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I friend of mine has a pretty complete necron army - at least he had when the new codex hit. Meaning he a bunch of heavy and normal destroyers, legions of warriors, three monoliths, flayed ones, pariahs, scarabs, one or two spiders, a C'tan and a Necron lord plus a hand full of wraiths. No immortals as far as I know. He now is getting back into the game, and I'd like to be able to give him some advice.

As I know about as much about necrons as an ork needs (da choppa goes into da metal 'ead, not da green 'ead), I have absolutely no clue on how to build a list, let alone an army.
So, what now? Or more specific:

1) Where should he take his army, and what should he get next? Looking for a path which reuses as many models as possible.
2) Cryptecs are all the rage, obviously, but how about necron lords? Do necron squads need a leader in the first place, or are they just additional wounds for their cryptecs?
3) Gauss or Tesla on Warriors?
4) Is there any use for C'Tans other than annoying orks with dangerous terrain?
5) Are destroyers useful? How about heavy destroyers? Is there a point in mixing them?
6) What special characters are useful? Which one should you avoid at all cost?
7) Immortals or Warriors? I've seen most of my necron opponents use a single units of immortals to hold objectives, but is this the way to go?
8) He is pretty fond of his destroyer lord, is there a way to make good use of it? I realize it doesn't get a council.
9) What are Pariah models now used for? He already declined poisoning his neighbors dog with them.

Thanks in advance for any help

There's a tiny problem; Monoliths are the same slot as Spyders, so you can't take "all" the models.

1) A few new things that are rather good: Ghost Arks, Catacomb Command Barge, Night Scythes, Deathmarks, and Triach Stalkers. The first three are Transports (yay!) and the last two are Elite slots of doom. Particularly, the Deathmarks are great at hunting specific targets, and Triach Stalkers allow your army to TL their shots on anything it shot at.

I'd also like to mention Doom Scythes, but they take Heavy Support, as do the Spyders and Monoliths. Since you want to use as many older models as possible, I do not recommend them. That said, they are incredibly powerful.

2) Lords are good for Res orbs. Crypteks are rather amazing, especially Lance Tek. The necrons squads you attach them to are both additional wounds and punch. That and the more you take in your necron squads, the better you're chances of NOT getting your unit wiped.

3) Warriors can only take Gauss, so no issues there. Gauss is great at tank hunting.

4) They're customizable; not useless, but they're competing for slots with Lychguard and Deathmarks and Triach Stalkers. If that's not an issue, "build them" as needed.

5) T5 makes them relatively harder to kill, though not by much. Stick a Destroyer Lord for PE, and upgrade them to Heavies

6) Most special characters in the Necron Codex have some use. Some are more powerful than others. It really depends on your army list, but you can't really go wrong with Zahndrekh or Imotekh.

7) It depends on style. Phalanx of warriors with a Necron Lord with Resurrection Orb is rather difficult to remove, short of wiping it out in melee. Take them in a pack of 20 on foot, 9 if in Ghost Ark. In the latter case, consider taking a Cryptek; all that firepower is going to murder tanks.

8) Definitely. DEFINITELY. Destroyer Lord gives PE to anyone in his unit. Stick him in a pack of Wraiths and put him in the front; as an IC, he can spread wounds around to the Wraiths, who take LOS saves on 3+ invul. This is rather hard to kill at range, and the DL is good in challenges.

9) Lychguard with Warscythes. They're good at killing I1 models and vehicles.

Argh, nevermind that.

Destroyers have Preferred Enemy(Everything) without attaching a Destroyer Lord. That said, they're middling. The 260 point unit of 3 heavy, 2 regular isn't too bad? 78% chance to hit with BS4, re-rolling 1's. Keep them at max-ish range. If you've got enough threat overload, they'll be fine in your backfield.

Pariah's also make a reasonable Cryptek stand-in, with a small bit of conversion work to their old style weapon. I use them as Storm-Tek's, which are fantastic. (4 S5 haywire shots, 12" range).

Ghost Ark's compliment the warriors nicely. If you've got a large group of warriors on foot, the rez orb is nice.

If he's got money to buy a thing-or-two, I'd recommend an Ark, and maybe the Barge Kit. The old Necron Foot Lords are the same models as the Lords now, so he can re-use that.

Wraiths, even the old pistol ones, are great, if his Destroyer Lord has no orb, he'll work well with them.

Nothing wrong with a C'Tan, I like to keep them cheap when I use 'em.... If he takes all three monoliths, Lord of Fire might be a fun upgrade to have, give something for those melta's to think about.

Barge kit comes with an Overlord.... not much else to add here?

So basically get a surfboard lord, put those warriors into arks and get some fancy staffs for the pariahs to make them cryptecs is all it takes to bring him back into the game? I think he will like that.

He can then go from there I guess.

I'd appreciate any further elaboration on the new CCB, backed up with actual experience of using it. Right now, I don't see myself really taking it anymore as once it hits melee, it's most likely to get blown up anyway in turn 1 unless facing vehicles. And for its point cost and the fact that your OL is likely to die too after his ride blew up...it's rather "meh" to me.

Convince me please

Jidmah:

Since he's fond of the Destroyer Lord and has some Pariahs he's wanting to convert, hears my advice:

Grab a box of Lychguard/Triarch Praetorians.
Make a squad of Triarch Praetorians with either weapon option (Rod of Covenant is more versatile, but Voide Blade/Particl Caster just shreads vehicles). Run these guiys with the Destroyer Lord.
Use the Sword and Board weapons to convert the Pariahs to Sword and Board Lychguard.

That's what I did with mine at least. Its a super easy conversion, and a little green stuff on the wrist joints should fill in any gaps easily.

Sigvatr wrote:I'd appreciate any further elaboration on the new CCB, backed up with actual experience of using it. Right now, I don't see myself really taking it anymore as once it hits melee, it's most likely to get blown up anyway in turn 1 unless facing vehicles. And for its point cost and the fact that your OL is likely to die too after his ride blew up...it's rather "meh" to me.

Convince me please

Quite frankly, the sweep attacks are where it's at; the ability to charge and get HoW attacks, and a 2+ vs CC attacks without paying for SW is just the Icing on the cake. Remember that it cannot be locked in combat, and that with it's speed it will rarely be in a combat you don't want it to. The front and side AV coupled with symbiotic repair make it one of the toughest transports in the game.

ShadarLogoth wrote:Jidmah:

Since he's fond of the Destroyer Lord and has some Pariahs he's wanting to convert, hears my advice:

Grab a box of Lychguard/Triarch Praetorians.
Make a squad of Triarch Praetorians with either weapon option (Rod of Covenant is more versatile, but Voide Blade/Particl Caster just shreads vehicles). Run these guiys with the Destroyer Lord.
Use the Sword and Board weapons to convert the Pariahs to Sword and Board Lychguard.

That's what I did with mine at least. Its a super easy conversion, and a little green stuff on the wrist joints should fill in any gaps easily.

Ah, Now I'm going to step in and say use the Voidblade/Particle Caster on the Triarchs, leave the Pariahs as Warscythe Lychguard as they look almost identicle, and use the RoCs on Deathmark Bodies as Crypteks. They look good, that's how i converted my Teks

I ALWAYS field at east 3 heavy Destroyers. With terminator armour being so hard to kill now you need all the AP2 weapons you can get, and they get to re-roll 1's to hit and wound!

I used my metal Pariahs as conversion fodder for Crypteks.

get a couple of Anni Barges. They are too good not to have IMHO.

Praxiss wrote:I ALWAYS field at east 3 heavy Destroyers. With terminator armour being so hard to kill now you need all the AP2 weapons you can get, and they get to re-roll 1's to hit and wound!

I used my metal Pariahs as conversion fodder for Crypteks.

get a couple of Anni Barges. They are too good not to have IMHO.

This.

Heavy Destroyers might be slightly overpriced right now (Skyfire + Interceptor pleeeeeease!), but they are extremely reliable and flexible. Even heavy tanks must be scared. Furthermore, they are awesome vs. that dreaded DC - no armor save, no FNP, nothing. A wound = a dead tin can.

Usually running 2 Barges + 1 squad of HD.

Exactly. My "must takes" tend to be;

3 Heavy Destroyers
2 Annihilation Barges
6 (minimum) Scarabs

In a 2k pont gme the other day i took 2 squads fo 3 Heavy D's and they spent the entire game hopping around with each other, taking out squads of Sangunary Guard in one round of shooting. they are expensive, but they certainly deliver.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sigvatr wrote:Heavy Destroyers might be slightly overpriced right now (Skyfire + Interceptor pleeeeeease!), but they are extremely reliable and flexible. Even heavy tanks must be scared. Furthermore, they are awesome vs. that dreaded DC - no armor save, no FNP, nothing. A wound = a dead tin can.

Usually running 2 Barges + 1 squad of HD.

Can't see Destroyers getting either of these (although it would be SWEEET). Having Jump infantry packing a Lascannon that re-rolls 1's to hit and penetrate armour that also hits Flyer at normal BS will proble be looked upon as OP.

Heavy destroyers are still 60 points for a 1 wound model with a 3+ save. They're okay, but they aren't "Must Haves"

They are a 60 point modelthat can move 12", fire a S9 AP2 gun another 36" and re-roll 1's to hit an wound (and with S9 the chance of not wounding on a 2+ is fairly slim).

I see them as a must take in 6th Ed (admittedly more in a shooty army than a CC one) is because the 'Crons dont have a lot of other stuff that deny 2+ armoru saves.

Isn't 2 S8 Melta shots that grant your whole army twin linked on that target for just over double the price *way* better... all while not eating up Fast Attack Slots for the clearly superior .... everything else in Fast Attack?

They aren't terrible, like they were in 5th, but that unit takes crushing losses to even small-arms fire. It only takes one loss to feel the pain.

Too much of a glass-cannon, IMO. If you can keep it at range, I guess it's good.

loreweaver wrote:Isn't 2 S8 Melta shots that grant your whole army twin linked on that target for just over double the price *way* better... all while not eating up Fast Attack Slots for the clearly superior .... everything else in Fast Attack?

They aren't terrible, like they were in 5th, but that unit takes crushing losses to even small-arms fire. It only takes one loss to feel the pain.

Too much of a glass-cannon, IMO. If you can keep it at range, I guess it's good.

Those Melta shots only have 24" range, which is a big difference. And if you're firing 2x Melta shots, then TLing the rest of your army against that target is probably moot, as the Melta likely finished it off. The exception being transports, which are typically low AP such that Melta is no more useful than is Str 9 from the Heavy Destroyers.

Talking about Triarch Stalkers and glass cannons...

WIth the AP change to the vehicle damage chart and the stalker being open topped, I'd say it's MUCH more of a glass cannon than the destroyers.

Sure, there's a bunch of weapons that won't hurt the stalker from the front or sides but it really only takes one to get it off the table. As opposed to destroyers and heavy d's that can get cover a little easier, have RP, and can take more than 1 shot (well, barring bunched up and getting hit with a large blast).

To be fair, I don't see any reason to field Triarch Stalkers exactly for the reasons you listed above.

Sure, melta is good. Too bad this means that you have to be in melta range as well...and have fun getting hit just to see your enemy smile as he rolls on the vehicle damage chart, only to get a +3 (!) bonus.

Furthermore, 3 Heavy Destroyers are about the same price and got a longer range and more resilent to shooting along with being more mobile and, let's not forget about it, they aren't a GIANT walking spider that everybody can see from everywhere...and thus shoot at.

Not to mention that I could also pack 2 Annihilation Barges at the same price (+/-).

Look cool, play terrible (by Necron standards). Guess our elite slot will remain empty often.

Sigvatr wrote:
Guess our elite slot will remain empty often.

Deathmarks.... Granted the despair tek is where the real damage is but still!

Sigvatr wrote:To be fair, I don't see any reason to field Triarch Stalkers exactly for the reasons you listed above.

Sure, melta is good. Too bad this means that you have to be in melta range as well...and have fun getting hit just to see your enemy smile as he rolls on the vehicle damage chart, only to get a +3 (!) bonus.

Furthermore, 3 Heavy Destroyers are about the same price and got a longer range and more resilent to shooting along with being more mobile and, let's not forget about it, they aren't a GIANT walking spider that everybody can see from everywhere...and thus shoot at.

Not to mention that I could also pack 2 Annihilation Barges at the same price (+/-).

Look cool, play terrible (by Necron standards). Guess our elite slot will remain empty often.

This is the primary reason I'm building my second (yes, second) stalker as a twin linked heavy gauss variant instead of the melta. Honestly, even though I have issues with many of our vehicles (I still love the liths) I like to field non-standard lists just to see how I do. I pretty much only play against my friends but they have a good variety of armies so I really never know what I'm going up against, but I generally do pretty good against them. Since the new dex has come out I've only lost....1 game, and it was the first one I played with the new dex.

I'm gonna keep the Heat Ray for it's versatility. Melt that tank, the occupants wont have the firepower to shoot you down then Flame it @ S5. Against your average Tac MEQ

IHateNids wrote:I'm gonna keep the Heat Ray for it's versatility. Melt that tank, the occupants wont have the firepower to shoot you down then Flame it @ S5. Against your average Tac MEQ

Oh, I have the heat ray on my first one.

Kevin949 wrote:

IHateNids wrote:I'm gonna keep the Heat Ray for it's versatility. Melt that tank, the occupants wont have the firepower to shoot you down then Flame it @ S5. Against your average Tac MEQ

Oh, I have the heat ray on my first one.

Cool.

Anyone got any views on the third one, the Pie Launcher whatchamacallit

IHateNids wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

IHateNids wrote:I'm gonna keep the Heat Ray for it's versatility. Melt that tank, the occupants wont have the firepower to shoot you down then Flame it @ S5. Against your average Tac MEQ

Oh, I have the heat ray on my first one.

Cool.

Anyone got any views on the third one, the Pie Launcher whatchamacallit

Particle...something lol.

I think it's more intriguing in 6th, as it's decent for busting up transport parking lots, and you can twin linked anything it hits, allowing you to stretch the love on the targeting array.

I think that is its only purpose. S7 AP4 Pie wont do a lot, but tl everything vs those targets makes it worth 10 points

The only Elite unit i can see myself taking are the Deathmarks.

As has already been said - the Heavy D's are around the same price and more mobile, easier to hide, get RP, longer range......

The Lychguard and Praetorians are ok if you have the points and have a CC element to your army to support them.....

AV 13 is not more fragile to shooting than a T5 3+ save model. It's fairly easy to get a stalker cover, he only needs 25% on his one facing.

You can melta some terminators to make your guass warriors or tesla immortals twin-linked and do some damage to the rest of the squad.

If a Triarch Stalker gets hit by a S9 lascannon, it's glanced on a 4 (doesn't supress me), pen'd on a 5 or 6, it gets +2 on the results (+1 OT, +1 AP2).

For a Melta Gun to be in melta range, I need to be within 6" or 12" for a multi-melta. I'm pretty sure I can stay19-24" away from everything on the board with a Melta weapon, even with only 6" of movement. (Just move straight back)..

However, you're poor destroyers are going to die at 24" do that same melta, or just die outright to a lascannon, or even a lowly bolter. 10 tactical marines at 24" have a good chance of taking out your 60 point 1 wound model.

---

I'm not saying they're bad, but I can have 2 Triarch Stalkers with AV13 that aren't easy to kill (I've played them a lot, never lost both in the same game) for 300 points, or 5 destroyers with 3 Heavy Guass for 260. I'm taking the stalkers 100% of the time. There's 2, so they can shoot at different things, and they improve the shooting of the rest of my army.

The 60 point model has a 36" range, 48 with movement. Plus they still get their RP rolls if one survives. The stalker gets one lucky hit or 3 glances on it, and it's gone. Has a max 42 inch range if you take the heavy gauss instead of the melta.

Remember, weapon type (str or AP) doesn't matter for RP rolls anymore, so lascannons (though they wouldn't have last edition either) won't "kill them outright", they just don't get an armor save. But it's still just one shot and it could miss outright.

I like the stalkers (triarch, not tomb), believe me. But destroyers definitely have their place in the army as well (especially with the change to pref enemy).

*edit*
actually, why don't you (or someone) put a stalker up against a squad of destroyers. Or two stalkers up against a squad of destroyers. Add in heavy's if you want. Fight them against each other and see how they do.

Kevin949 wrote:
actually, why don't you (or someone) put a stalker up against a squad of destroyers. Or two stalkers up against a squad of destroyers. Add in heavy's if you want. Fight them against each other and see how they do.

The Stalkers should lose 100% of the time, as the destroyers stay at their longer effective range.

Necrons are about synergy. I'm not saying Destroyers are bad, I *am* saying, that in most cases, Triarch Stalkers have more to offer a Necron force. If you're taking Ghost Arks that can put out 30 shots on one side of the vehicle, twin-linking those shots can be amazing. Say you're shooting at a unit of 5 terminators.

The Stalker shoots, kills 1. The Ghost Ark shoots, gets 26 hits (BS4 twin linked is ~88%), 13 wounds, kills 2 more termies.

If it's 3 Heavy Destroyers (30 points more, but whatevs), you get 2 hits (~77% chance to hit with BS4 Preferred Enemy), one dead termie (2+ wound, 5++ save for the termies, one of those dice has a good chance of saving a termie, 55% chance for one to live should you wound with both). The Ghost Ark shoots, gets 20 hits, 10 wounds, kills one more termie, maybe two.

---

Just because something has "Melta" in the title, doesn't mean you have to shoot it at a vehicle for it to be effective. :-)

I'd like to re-re-re-iterate. I don't think Destroyers are bad.

---

I'd like to point out also, that Armour 13 isn't the easiest thing to Glance or Pen. What do you expect people to shoot at? How much anti-tank is on the board? A Lascannon is only glancing on a 4, and I'll likely be able to grab a cover save now. If my opponent is shooting at the stalkers, they aren't shooting at the ghost arks, CCB's, Wraiths, or Annihilation Barges. AV13 didn't get easier to deal with in this edition. As I've said, I've taken 2, and never lost more than one in a game, they always out perform for their points.

Back to your buddies necrons.

The wraith+DLord combo is really powerful at the moment. I'd get some guitar wire and try to add whip coils to some of his wraith models.

With 3 monoliths, a foot list would be pretty good synergy. I would recommend a few Nightscythes to go with this foot approach, as it can put troops exactly where you want them, and then has great dakka the rest of the game. The troops can later be teleported back through one of the monoliths afterwards, if necessary.

As far as immortals vs. warriors, I find that it's a toss-up if you want to run them with gauss weapons. Immortals with Tesla are good for anti-infantry, and holding objectives. They are tough, and have a surprisingly hurtful overwatch volley. For instance, a unit of 10 will get 5 overwatch hits on average. Given that your friend has legions of warriors, I think it isn't necessary to invest in more immortals.

A while ago, someone asked about the CCB. I have to say I am a BIG fan. For 1, it can hit flyers with a sweep attack. 3 shots with 4+ to hit, 7+2d6 to penetrate, and AP 1. It also ignores cover saves. If you happen to be in range, there is no more reliable way to deal with flyers. Another flyer with 2 TL multimeltas comes close, but then the target gets to evade and take jink saves. (I took down 2 vendettas in a singe game this way. Sold me on the barge for sure)

The sweep attack also allows for precision hits, so you can deal with special weapons that way. It used to be that you could snipe sergeants out of units, but now with LOS!, it's much less likely.

Charging is unlikely to kill the Overlord or Barge if you're smart about who you charge. You should not charge TH/SS termies. You can likely take on a TAC squad. MC's and Lone Wolves are sitting ducks when you consider an Olord with MSS.