of games you need to play, messaging opponents and maps presented in a similar way to mighty empires.
16. Actual FAQs. Ever get the feeling that the FAQs aren't the ones you would ask?
17. Paint scheme modeller. Simple 3d tool that let's you 'paint' your own colour choices onto 3d renders of units. Build a library of units you have painted, export or print top, side, above, angled views so you can use them during painting.



Technical

1. Responsive HTML. A Single design that reflows content to fit mobiles, tablets, desktops, TVs, consoles etc.
2. "Retina" screen compatible. High definition art assets that look fantastic on the new tablets & laptops.
3. Linked to Flickr. New images automatically appear in the news feed.
4. Linked to You Tube. New videos from GW will automatically appear in the news feed. YouTube videos should have comments enabled by default.
5. Parental controls. Under 18? You can't use the game match feature or in app purchases.
6. Moderated discussion forums. Quite a number of GW users don;t use forums, in fact only the dedicated do which is how they often don't represent most GW customers.
7. Existing GW store accounts. Email all users and say - hello, you have access.



Payment?

1. Monthly. All you can eat, per game system (40K, Fantasy, LOTR). No charge when a new codex, or supporting book is released.
2. One off cost per book. (codex / army book / publication) Unlimited access until the next one is released.
3. Per book, per month.
4. Xbox Live Style. Free to use, paid to access premium features. Books & downloads charged per unit (just like games & DLC). Paid subscribers also get regular freebies, every month if not more.


General points

1. Digital is happening now. Not next week, or next year. Today. The question is being proactive or reactive. Fans of GW products have already created versions of most of the solutions listed above because GW left a vacuum.
2. This is not GW Books distributed on the internet. It's a total paradigm shift. The current GW publishing model is the shape it is because you can't update a codex you shipped 6 years ago, you can;t put a hyperlink inside a quick reference chart linking to a full rules explanation. Things can happen differently, in a more frictionless way, gamers can be happier and more empowered.
3. Piracy will happen. There again, it already does happen. A PDF of every new codex is available within hours of release. Some people will never pay for content, however if the barriers are low enough, most of them will.
4. Timely updates of content. Paying for a subscription or service should be rewarded by being respected, listened to and serviced on time. No waiting weeks for a change to a sentence. This also helps with piracy, old content would be out of date and not valid.
5. Low Barriers for Entry. If you make it cheap & easier than pirating, people will use the service (Spotify, itunes, Love Film, Netflix, Kindle, IOS, Xbox Live)
6. No separation of fluff and rules. GW Don't see the rules & the fluff as separable, that's why you can't buy a cut down 40K rulebook (I know one comes in the 40K box set, but that also comes with a fluff book). There would not be a cheaper "Rules Only" option.


As I said - any feedback is great, I'd really like to polish this list some more.

accessibility! It is far easier to carry a tablet with wifi or even cellular access (4g, GSM, whatever I am not sure what you guys across the pond use to be honest) or your smartphone than lugging around a massive pile of books. Just be sure to make it accessible (itunes, android, heck pdfs on a website).

My thoughts on each point. Spoiler tagged to avoid text walls.

I thought wish listing was supposed to be done in N&R?

notprop wrote:I thought wish listing was supposed to be done in N&R?

I hope this isn't wish listing - I do this for a living, just decided to do it about something I'm passionate about rather than a new banking system.

I'll be taking the proposals to GW along with community comments & feedback.

Sorry but I'll stick with the books and make my lists with a pencil, paper and a calculator. After working at computers all day it is nice to get back to the basics.

snurl wrote:Sorry but I'll stick with the books and make my lists with a pencil, paper and a calculator. After working at computers all day it is nice to get back to the basics.

Man that's old school but I respect your opinions - after all that's why I play 40K and not Dawn Of War

Do you use any digital tools in your hobbling at all?

Army Building

Aerethan wrote:
6. Is this in stock? Referring to the local store that has been set in your preferences, will let you know if there's a box waiting for you at the local GW.
I'd imagine this would only work with GW stores. An interesting enough idea. Being able to order direct only models through the builder would be interesting.

I don't think there would be any way it could be got to work with any stores other than GW, after all every store has a different EPOS system & stock management - GWs is integrated at least .

I would imagine that all models would be available for the home/store delivery option - as in the Direct Only stuff as well as forgeworld miniatures.

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Popularity charts.[/b] Just how many other people are playing armies using that unit? What's the most popular way to config that unit?.
This would be a great help to new players of that army in understanding what things are considered compulsory options.

Excellent, I didn't think of the new player parts - that's a good idea I'll add that to my third draft of the list.

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Allies Support.[/b] Bought access to multiple codexes? Write your allies in right there inside the army builder. Haven't got access? See a list of codexes that can ally.
Wait what? Now we have to buy each army file separately? Did I miss this earlier in the post? I'm not a fan of this as I tend to write up lists and work out kinks before actually deciding to start collecting the army. This would reduce the number of armies I started as I can't toy around with ideas ahead of time. AB already offers every army in their data files, so convincing people to change from that will be an uphill battle.

Yes - I presume you read further down about the pricing options that I was mussling over - the answer to this question depends entirely on the answer to
that I suppose. Right now in the analogue world for example - you need s space marines codex and an imperial guard codex if you're going to ally the two - this would be the same.

If you want to build a list using two armies - you need access to both codexes somehow, depending on the access model you'd either need to buy each codex, or follow the all you can eat option - what's your preference?


Supporting Features

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Micro Payment Article System[/b]. Access to older White Dwarf, Codex & Rulebook articles including scenarios, painting guides, battle reports etc. 50p an article. Monetises the huge back catalogue.
I don't see this going well. I'll tell you exactly what will happen. 1 person will buy them all, then find a way to upload them and distribute them for free.

No doubt somebody would - but freely available movies and songs don;t stop millions of people paying for iTunes downloads or for NetFlix monthly subscriptions do they? If the barrier to purchase is low enough and the price is low enough - people will buy, it won;t matter that they can be got freely if you dig around enough.

People are generally an ethical bunch, they'd rather pay for things honestly, it's the being ripped off they don't like.

 Aerethan]
wrote:
New Scenarios & extra missions.[/b] Purchased via micro payments, self contained documents you can use in your game. Extra missions would be similar to those recently launched in Imperial Armour Aeronautica. Complete campaigns could be sold in a lump (6 missions, £2.99?) or bought individually. Just like the DLC systems on gaming systems.
DLC can be pirated, this idea is no different. To me, the "dlc" for warhammer are things like campaigns and supplements. No one will pay for scenarios.

And yet people buy DLC in their millions, every single month. Even for open platforms like the PC.

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Local Information[/b]. By setting your local store in your preferences, your news feed contains news & events from that store. In addition, independent gaming stores and local gaming clubs could be included in the list.
Facebook already does this, so it would be redundant unless the software just mirrored the facebook pages.

Not everyone has a FB account (I don;t) and this would be integrated, meaning that it would be easier to find and hook up with new contacts.

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Famous Lists[/b]. Lists by famous GW staff & contributors along with the fluff and stories that go with them. Add the list to your own lists, copy it, adapt it. How about a Nightlords list put together by Adam Dembski-Bowden or a Chaos Cultist list with the fluff written by Dan Abnett? Want to add a Gaunt's Ghosts Imperial Guard insertion team to your list, copy it straight from Dan's.
A good idea on the condition that "GW" lists not be written to feature whatever the new model of the month is. The current lists in WD are terrible and are written as a selling tool, not as themed or competitive lists.

I'd very much see this used to promote stories and fluff, that's what Jervis likes to do and I know the BL authors do as well. Yes it would sell models but hey they deserve to make a living too

 Aerethan]
wrote:
One click purchase of all units in a list[/b]. Delivered to your local store (as set in your profile) or delivered to your door.
An interesting idea to be sure. But if I'm buying online, it's at a discount of 20-30% so good luck competing with that.

If this was true - there would't be a GW shop in the land and they'd have shut their online store down. Most GW sales are via their own website, not via Wayland Games. This would solidify that lead.

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Paint scheme modeller[/b]. Simple 3d tool that let's you 'paint' your own colour choices onto 3d renders of units. Build a library of units you have painted, export or print top, side, above, angled views so you can use them during painting.
This idea I absolutely love. Even if it was its own software I'd likely buy it.

3d models of most kits exist, this would be pretty easy to implement int he unity engine or some open source Javascript library running in th canvas element, could be done today.

Technical

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Linked to You Tube[/b]. New videos from GW will automatically appear in the news feed. YouTube videos should have comments enabled by default.
While I do believe that GW should advertise, doing so to veterans is pointless and likely annoying. GW needs to market to non players. If GW was shoving commercials down my throat I'd quit the software.

I find the videos from forgeworld to be hugely interesting and not at all sales (or professional, adds to the charm) the GW ones on the other hand are sales, and crap. More FW style pls and always enable comments.

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Moderated discussion forums[/b]. Quite a number of GW users don;t use forums, in fact only the dedicated do which is how they often don't represent most GW customers.
GW had their own forums at one point. There is a reason they don't any longer. The problem is that GW would have to be able to accept criticism and not just delete any post that disagrees with something GW does.

It's quite obvious that gamers are having conversations online. GW is not part of those conversations, just because it pretends they do not exist - does not mean they do not exist.

GW Needs to open up, to accept and much more importantly, start responding to criticism.

Their attitude to the internet and social media is prehistoric - they must turn it around for the good of the company and the games we like to play.

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Existing GW store accounts[/b]. Email all users and say - hello, you have access.
more details on this?

Simply that if you already have a GW store account it would be extended to cover your log in to this system - means they could start with 10,000 registered users.

Payment?

Aerethan wrote:
4. Xbox Live Style. Free to use, paid to access premium features. Books & downloads charged per unit (just like games & DLC). Paid subscribers also get regular freebies, every month if not more.
Xbox Live is terrible. Making any content "premium" is a bad idea for GW. This will certainly lead to piracy.

I'm sort of replying to all of your points here but I'll address the Xbox Live thing first.

Terrible? Really? What's wrong with it? As far as I know (and I'm a paid user) it's pretty damn popular and millions and millions of users pay for it every month and buy DLC / games like there;s no tomorrow? What don't you like about it and specifically what don;t you like about applying that system to the GW digital model?


General points

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Piracy will happen[/b]. There again, it already does happen. A PDF of every new codex is available within hours of release. Some people will never pay for content, however if the barriers are low enough, most of them will.
The price would have to be quite low to prevent piracy. Army books weren't pirated often when they were $20. Now a book is more than twice that, and as such far more people download them.

But the people who do pirate - are they really lost sales? Or are they eople who would never have bought it anyway? There's a very strong argument that those users (the ones who would't buy) might as well pirate things as at least they'll probably be buying miniatures.

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Timely updates of content[/b]. Paying for a subscription or service should be rewarded by being respected, listened to and serviced on time. No waiting weeks for a change to a sentence. This also helps with piracy, old content would be out of date and not valid.
In all honesty, if I was paying a subscription, I would want to see rules response according to player demand. If enough people agree that X is broken, X should be changed. If Matt Ward gets to run around willy nilly changing rules as he sees fit without answering to the community, I won't subscribe.

I'd be wholly against player interactions with the rules - I don't want something designed by committee - nothing good ever comes of it. I want to pay professionals to do what, so far, they've been doing pretty damn well.

However if enough people said - "here's £10 for a damn squat codex" that's something very different.

 Aerethan]
wrote:
Low Barriers for Entry.[/b] If you make it cheap & easier than pirating, people will use the service (Spotify, itunes, Love Film, Netflix, Kindle, IOS, Xbox Live)
Exactly this. But also the format matters. Not that many gamers own things running IOS other than iPhones, and I don't want to stare at an iPhone for hours while writing a list.

Personally I'd much rather stare at a screen than paper - but as this is HTML - so anything can access it - IOS doesn;t matter.


---------


Hugely appreciate your comments - I'll be rolling them into my third draft of the ideas document soon (th above is V2)


Now - has anyone else got any feedback?

Well if GW really wanted to embrace the digital revolution then they could offer licenses for people to print miniatures with 3d printers. (I know that the technology is not quite there yet, but it will be sooner or later)

I don't use digital formats of anything during my gaming.

That's kinda why I do it that way. To get away from all of that stuff and back to basics.

I write lists with a codex, pencil and paper.

I use my (admittedly scant) knowledge of art and colour theory (I didn't pay much attention to it at school) to help determine what colours I'm going to paint something (ok, my palette is limited - but I won't use pinks, most greens or oranges in my painting - the colours do not appeal to me and the combination looks like someone just threw up on my models).

If I have a pdf of something, I print it out. Reading the printout is easier for me than reading a screen (even e-paper). I have tried using an ipad for a reading device and decided I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a blunt spoon than do it again.

Then again, I'm not your ideal demographic target for this program as I don't even use AB anymore.

Tetsugaku wrote:


If you want to build a list using two armies - you need access to both codexes somehow, depending on the access model you'd either need to buy each codex, or follow the all you can eat option - what's your preference?

I'd prefer access to all books rather than buying just the ones I wanted. This allows me access to the information I need when facing new opponents and looking for potential threats that I'd need to respond to.


People are generally an ethical bunch, they'd rather pay for things honestly, it's the being ripped off they don't like.
Fair enough.


Not everyone has a FB account (I don;t) and this would be integrated, meaning that it would be easier to find and hook up with new contacts.
Fair enough point, but you also don't need a FB account to see a GW facebook page. I'd rather use the FB account I have already set up for this rather than having yet another system to log in to.


I'd very much see this used to promote stories and fluff, that's what Jervis likes to do and I know the BL authors do as well. Yes it would sell models but hey they deserve to make a living too
I'm all for them promoting things, but faking battle reps to make the new item look unstoppable is stupid. They do this all too often in WD. I'm all for some true gaming reps.


If this was true - there would't be a GW shop in the land and they'd have shut their online store down. Most GW sales are via their own website, not via Wayland Games. This would solidify that lead.
Brick and Mortar stores only real advantage over online stores is the lack of shipping(which is often an offset cost when ordering at discounted prices) and the no wait time for getting your items. The only reason GW online makes any money is from direct only items that they no longer send to independent retailers. Which is fine and dandy, but annoying.


Simply that if you already have a GW store account it would be extended to cover your log in to this system - means they could start with 10,000 registered users.
This makes much more sense now. Fine by me, one less registration I'll have to do in my life.




I'm sort of replying to all of your points here but I'll address the Xbox Live thing first.

Terrible? Really? What's wrong with it? As far as I know (and I'm a paid user) it's pretty damn popular and millions and millions of users pay for it every month and buy DLC / games like there;s no tomorrow? What don't you like about it and specifically what don;t you like about applying that system to the GW digital model?
I really don't understand why people are required to pay for access to something like multiplayer. The feature comes with the game, but then a different company charges you monthly to be able to use that feature. Playstation Network is worlds better. There are free demos, downloadable games for generally low prices, access to network messaging and so forth. All free. Then there is the premium deal where you pay monthly and a bunch of those games are now free to play while subscribed, and you get little perks that the free users don't have like avatars and themes. Multiplayer and online game features are not involved in it at all.
So that is my issue with Xbox Live. It isn't what it offers that I dislike, it's what it is charging for that I dislike. They are charging you to play a game that you already paid for. Every FPS PC game I've ever played has had free online multiplayer. Why on earth would I start paying for that, especially with things like smaller player caps?
So really, my gripes with it don't really apply to the GW model of army building software, unless I have to pay extra to share lists and talk to other users, which would be stupid.



But the people who do pirate - are they really lost sales? Or are they eople who would never have bought it anyway? There's a very strong argument that those users (the ones who would't buy) might as well pirate things as at least they'll probably be buying miniatures.
Fair enough points. I generally do pay for games that I've downloaded and enjoyed. Some games suck terribly and by downloading it I saved myself some money. I don't mind paying for something I am fairly certain I'll like. And I'm not saying people will pirate the software, but rather the content displayed on it. I also understand that most companies have acceptable margins of loss with any product that can be pirated.


I'd be wholly against player interactions with the rules - I don't want something designed by committee - nothing good ever comes of it. I want to pay professionals to do what, so far, they've been doing pretty damn well.

However if enough people said - "here's £10 for a damn squat codex" that's something very different.
I'm not saying rules by committee. But when 99% of players agree that Teclis is overpowered or underpriced, GW should respond to such an issue with a fix. I'm not saying to ADD things to the game based on popular vote. I'm saying to revise certain rules or items that the community deems broken in some manner. In tournaments some items or characters are banned altogether, meaning that at some point that community of players deemed the item or character to be broken in some way.


Personally I'd much rather stare at a screen than paper - but as this is HTML - so anything can access it - IOS doesn;t matter.
Staring at a 19" screen is one thing. Staring at an iPhone for an hour while you try to write a list is a whole different monster.

4. Timely updates of content. Paying for a subscription or service should be rewarded by being respected, listened to and serviced on time. No waiting weeks for a change to a sentence. This also helps with piracy, old content would be out of date and not valid.

This is a difficult thing to balance. WoC tried with DnD 4th with frequent rules updates, and when they went fully to the cloud quite a few customers quit. One thing is to fix a broken rule in a timely manner, on the other hand to nerf units/weapons... because one of the designers is having a tantrum as nobody uses his "cool" stuff, or his army gets tabled on a regular way as in DnD, becomes quite annoying as with this type of subscription services the customer can´t say when (or if) he wants to upgrade to the latest stuff, "we changed this and that power because the design paradigm changed but trust us it´s for the good of the game"

Or God forbid but we are talking about GW here, the worst scenario with autoupdates would be to have the rules changed to boost sales of less well selling miniatures mid edition.


M.

Why not make an official 40k app for iOS? It would be jumping on the bandwagon for sure, and no doubt their British pride would take a hit, but they'd make tons of cash if they had a well- programmed app that not only gave you a full copy of the rules but also included an army builder with functionality meeting or exceeding that which Corvus Belli has achieved with their Infinity army builder (for free).

Smart phones ans tablets are the future. The sooner GW acknowledges and embraces this fact, they more gamers would like them.

It's already trivially easy to pirate all their publications. Why not make an affordable app for 40k that gives real content to gamers?

As far as the bottom line, money, charge a flat rate, one time fee. 20 bucks for the full rule set and army builder app. I'm sure they could come up with a tier system that gave increasing access to content for more money.

Monthly fees are just gonna make digital users see GW even more for the money-grubbing pigs they are, and would likely encourage further piracy of their content. Remember, it's already trivially easy to pirate their entire library of publications.

I'm rambling, but what they really need is an app for iOS that is affordable, one-time price and gives real functionality.

I maintain that limiting the software to IOS drastically limits it's appeal as not everyone uses gadgets running it. Universal coding would sell much better.

Highlighting Lovefilm etc as a payment method is fraught with difficulty. The mother in law works for the CAB and she has numerous clients angry that they can't cancel their subscription.

Also you need to consider that a proportion of customers for the digital product will also by a book.

There are some good suggestions here - such as the player finder - however they are also fraught with difficulty for the company. They could easily find themselves the subject of bad publicity due to child protection issues.

Likewise the forum idea is good in principle, but why would people pay for something they can get for free via internet forums, twitter etc? Also how would it interface with the companies current use of forums?

Tetsugaku wrote:
Following a user centred approach I believe the following to be features suitable for the system:

User centred and GW ? Sure?

Comments added in green:

Tetsugaku wrote:
Army Building

1. Build multiple lists (able to copy existing armies and then edit them)
Depends on the editor and organization of the lists , don't make this pay per use
2. Personalised Army Modules. Always take a squad of 5 scouts with a melt gun & a power fist? Make them a named module, add your own name & fluff, drag and drop the module into any army. Share the module with friends so they can use it in their army. Updating the module (say new load outs or fluff) updates every list that uses the module. You could build up a library of as many personalised, bespoke units as you wanted, every time you used them you could update the fluff a little more.
Share this module how exactly? Defined by user or generally the whole module?
3. Uncommon Units. Suggestions for armies made of unpopular, therefore surprising units.
How do you know what is uncommon?
4. Search for Public lists using common tags. Look through other users lists by tag, e.g. "shooty" "assault" fluffy". Add your own tags to your army.
Access unlimited ? Dunno if the tags work as imagined for the dakka gallery right now, but i see a certain lazyness to put the correct tags on things. A given list of tags supplied?
5. Mark your army as public or private. Public armies can be rated on a scale of 1-5 for things like paint jobs, fluff, interestingness etc.
Again, have a look at the daka gallery and consider how many votes it takes to settle the value there. Would this scale of 1-5 have an example of each rating?
6. Is this in stock? Referring to the local store that has been set in your preferences, will let you know if there's a box waiting for you at the local GW.
without a local GW not so useful ...
7. PDF export. A clear and well presented document with all important information on for tournament organisers or your opponent.
nice
8. Weirdness Rating. How Unusual is your list? Will it surprise your next opponent? Compares your list to all others across the system & gives you a percentage or a rating.
Does this piece of software know my next opponent? Is s/he surprised at all of a shared list?
9. Simple Interface. Configure your units with a large graphical touch (or mouse) interface. As you tap upgrades or options, they're reflected graphically, points sub total updates etc.
nice , if it doesn't reduce usability
10. Upload your own pictures. A default is supplied but for extra personalisation points you can upload your own images, these appear next to the unit in your list.
Upload where? What are personalisation points?
11. Forum & Sharing Friendly. Lists can be marked public so it's easy to share a unique URL for a list that remains up to date however may changes you make to it.
Is there a default mark?
12. Popularity charts. Just how many other people are playing armies using that unit? What's the most popular way to config that unit?.
oh a cookie cutter chart...
13. Allies Support. Bought access to multiple codexes? Write your allies in right there inside the army builder. Haven't got access? See a list of codexes that can ally.
Is it able to handle the expansions still in use too?


Supporting Features

1. Opponent finder. Find an opponent based on location (opt in in your profile), Decide venue, points etc. before hand and view each others list.
So opponents without this digital toy go unseen? The option is nice to have, until it creates a divide.
Clubs may provide a constant supply of opponents that any tracking system may not.
2. Micro Payment Article System. Access to older White Dwarf, Codex & Rulebook articles including scenarios, painting guides, battle reports etc. 50p an article. Monetises the huge back catalogue.
Micro payment sounds so cute...until it adds up to be less micro. Who would pay for a GW batrep?
3. New Scenarios & extra missions. Purchased via micro payments, self contained documents you can use in your game. Extra missions would be similar to those recently launched in Imperial Armour Aeronautica. Complete campaigns could be sold in a lump (6 missions, £2.99?) or bought individually. Just like the DLC systems on gaming systems.
DLC is a bad idea for this. Its what we call "salami-taktik" here. Instead of a complete product, you will get a first batch of something and then must pay to bring it at the same level as products have been before without this.
Looking at GW, they may sell a basic box o'plastic and you can DLC the manual, can DLC the decals and DLC the rules. Plus how to paint it is also DLC.... YAY. And the price of the box is not going down.. double YAY.
4. Tactical View. A ultra cut down gaming view for use on table. Small enough to display on a single screen so you can leave your iPad or laptop open next to the gaming table and see all relevant rules & stats at a glance.
I assume the entry of 1 unit at a time?
5. Local Information. By setting your local store in your preferences, your news feed contains news & events from that store. In addition, independent gaming stores and local gaming clubs could be included in the list.
Independent shouldn't be a 'could be' that depends on GW. Maybe setting a location instead of the 'local' GW store?
6. Famous Lists. Lists by famous GW staff & contributors along with the fluff and stories that go with them. Add the list to your own lists, copy it, adapt it. How about a Nightlords list put together by Adam Dembski-Bowden or a Chaos Cultist list with the fluff written by Dan Abnett? Want to add a Gaunt's Ghosts Imperial Guard insertion team to your list, copy it straight from Dan's.
Why would BL provide lists?
7. One click purchase of all units in a list. Delivered to your local store (as set in your profile) or delivered to your door.
One click is legal worldwide? Sure it sounds easy but wouldn't this need a few limits?
8. Where's my nearest dealer? Next to the "buy me" button, utilising the HTML geo location functionality, calculates your location and tells you the nearest stockist.
ok. Worldwide or just UK?
9. Twitter & FB integration. Finished an army and want to tell someone? Hit share.
Dear God NO.
10. Regular freebies. Rewards for being a subscriber. Painting guides, fluff stories "From The Vault" WD articles.
A list of freebies to choose from or pre-set? Maybe a painting guide to LotR isn't a reward for me..
11. Exclusive content. Subscriber exclusive content
Specify.
12. Early Pre order (& delivery) opportunities More rewards for subscribing & being a member.
Early pre-order vs GW's actual 'we don't tell you policy'. WD subscribers got the reward to wait for their issue a week... seems like a 180° turn here.
13. Cheaper event tickets. For example Games Day, painting events at GW Nottingham.
Games Day has to have content worth attending too to make the discount a plus. As it was, I'd expect to get paid to come at all.
14. Easier to test out niche rules. Easy to write & publish a tiny mini codex - maybe something for the Demiurg - half the fluff and unit choices of a regular codex, half the price.
these mini codices are 'official' ? I'd be all for a return to CA times if these add-ons are available to everyone. If they are digital only and the whole digital line is a expansive gimmick of a minority however...
15. Leagues. Everything from running your own 2 man league to the national yearly leagues. Tools to incorporate missions, branching story lines, reminders of games you need to play, messaging opponents and maps presented in a similar way to mighty empires.
Until running the league takes away from gaming time, ok.
16. Actual FAQs. Ever get the feeling that the FAQs aren't the ones you would ask?
Actual Responses you mean?
17. Paint scheme modeller. Simple 3d tool that let's you 'paint' your own colour choices onto 3d renders of units. Build a library of units you have painted, export or print top, side, above, angled views so you can use them during painting.
Paint a range of colors from a certain supplier or use a 'color wheel' for example?



Technical

1. Responsive HTML. A Single design that reflows content to fit mobiles, tablets, desktops, TVs, consoles etc.
Is there a standard to fit on all of them and still provide the features you are suggesting here?
2. "Retina" screen compatible. High definition art assets that look fantastic on the new tablets & laptops.
New. Define new.
3. Linked to Flickr. New images automatically appear in the news feed.
Why would I want my stuff at Flickr?
4. Linked to You Tube. New videos from GW will automatically appear in the news feed. YouTube videos should have comments enabled by default.
this news feed starts to sound like a marketing feed of the company.. An off switch maybe?
5. Parental controls. Under 18? You can't use the game match feature or in app purchases.
Features are unlocked how? ( hacked by the young ones soon...)
6. Moderated discussion forums. Quite a number of GW users don;t use forums, in fact only the dedicated do which is how they often don't represent most GW customers.
Got dakka. Need no praise the company forum.
7. Existing GW store accounts. Email all users and say - hello, you have access.
ok



Payment?

1. Monthly. All you can eat, per game system (40K, Fantasy, LOTR). No charge when a new codex, or supporting book is released.
10 - 50 - 100 € ?
2. One off cost per book. (codex / army book / publication) Unlimited access until the next one is released.
Again, how much?
3. Per book, per month.
again, price and how do you disable access?
4. Xbox Live Style. Free to use, paid to access premium features. Books & downloads charged per unit (just like games & DLC). Paid subscribers also get regular freebies, every month if not more.
Premium features. Premium? Everything is premium if it is GW. Sure they like to charge per unit. And split up those features so you need to pay for premium to be able to play at all.


General points

1. Digital is happening now. Not next week, or next year. Today. The question is being proactive or reactive. Fans of GW products have already created versions of most of the solutions listed above because GW left a vacuum.
Digital is happening somewhere, right. everywhere on this dirt ball we call home?
2. This is not GW Books distributed on the internet. It's a total paradigm shift. The current GW publishing model is the shape it is because you can't update a codex you shipped 6 years ago, you can;t put a hyperlink inside a quick reference chart linking to a full rules explanation. Things can happen differently, in a more frictionless way, gamers can be happier and more empowered.
So the shift is to give up on printed material? Gamers can be unhappier and excluded of the games this way.
3. Piracy will happen. There again, it already does happen. A PDF of every new codex is available within hours of release. Some people will never pay for content, however if the barriers are low enough, most of them will.
And see the barrier is called money. So your whole post hinges on the cost of it.
4. Timely updates of content. Paying for a subscription or service should be rewarded by being respected, listened to and serviced on time. No waiting weeks for a change to a sentence. This also helps with piracy, old content would be out of date and not valid.
Timely updates of a design team of 3-4 people ?
5. Low Barriers for Entry. If you make it cheap & easier than pirating, people will use the service (Spotify, itunes, Love Film, Netflix, Kindle, IOS, Xbox Live)
The barrier of entry is the device to access it and the complete cost of it. Plus any attempt to keep things regional.
Happens to films and games and such. Plus localization or not.
6. No separation of fluff and rules. GW Don't see the rules & the fluff as separable, that's why you can't buy a cut down 40K rulebook (I know one comes in the 40K box set, but that also comes with a fluff book). There would not be a cheaper "Rules Only" option.
Sure, without fluff its just markers and dice.

To add:
- integrated sub-companies aka FW and BL in this?
- worldwide service or restricted to X ?
- treatment of the physical media already in the hands of the unwashed masses?

chromedog wrote:I don't use digital formats of anything during my gaming.

That's kinda why I do it that way. To get away from all of that stuff and back to basics.

I write lists with a codex, pencil and paper.

Ditto.

If I want to play on the computer - I play a computer game. They do it better already. If I want to play with metal and plastic - I play with metal and plastic.

Most the people I know are the same way. They don't want their gaming to be more connected, they like it to be unconnected. With the exception of things like tutorials and the like for buildings something, there is very little high tech involved...and personally I would prefer it to stay that way.

Aerethan wrote:I maintain that limiting the software to IOS drastically limits it's appeal as not everyone uses gadgets running it. Universal coding would sell much better.

Word.

Someone asked if I use any digital game aids. Other than PDFs of FAQs and revisions, no.

I gotta say this all sounds very interesting but I am apprehensive as to what GW's take on micropayments will be.

snurl wrote:Someone asked if I use any digital game aids. Other than PDFs of FAQs and revisions, no.

I gotta say this all sounds very interesting but I am apprehensive as to what GW's take on micropayments will be.

Well, what do *you* think would be fair?

I think 50p for an old WD article would be a bargain, TBH I'd probably pay more, especially for new content. However the lower the price, the more gets bought and the less piracy there is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sean_OBrien wrote:
Most the people I know are the same way. They don't want their gaming to be more connected, they like it to be unconnected. With the exception of things like tutorials and the like for buildings something, there is very little high tech involved...and personally I would prefer it to stay that way.

You don't think it's going to though do you?

LFG's have got a very, limited life span - they'll be replaced with pure clubs as more and more people use the internet to buy all their modelling stuff and models. Hight streets up and down the western world are dieting a death because people just don;t use them any more. Ecommenrce sales in the UK for example, are increasing 10.5% a YEAR - that's massive. I don;t buy anything in shops any more, not my food, clothes, models, paint, books, video games - it's all electronically ordered..

These suggestions are a way to welcome the inevitable into our gaming lives and retain control of things and if anything make it more social.

Nobody is going to take away your paper codexes just yet, but in a few years time you might find nobody else buys them anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

1hadhq wrote:
User centred and GW ? Sure?

Well - why not? What other approach fits in the world of instant customer services and accidental brand destruction? (FB, Twitter and the wider internet)

1hadhq wrote:
To add:
- integrated sub-companies aka FW and BL in this?
- worldwide service or restricted to X ?
- treatment of the physical media already in the hands of the unwashed masses?

1 - yeah why not, not at first but as it's a community of sorts it would be good to have
2 - worldwide, the internet is useful like that
3 - Nothing - the rule system isn't changing, the books are still valid.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Build multiple lists[/b] (able to copy existing armies and then edit them)
Depends on the editor and organization of the lists , don't make this pay per use

I'd see it as something you could use with as many armies as you had access to.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Personalised Army Modules[/b].
Share this module how exactly? Defined by user or generally the whole module?

Defined by the user I suppose, it would be optional for you to share your awesomely confined module with other people, otherwise it;'s just available from your own library.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Uncommon Units[/b]. Suggestions for armies made of unpopular, therefore surprising units.
How do you know what is uncommon?

By counting them? You'd have exact stats as to what units every single user was using, and how they configged them, getting the stats out of that is childs play.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Weirdness Rating. [/b]How Unusual is your list? Will it surprise your next opponent? Compares your list to all others across the system & gives you a percentage or a rating.
Does this piece of software know my next opponent? Is s/he surprised at all of a shared list?

It *could* know if you set up the games through the system, and you could share though it if you wanted to.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Upload your own pictures[/b].
Upload where? What are personalisation points?

Tot he system so when you look through your armies you can see the pictures and they'd be displayed in your public lists as well.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Forum & Sharing Friendly.[/b] Lists can be marked public so it's easy to share a unique URL for a list that remains up to date however may changes you make to it.
Is there a default mark?

Yes, not sure what, probably private.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Allies Support.[/b]
Is it able to handle the expansions still in use too?

No reason why not, they're still held electronically.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Opponent finder[/b].
So opponents without this digital toy go unseen? The option is nice to have, until it creates a divide.
Clubs may provide a constant supply of opponents that any tracking system may not.

It's optional, not mandatory! You could still have a game with anyone else you wanted, this would just make things a lot easier to set up - think a dating site?

1hadhq wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Micro Payment Article System[/b].
Micro payment sounds so cute...until it adds up to be less micro. Who would pay for a GW batrep?

the same people who buy WD now? How much would you pay for an article of use to you? I think 50p is about the right mark.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
New Scenarios & extra missions.[/b] individually. Just like the DLC systems on gaming systems.
DLC is a bad idea for this. Its what we call "salami-taktik" here. Instead of a complete product, you will get a first batch of something and then must pay to bring it at the same level as products have been before without this.
Looking at GW, they may sell a basic box o'plastic and you can DLC the manual, can DLC the decals and DLC the rules. Plus how to paint it is also DLC.... YAY. And the price of the box is not going down.. double YAY.

But it would mainly be access to the existing article from the back catalogue? It's a way of keeping your gaming fresh and interesting and making sure you don;t keep playing the same stuff - DLC on consoles done properly is a huge success and sells in it's millions, why would;t it here?

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Famous Lists[/b]. Lists by famous GW staff & contributors along with the fluff and stories that go with them. Add the list to your own lists, copy it, adapt it. How about a Nightlords list put together by Adam Dembski-Bowden or a Chaos Cultist list with the fluff written by Dan Abnett? Want to add a Gaunt's Ghosts Imperial Guard insertion team to your list, copy it straight from Dan's.
Why would BL provide lists?

Why would't they? Follow Adam Dembski-Bowden on Twitter? the man never stops going on about his hobbying! They do get paid by GW you know

 1hadhq]
wrote:
One click purchase of all units in a list[/b]. Delivered to your local store (as set in your profile) or delivered to your door.
One click is legal worldwide? Sure it sounds easy but wouldn't this need a few limits?

Why? GW ship worldwide and if you're grown up enough to have a bank card you're grown up enough to be trusted with one surely?

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Twitter & FB integration[/b]. Finished an army and want to tell someone? Hit share.
Dear God NO.

You might not be a fan but they do just so happen to be quite popular (I've heard)

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Exclusive content.[/b] Subscriber exclusive content
Specify.

EG Free DLC the same way Xbox Live Gold works.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Easier to test out niche rules. [/b]Easy to write & publish a tiny mini codex - maybe something for the Demiurg - half the fluff and unit choices of a regular codex, half the price.
these mini codices are 'official' ? I'd be all for a return to CA times if these add-ons are available to everyone. If they are digital only and the whole digital line is a expansive gimmick of a minority however...

Of course they'd be official, they'd be from GW?

And I don't think this is a minority thing - in 5 years this would probably be the vast majority of players, maybe less.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Paint scheme modeller[/b]. Simple 3d tool that let's you 'paint' your own colour choices onto 3d renders of units. Build a library of units you have painted, export or print top, side, above, angled views so you can use them during painting.
Paint a range of colors from a certain supplier or use a 'color wheel' for example?

There isn't a snowball in hells chance of them being anything other than GW paint colours and you know it, nor should it be.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Responsive HTML[/b]. A Single design that reflows content to fit mobiles, tablets, desktops, TVs, consoles etc.
Is there a standard to fit on all of them and still provide the features you are suggesting here?

Yes (HTML) it just needs to be designed well.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
"Retina" screen compatible[/b]. High definition art assets that look fantastic on the new tablets & laptops.
New. Define new.

Anythign above 300 PPI is classed as "retina" although it's Apple's buzzword it applies to most things, the Nexus 7 is…. sort of. Still works on older stuff it's just with the new high res screens you need to ship more than one version of each picture, it;'s complicated.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Linked to Flickr[/b]. New images automatically appear in the news feed.
Why would I want my stuff at Flickr?

Well I put all my stuff on Flickr, you ne=ver look at GW's group? great source of inspiration.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Linked to You Tube[/b]. New videos from GW will automatically appear in the news feed. YouTube videos should have comments enabled by default.
this news feed starts to sound like a marketing feed of the company.. An off switch maybe?

Considering you're the one defining it - yes of course

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Moderated discussion forums[/b]. Quite a number of GW users don;t use forums, in fact only the dedicated do which is how they often don't represent most GW customers.
Got dakka. Need no praise the company forum.

But if the community is handled properly it would have any valid criticisms still on it? The problem is that GW don't involve themselves in the conversation so massive obviously untrue rumours start and they don;t quash them.

Fact - GW is cheap, they don;t screw players around and they're a bunch of nice people, in store and in HQ - but they have no knowledge of modern communication methods - makes them look like idiots.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Monthly[/b]. All you can eat, per game system (40K, Fantasy, LOTR). No charge when a new codex, or supporting book is released.
10 - 50 - 100 € ?

What would you pay? I was thinking £5, £9, £13.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
One off cost per book[/b]. (codex / army book / publication) Unlimited access until the next one is released.
Again, how much?

Again What would you pay? Considering the options and features I think £25+ would be a fair price.

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Xbox Live Style.[/b] Free to use, paid to access premium features. Books & downloads charged per unit (just like games & DLC). Paid subscribers also get regular freebies, every month if not more.
Premium features. Premium? Everything is premium if it is GW. Sure they like to charge per unit. And split up those features so you need to pay for premium to be able to play at all.

What's wrong with a premium service? You don't have to pay if you don;t want to or can't?

 1hadhq]
wrote:
This is not GW Books distributed on the internet.[/b]
So the shift is to give up on printed material? Gamers can be unhappier and excluded of the games this way.

At first it's side by side with print - in 5 years, most people will be using this - technology, it gets faster, much much faster - how fast will your home internet be in 2018? How big your TV? How fast your laptop?

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Piracy will happen[/b]. There again, it already does happen. A PDF of every new codex is available within hours of release. Some people will never pay for content, however if the barriers are low enough, most of them will.
And see the barrier is called money. So your whole post hinges on the cost of it.

It does, that's why I'm asking opinions

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Low Barriers for Entry.[/b] If you make it cheap & easier than pirating, people will use the service (Spotify, itunes, Love Film, Netflix, Kindle, IOS, Xbox Live)
The barrier of entry is the device to access it and the complete cost of it. Plus any attempt to keep things regional.
Happens to films and games and such. Plus localization or not.

Why would it be regional? Nothing GW does now is regional?

+ The cost of a smartphone - is right now, literally 0 - they're given away free with 12 month contracts costing £15 that include 500Mb, or even unlimited data. Over the next few years the ubiquitousness of these devices will be total.




As always - a huge thanks for your opinions.

Tetsugaku wrote:

3 - Nothing - the rule system isn't changing, the books are still valid.

Your suggestions aren't without changes and/or add-ons to the rules and thus, the physical copies are left behind.
GW sells physical copies of their publications. They are not suppliying a digital copy for everything soon, so you have both formats around. The books you call valid, become incomplete compared to the digital versions. So you have to deal with this issue.
GW stores sell physical copies and if they had to carry digital ones they had to provide the devices to run them too.
You got a life cycle of these devices, a rather short one compared to the life cycle of an edition of let say wh 40k.
Have GW to have a partner to repair them? To replace them if no longer available? To update them? Or if youre unlucky they tie these devices they provide to their product, to reduce piracy , to generate sales for their partners, etc.
So if the imagined digital product its really portable and not locked to certain partnerships, fine.
I'd like to bring up one thing again, localization. Happening or not? GW actually doesn't do this with their digital versions, just the physical copies.

1hadhq wrote:
Your suggestions aren't without changes and/or add-ons to the rules and thus, the physical copies are left behind.
GW sells physical copies of their publications. They are not suppliying a digital copy for everything soon, so you have both formats around. The books you call valid, become incomplete compared to the digital versions. So you have to deal with this issue.
GW stores sell physical copies and if they had to carry digital ones they had to provide the devices to run them too.
You got a life cycle of these devices, a rather short one compared to the life cycle of an edition of let say wh 40k.
Have GW to have a partner to repair them? To replace them if no longer available? To update them? Or if youre unlucky they tie these devices they provide to their product, to reduce piracy , to generate sales for their partners, etc.
So if the imagined digital product its really portable and not locked to certain partnerships, fine.
I'd like to bring up one thing again, localization. Happening or not? GW actually doesn't do this with their digital versions, just the physical copies.

Current books get "left Behind" in the same way if they don;t have the latest FAQ printed out and stuck inside them don;t they?

Why would GW have to provide hardware to anyone - confused? This is an open HTML based system, your android phone will work, your IOS tablet, your samsung tv?

Localisation? Of course, why not? That's just set as a language choice, you could even decide to use the french codex if you wanted.

Tetsugaku wrote:You don't think it's going to though do you?

Actually - pretty sure it will.

A lot of different attempts have been made on this same basic path. Trying to make old things (board games, wargames, card games) neat, hip and digital. In general, if they keep the old aspects (the physical parts) they fail to launch. It is an anchor. If they leave behind the old elements - well, then they are no longer the old elements and they become a video game. Again, for the vast majority of the people I know who play physical games now, they do so entirely for the ability to get away from everything you mention (most specifically another person staring at their device while they should be paying attention). They spend all week dealing with various people who can't get away from their phones, pads and other devices - having to avoid running them over in the streets - dealing with them in line at stores. The game to unplug.

Ones who don't want to unplug...well, they tend to gravitate towards online games with leader boards and the like. Facebook junkies who throw around Farmville invites, tweaking FPS gamers, MMORPG gamers and all the other groups (including...in case you have missed it...strategy gamers).

The rest of it just sounds like anyone of a dozen marketing pitches which I sat through listening to someone explain how to take advantage of the new economy. Even the obligatory keywords and catch phrases are in place.

Just my observations both as a customer and someone who has been on the receiving end of the sales pitch.

Current books get "left Behind" in the same way if they don;t have the latest FAQ printed out and stuck inside them don;t they?

Which is problematic already (and will become even more problematic). Used to have people who would have just the Codex playing against people with the Codex and a version of the FAQ. Now, not only will you have the Codex, the FAQ and the digital version (which may or may not be the updated digital version) you will also have the types who will tweak things. Just a little change here or there within the rules can make a big difference. Don't think it will happen? Never underestimate the underhandedness of the cheater.

While not interested in digital content from GW, I am even less interested in sitting around comparing date codes to figure out which rules are the most recent or checking MD5 hash numbers to see if the rules in question are actually legitimate.

+ The cost of a smartphone - is right now, literally 0 - they're given away free with 12 month contracts costing £15 that include 500Mb, or even unlimited data. Over the next few years the ubiquitousness of these devices will be total.

Sound a whole lot like my wife.

The cost of a smartphone is not $0. They have actually factored the hardware cost into the contract. I would type it out again...but it has been done already:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2012/06/14/bgcom-techlab/AskcWIPBv1qccvmqIx7DmK/story.html

Regarding the penetration, don't know. I remember similar ideas for the Blackberry when it was king...never happened. It is doubtful that anything will get the same level of market penetration as a basic cell phone. Too many options, too many choices and by the time you think you have it figured out - what you were doing is old news.

Tetsugaku wrote:

 1hadhq]
wrote:
Moderated discussion forums[/b]. Quite a number of GW users don;t use forums, in fact only the dedicated do which is how they often don't represent most GW customers.
Got dakka. Need no praise the company forum.

But if the community is handled properly it would have any valid criticisms still on it? The problem is that GW don't involve themselves in the conversation so massive obviously untrue rumours start and they don;t quash them.

Fact - GW is cheap, they don;t screw players around and they're a bunch of nice people, in store and in HQ - but they have no knowledge of modern communication methods - makes them look like idiots.

There's a reason that GW no longer has an official forum. That reason is player/customer criticism. Instead of moderating it in a fair and mature manner, they decided to take their ball and go home and just shut them down. They got tired of deleting posts and threads with any criticism in it.

Platuan4th wrote:
There's a reason that GW no longer has an official forum. That reason is player/customer criticism. Instead of moderating it in a fair and mature manner, they decided to take their ball and go home and just shut them down. They got tired of deleting posts and threads with any criticism in it.

That doesn't make it any less wrong - they should be engaging with their customers, most ignoring them, the customers will have the conversation, with them or without them, they should be having it with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more feedback the better.

Sean_OBrien wrote:
A lot of different attempts have been made on this same basic path. Trying to make old things (board games, wargames, card games) neat, hip and digital. In general, if they keep the old aspects (the physical parts) they fail to launch.

I totally agree. This isn't a replacement of any of the parts of the game, not a single one, it's upgrading and future proofing the parts of it which can be and should be handled digitally. I have a wednesday gaming night, we play board games, it's all analogue, the way we want to keep it, physical, tangible. The rule books and list writing? That's not a physically social thing tho, you don;t need to have the physical rulebook or codex in front of you - just the data itself.

Sean_OBrien wrote:
The rest of it just sounds like anyone of a dozen marketing pitches which I sat through listening to someone explain how to take advantage of the new economy. Even the obligatory keywords and catch phrases are in place.

Could you give me any examples? Remember this is phrased as a pitch to GW and is deliberately supposed to maintain their position as the distant leader in tabletop war-games far into the future. What sounds bad? What sounds good?

Sean_OBrien wrote:
Which is problematic already (and will become even more problematic). Used to have people who would have just the Codex playing against people with the Codex and a version of the FAQ. Now, not only will you have the Codex, the FAQ and the digital version (which may or may not be the updated digital version) you will also have the types who will tweak things. Just a little change here or there within the rules can make a big difference. Don't think it will happen? Never underestimate the underhandedness of the cheater.

While not interested in digital content from GW, I am even less interested in sitting around comparing date codes to figure out which rules are the most recent or checking MD5 hash numbers to see if the rules in question are actually legitimate.

So considering it's already happening - what do we do?

In this scenario, the digital version would always be the most up to date version, the master version, it could;t help but be anything else.

As for cheating - how could someone change the data on a remote web site?

Hugely appreciate your time and look forward to your feedback

Tetsugaku wrote:So considering it's already happening - what do we do?

Don't make it worse.

Tetsugaku wrote:In this scenario, the digital version would always be the most up to date version, the master version, it could;t help but be anything else.

As for cheating - how could someone change the data on a remote web site?

If you can't figure out how people manage to crack the online server codes for $5000+ design software...rerouting an HTML lookup is something that is a cakewalk. Of course that is ignoring the various aspects regarding offline use.

There are still big chunks of the world which are offline, outside of coverage areas and people who just don't want to waste their data plans connecting to a book server. They will not be interested in a product which they need to be connected in order to use (either wifi or cell). If it is offline, I can access it. If I can access it, I can change it.

I am beginning to realise that I am not selling this as well as I could, that in itself is a huge thing to learn because as I mentioned, I'm doing this to get better at my job and if I'm not getting the enthusiasm I feel, from the people I tell (about 20% of people "get it") then I am failing - must try harder

Describing a bleeding edge, future proofed web app with advanced social interaction and data manipulation is hard, I think I might need some graphics to go with it

Tetsugaku wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:
There's a reason that GW no longer has an official forum. That reason is player/customer criticism. Instead of moderating it in a fair and mature manner, they decided to take their ball and go home and just shut them down. They got tired of deleting posts and threads with any criticism in it.

That doesn't make it any less wrong - they should be engaging with their customers, most ignoring them, the customers will have the conversation, with them or without them, they should be having it with them.


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The more feedback the better.

If you notice, I never said they shouldn't. The problem isn't that they can't, it's that they won't. GW don't give a rat's ass about feedback, it's why they dropped their external playtest groups.

That's why we invented the whole "ivory tower" joke about them years ago.

Sean_OBrien wrote:

Tetsugaku wrote:So considering it's already happening - what do we do?

Don't make it worse.

But it's…. already there?

Sean_OBrien wrote:
If you can't figure out how people manage to crack the online server codes for $5000+ design software...rerouting an HTML lookup is something that is a cakewalk. Of course that is ignoring the various aspects regarding offline use.

I think you are sorely mistaking "possible" with "would ever happen", this is a single service, only served online, multiple people would have access to the core, correct data, how should you cheat? Why would you cheat?

Sean_OBrien wrote:
There are still big chunks of the world which are offline, outside of coverage areas and people who just don't want to waste their data plans connecting to a book server. They will not be interested in a product which they need to be connected in order to use (either wifi or cell).

There are? Where? Will they be there in 12 months time? I doubt it. You don't have unlimited data transfer where you are? If you don;t now, do you think it will be long before you do?

Sean_OBrien wrote:
If it is offline, I can access it. If I can access it, I can change it.

It's not. Cloud stuff is here, now, and isn;t going. Continuous, unlimited, fast ubiquitous connections to the net are here right now and will only multiply.


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Platuan4th wrote:
If you notice, I never said they shouldn't. The problem isn't that they can't, it's that they won't. GW don't give a rat's ass about feedback, it's why they dropped their external playtest groups.

I did notice - they should still change, they still *must* change if they are to survive in this brave new connected world we live in.