Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello Dakka. A friend of mine who goes by the name of Daemonhammer has posted a thread regarding my all assault Codex: Blood Angels army. Now, I do admit I done this a while ago regarding a friend who plays Tau but I've completely changed my stance as what's the point of ruining the game simply so you win? The whole game is based around the concept of getting together with your friend(s) to enjoy the hobby, and have fun, utlimately to have fun and not too bash your friend(s). Well, this has annoyed me slightly as he's trying to take the fun out of the game and we talked the other day (yesterday in fact I think) and he mentioned he has all these tactics and methods and not to mention he's tailored his army list to crushing me, and yeh as I said it's annoyed me. It's irritating to see that he values utterly defeating me over the entire principle of, well, fun!

So, Dakka I employ you with the task of aiding me in defeating this 'friend' of mine who so wishes to crush me. Any tactics, maneuvres, or units I can field to stop him?

Play someone else? Hit him with the rulebook?
You haven't mentioned what force you're using, what's available, points ect. Bit of info would help.

Your simplest approach would be "Play another style entirely from the one he's tailored his list to beat'. Say you are all 'descent of angels' backed up by some razorbacks? Switch it up to death company foot-sloggers and mephistron. Or something like that, just change what you bring so he doesn't know what your tactic is until game-time.

Trying to 'counter' his counter isn't likely going to end up with happy moments for either of you; personally i'd chalk his post up to indicate that you are good at army-building, and then show him what 'else' you can do.

grendel083 wrote:Play someone else? Hit him with the rulebook?
You haven't mentioned what force you're using, what's available, points ect. Bit of info would help.

Oh yes excuse my manners grendel. Basically I'm aiming on a large Descent of Angels force, jump pack marines, death company, the odd stormraven and stormtalon here and there, a very assault oriented army to match the style I like best. In september I'll be purchasing 20 Assault Marines with Jump Packs, 20 Death Company on foot, 2 Stormravens (which will hopefully cart the DC on foot), a Chaplain or Reclusiarch depending on how I want him, and my Master. We haven't decided on points or anything because we haven't played I would just like advice on how to beat his shooty SM army seeing how he wants to purposely and solely crush me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neorealist wrote:Your simplest approach would be "Play another style entirely from the one he's tailored his list to beat'. Say you are all 'descent of angels' backed up by some razorbacks? Switch it up to death company foot-sloggers and mephistron. Or something like that, just change what you bring so he doesn't know what your tactic is until game-time.

Trying to 'counter' his counter isn't likely going to end up with happy moments for either of you; personally i'd chalk his post up to indicate that you are good at army-building, and then show him what 'else' you can do.

Hmm ok, I think I know what you mean. Say I'm fielding one thing and field a completely different thing. I can see much appeal in a DC army led by Astorath and then backed by Mephiston so that's definitely a tactic I'd use at some point. Any other ideas perhaps?

It's a tau player, all you have to do is get into melee. Your choice of how to do that though.

Get one death company model into base contact.

A squad of 8 fire warriors will on average, do .19 wounds to a death company squad in close combat.

Mind you, you have to overcome their firepower to do this both in the shooting phase and the overwatch, but if you get a single death company model into assault, you're probably gonna win.

No no no, I think you guys are a little confused sorry if I wasn't a little clearer earlier on. I said I am seeking a counter using an all assault BA army against a shooty vanilla SM army that my friend Daemonhammer is fielding, I am seeking help because he has already done so with me and it has took the fun out of it when he occasionally said 'oooh i have a counter for your ....' and such, I mentioned the Tau part as I said although I admit I attempted this route with a friend who plays Tau I saw the hatred and bad in it that will ruin the fun aspect of the game.

Most of the advice still stands. He's strong in shooting, so get in assault where you will have the advantage. Fielding a completely different list will also probably cause problems.

well all shooty lists are pretty weak on the assault so assault him. The thing is we gave him advice on a couple units to deploy and a few tactics but there isn't really a way to absolutly counter your list because if he listened to all our advise he'd have to run a apocolipse list to fit all the diffrent tactics we gave him. If I'm guessing correctly you guys aren't the most veterane of players so he might just take our advise at face value and run a full shooty list. This will result in him getting steam roled when you assault him.

So to sum it all up, unless you're talking about countering Chaos anything ( the answer is GK btw) there is no real "counter" because a shooty list wont always beat an assaulty list if the assaulty guy knows what he's doing and the shooty guy doesn't.

in regards to tactics personally I'd suggest a few deep striking units like terminators to tie up his shooters while you close the distance with your CC specialists...use a good amount of cover and don't get baited into bad assaults that leave you're guys out in the wind.

crimsonfist832 wrote:Hello Dakka. A friend of mine who goes by the name of Daemonhammer has posted a thread regarding my all assault Codex: Blood Angels army.[...] Well, this has annoyed me slightly as he's trying to take the fun out of the game and we talked the other day (yesterday in fact I think) and he mentioned he has all these tactics and methods and not to mention he's tailored his army list to crushing me.[...]

Seriously man? I was not asking for an army list for a counter but tactics against such an army, the only thing ive bought since that post was a Land Raider which i was going to get anyhow.
Considering ive yet to play you it would be to tailor an army against you and your heretical chapter.

Also you did admit you did the same to that mentioned tau player so why the heat?

again

'friend' huh? why the quotation marks?

Daemonhammer wrote:

crimsonfist832 wrote:Hello Dakka. A friend of mine who goes by the name of Daemonhammer has posted a thread regarding my all assault Codex: Blood Angels army.[...] Well, this has annoyed me slightly as he's trying to take the fun out of the game and we talked the other day (yesterday in fact I think) and he mentioned he has all these tactics and methods and not to mention he's tailored his army list to crushing me.[...]

Seriously man? I was not asking for an army list for a counter but tactics against such an army, the only thing ive bought since that post was a Land Raider which i was going to get anyhow.
Considering ive yet to play you it would be to tailor an army against you and your heretical chapter.

Also you did admit you did the same to that mentioned tau player so why the heat?

again

'friend' huh? why the quotation marks?

The plot thickens!

BA vs shooty SM is simple. Get in CC and wreck his face. Shooty SM vs BA is also easy. Shoot them BEFORE they get in CC, then get out as fast as you can to shoot some more.

Daemonhammer wrote:

crimsonfist832 wrote:Hello Dakka. A friend of mine who goes by the name of Daemonhammer has posted a thread regarding my all assault Codex: Blood Angels army.[...] Well, this has annoyed me slightly as he's trying to take the fun out of the game and we talked the other day (yesterday in fact I think) and he mentioned he has all these tactics and methods and not to mention he's tailored his army list to crushing me.[...]

Seriously man? I was not asking for an army list for a counter but tactics against such an army, the only thing ive bought since that post was a Land Raider which i was going to get anyhow.
Considering ive yet to play you it would be to tailor an army against you and your heretical chapter.

Also you did admit you did the same to that mentioned tau player so why the heat?

again

'friend' huh? why the quotation marks?

Meow!

Ok, I think you've both gotten good enough advice about the game, my advice here is going to be this: It's a game. Remember that. Don't fall out over it, no ne is actually going to die over it.

Use it for what it is meant for: To chill out and have fun.

Allow me to weigh in with a few pointers -

Against foot units, aim to get into combat as quickly as possible - Vanguard are great for this, take 10 men and split them into combat squads if you can afford it. Each separate unit can drop down very close, charge immediately and stop that unit from shooting you at all, so try and pick out the obvious heavies like Devastators or Thunderfires. Do be careful what you tie up as there are a few shooty units that are good in assault as well (in this case, Terminators and Dreadnoughts).

Definitely Death Company. These can expect to be shot up a lot so you can't afford to footslog bolter ones across slowly. This leaves a few options:
1) Stormraven, great unless he's taking anti-air
2) Land Raider, could possibly get shot up early, but see my next general point...
3) Jump packs, expensive but in my eyes worth it.

That single lone Land Raider is liable to be the target of every lascannon, Vindicator and melta weapon going - against a shooty army, it's not likely to last long enough to get you into charge range. So take two! One might get shot down but you'd be very unlucky to lose both, and that means getting a great unit into combat in relative safety. You can also use these two to block a large chunk of line of sight to the rest of your army.

Lastly, make sure you take a Librarian with Shield. You're likely to face high AP fire given the list tailoring so the cover saves will be very useful.

My final point is on this...

Hmm ok, I think I know what you mean. Say I'm fielding one thing and field a completely different thing.

Nope - NOT a good idea at all - this is deceptive and unfun, which will only make the opponent feel worse about you. What I believe was meant was to simply not state what you're taking at all, then you just show up with a different army to what your opponent is expecting.

Super Ready wrote: You're likely to face high AP fire given the list tailoring so the cover saves will be very useful.

Yea right. Tailoring. Okay.