Rich Hiding 21 Trillion Dollars Off Shore

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**WarOne**

That is a disgustingly large figure for those seeking to evade taxes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500395_162-57477527/report-worlds-rich-hide-at-least-$21t-offshore/

(CBS News) With about 55,000 inhabitants, the Cayman Islands should not be a well-known name in the rest of the world, but the tiny Caribbean territory has become famous as a tax haven for the world's super rich. According to a new report, the Caymans - along with the other dozen or so international havens for wealth like Switzerland and Bermuda - are the holders of so much of the world's capital, entire regional economies could be moved on it.

The Tax Justice Network has just released a report estimating that the world's tax havens house anywhere from $21 trillion to $32 trillion of money that governments cannot tax.

"This offshore economy is large enough to have a major impact on estimates of inequality of wealth and income; on estimates of national income and debt ratios; and - most importantly - to have very significant negative impacts on the domestic tax bases of 'source' countries," James Henry, the report's author and a former chief economist at consultancy McKinsey told the Guardian.

The problem of money leaving countries to avoid the tax man is not just reserved for the world's economic powers. The amount that has left developing countries for tax havens could have been more than enough to pay off their debts to the rest of the world, The Guardian reports. About $800 billion has left Russia since the early 1990s.

As staggering as the large sum of money hiding offshore is, there is only a relatively small number of people holding it. Henry estimates that just 92,000 people, or about .0001 percent of the world's population, owns about $9.8 trillion of it.

Additionally, as governments the world-over struggle with inadequate tax revenues, the problem appears to be getting worse. The last time there was an estimate of the amount of money hiding in offshore accounts in 2005, The Wall Street Journal reports the figure was around $11.5 trillion.

**Frazzled**

I'll take 1%. I'm not greedy.

**Relapse**

Hey Fraz, let me know when you go to collect. I love the scuba diving down there.

**Jihadin**

Nice...goes well with people renouncing their US Citizenship when their 5 yrs current on their US taxes

**Horst**

This is why we need capital punishment for tax fraud / financial theft in excess of 1 billion dollars.

**Ma55ter_fett**

Horst wrote:This is why we need capital punishment for tax fraud / financial theft in excess of 1 billion dollars.

While it would be heart warming to see them hang it wouldn't put a dent in the numbers who do it.

Half the reason they commit fraud/theif is because they think their smart enough to get away with it.

**purplefood**

Annex the Cayman islands...
You could also outlaw hiding money and fine those who do. Then repeal the law a few months later and use the money to pay of your debts...
Simple.

**Piston Honda**

is anyone surprised?

Would have thought the estimation would be a lot more.

**sebster**

Meh, people avoid tax. Everyone does it. Telling someone else they shouldn't avoid tax is just pissing in the wind.

This issue then becomes one of preventing the Cayman Islands from continuing to work as a tax haven. Like any issues of international diplomacy, this isn't an easy thing to achieve, and is of course made harder by all the rich people in the US lobbying to prevent this happening.

**mattyrm**

No big deal.. I figured it would be higher frankly.

**Melissia**

sebster wrote:Meh, people avoid tax. Everyone does it.

That is a false assertion.

**Albatross**

purplefood wrote:Annex the Cayman islands...

The Caymans are a British Overseas Territory, as is Bermuda.

Maximum Trolling!

**purplefood**

Albatross wrote:
purplefood wrote:Annex the Cayman islands...

The Caymans are a British Overseas Territory, as is Bermuda.

Maximum Trolling!

So...
Damnit...
We already own it but kinda don't...
I knew we should have kept the Empire...

**Melissia**

It's okay, I'm sure we can work outa deal with the British government when 21-32 trillion dollars is involved.

Just sayin', goodbye national debt, hello investment in national infrastructure.

**Albatross**

purplefood wrote:
Albatross wrote:
purplefood wrote:Annex the Cayman islands...

The Caymans are a British Overseas Territory, as is Bermuda.

Maximum Trolling!

So...
Damnit...
We already own it but kinda don't...
I knew we should have kept the Empire...

Where do you think all the money went? The Empire didn't disappear, it just privatised.

**purplefood**

Albatross wrote:
purplefood wrote:
Albatross wrote:
purplefood wrote:Annex the Cayman islands...

The Caymans are a British Overseas Territory, as is Bermuda.

Maximum Trolling!

So...
Damnit...
We already own it but kinda don't...
I knew we should have kept the Empire...

Where do you think all the money went? The Empire didn't disappear, it just privatised.

Well that was a silly idea...
Maybe we can nationalise it again?
That said the current government doesn't seem to keen on that...

**MrDwhitey**

You dirty socialist purple. I'll quote clint eastwood here.
"you'll always be poor"

**purplefood**

MrDwhitey wrote:You dirty socialist purple. I'll quote clint eastwood here.
"you'll always be poor"

And no matter how poor i get i can still burn your house down with you inside. Smiley face

**MrDwhitey**

Reported for life threatening behaviour.

**purplefood**

Did you not see the smiley face?

EDIT: Anyway where you live it wouldn't stop raining long enough for a fire to catch...
I'd have to set up some kind of giant brolly...

**Testify**

Horst wrote:This is why we need capital punishment for tax fraud / financial theft in excess of 1 billion dollars.

Because that works so well at reducing corruption in China?

Albatross wrote:
Where do you think all the money went? The Empire didn't disappear, it just privatised.

It was always privatised http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

On topic, one of the upsides of globalisation is that gak like this should become more and more difficult. The rich seriously need to pay their taxes, it's help the western economies greatly.

**MrDwhitey**

You know very well I did not report you. It's also really sunny lately here.

**purplefood**

Yeah i do

It's a trap. Sunny for a day. Monsoon the day after.

We may be dragging this topic OT slightly...

**Jihadin**

I'm more in line of getting a much bigger return on my raxes by claiming whatever I can. Example is all the 40K models, codex's, novels, and whatever else is related to the hobby in my return. Everquest/WoW into my return...all of it legal to.

but I will not avoid paying my taxes

**Melissia**

Testify wrote:Because that works so well at reducing corruption in China?

You realize that there are plenty of reasons why China is still corrupt, that have nothing to do with the harshness of its punishments?

**Noble713**

As staggering as the large sum of money hiding offshore is, there is only a relatively small number of people holding it. Henry estimates that just 92,000 people, or about .0001 percent of the world's population, owns about $9.8 trillion of it.

$9.8 trillion / 92,000 people ~=$106 million in financial assets per person.

Wiki lists the global population with a net worth (and net worth tends to be significantly higher than liquid financial assets owned) >=$30million as ~93,000. So virtually every Ultra-HNWI on the planet must have an account with $100 million even if their actual net worth is significantly lower (due to debt, etc.). Sounds fishy to me.

Let's cut out the billionaires and recalculate. Again, wiki states $4.6trillion held by ~1,200 billionaires. We'll remove them and count their net worth as actual financial assets and remove it too.

So, new calc: $5.2 trillion held by 90,800 ~= $57.2 million per person. Which STILL means virtually every Ultra-HNWI has in excess of their entire net worth sitting in a bank account offshore somewhere.

This just doesn't sound correct. I'm eager to see the raw data.

**streamdragon**

Why in the world are you using reported worth and assets in a thread about trillions in hidden/sheltered money?

**Kilkrazy**

I wouldn't call a person with 100 million ultra-high net worth.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean Posh Spice is worth $50 million or something like that.

**Noble713**

streamdragon wrote:Why in the world are you using reported worth and assets in a thread about trillions in hidden/sheltered money?

El Chapo Guzman is often listed as a billionaire when his assets surely go unreported. It stands to reason that to compile those "# of millionaire/billionaire" lists research groups use data beyond just income reported to the tax man. It gives us a ballpark figure for a baseline for assessing the proliferation and size of individual tax cheats.

Kilkrazy wrote:I wouldn't call a person with 100 million ultra-high net worth.

*shrug* It's not my definition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_net_worth_individual

**Kilkrazy**

They call people with $1,000,000 ultra high net worth?!?!?!?

That's loose pocket change by the standards of real rich people.