Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello Dakka!

We've got our next event coming up in a couple weeks at Game Empire! Throughout all the tumult of the new edition and subsequent running around screaming getting dirt in our hair, I'm doing my best to make sure that the regular events I run are a place of calm amidst the storm. The last one went off without a hitch and we had 26 players, which ain't bad for a local event! Everyone had a good time and learned a lot, we gave out some cool prizes, and I learned a lot about what I want to see in this Brave New World (tm). With all that in mind, here is the tournament format I will be using for my events here in the shop for the time being. Please feel free to co-op this in whole or part... It works for us!

*******************

The Game Empire 6th Edition Warhammer 40,000 Tournament Standard(tm)

Player Responsibilities
Players must bring their army and all necessary gaming supplies such as dice, tape measure, tokens, and templates. Players must have a copy of the core 40k rulebook and their relevant Codex(es). Players must bring five copies of their army list printed or legibly hand-written. One of these will be handed in to the TO, one is for the player's reference, and one each is to be given to the player's opponents before each game.

Terrain
Terrain for all tables is pre-set before the event by the TO. Terrain may not be moved by players, with the exception of trees on forest templates being moved to accommodate models within the template.
Rules for specific Buildings and any Battlefield Debris will be notated for the tables on which they are present

Fortifications
All fortifications are allowed. Fortifications may be placed by the owning player anywhere in their table half after determining deployment zones such that it does not overlap any pre-set terrain. Players may request a TO shift pre-set terrain to accommodate placement of larger pieces such as the Skyshield Landing Pad and Fortress of Redemption. The TO's adjustment of pre-set terrain in this case is final for the duration of the game.

Allies
Allies are allowed. Allies must be clearly notated as a separate section of a player's army list.

WYSIWYG, Proxies, Counts-as, and Conversions
What You See Is What You Get is the rule. All wargear elements, weaponry, and optional equipment must be clearly modeled. However, competent conversions and clearly delineated counts-as army elements are allowed at the TO's sole discretion and, if allowed, must be fully explained to your opponent before the game begins. Proxies are not allowed. Players must contact the TO prior to the event for approval of an army with extensive conversions or counts-as elements.

Scenarios & Deployment Type
The scenarios and deployments for each round will be pre-determined by the TO. In some cases, the number of objectives for the various objective-based missions will be pre-determined as well. If this is not the case players will roll randomly to determine the number of objectives at their table for the game. The TO will ensure that scenarios are not repeated if possible given the number of rounds in the event, and that if scenarios must be repeated that they use differing deployments. All scenarios and deployments are played from the 40k rulebook on pp. 118-119 and 126-131, with the following modifications:

Hammer and Anvil Deployment: In the case of a room layout where tables are set up end-to-end, Hammer and Anvil deployment may be replaced by Spearhead Deployment at the TOs discretion. In Spearhead deployment, players set up in opposite table quarters, with no model deployed within 12” of the center of the table. A player's table edge is the long table edge on which their deployment zone lies.

The Scouring: Each player must place at least one objective in the no-man's-land between deployment zones.

The Relic: The Relic scenario will not be played in most normal events.

Secondary Objectives
All Secondary Objectives (Slay the Warlord, First Blood, and Linebreaker) are included in each scenario unless otherwise specified.

Starting the Game
At the beginning of each round, Players will use the following sequence to begin each game:

1. Exchange army lists and fully explain any conversions or counts-as elements in their armies.
2. Roll to generate the number of scenario objectives if necessary.
3. Roll off for objective placement and place objectives as described in the 40k rulebook on p. 121.
4. Roll for deployment and first turn.
5. Set up all Fortifications.
6. Determine Warlord Traits and Psychic Powers.
7. Deploy armies and begin the game.

Warlords and Warlord Traits
Warlord Traits must be rolled before armies are deployed. Players may choose which chart (Command , Personal, or Strategic) to roll on each game, and may choose different charts between games. During the Purge the Alien scenario, a roll of 6 on the Personal Traits chart must be re-rolled. Each player must clearly specify which model is his Warlord during deployment.

Psykers and Psychic Powers
After determining Warlord Traits, players who are generating Psychic powers from a discipline randomly must do so. Generating powers is done openly as explained in the 40k rulebook on p. 418. Players must consult their relevant codex or FAQ to determine their models' Psychic Mastery level and the number of powers they can generate. If a player elects to have their Psyker generate powers from disciplines in the main rulebook instead of using the powers available to them in their codex, the psyker must generate all of their powers from disciplines in the main rulebook, and may not mix and match powers from their codex and disciplines from the main rulebook.

A Note on Warp Charge Tokens: Players must place appropriate counters or tokens next to their Psykers during the game to represent Warp Charge.

Reserves
In missions that use reserves, players must clearly explain the organization of their reserves to their opponent, including which units are in reserve, which characters are joined to which units if any, and which units (with any attached characters) are embarked on which transports.

Seize the Initiative
Players may attempt to Seize the Initiative in all games.

Mysterious Terrain
Mysterious Terrain may be included at the TOs discretion, if not, all terrain is mundane for the duration of the event. If so, all Forests, Jungles, Woods, Rivers, Lakes, and Pools are Mysterious Terrain as noted in the 40k rulebook on pp.103-104. If Mysterious Terrain is used, once the special rules for a type of terrain has been determined each game, all terrain of that type will follow the same rules for the duration of the game.

In some cases, a specially themed table will have elements of terrain pre-determined; if so these rules will be specified at the table, no random roll is required.

Mysterious Objectives
Mysterious Objectives may be included at the TOs discretion, if not, all objectives are mundane for the duration of the event. If so, all scenarios that use objectives will follow the rules for Mysterious Objectives as noted in the rulebook on p. 125. Players must roll for each objective individually. Once determined, each objective uses the determined rules for the remainder of the game.

Round Timing
Round times are approximately 2 hours for most tournament games. This means that in order to complete a six-turn game, player turns should be around 10 minutes each if given equal weight. Naturally, some turns will go longer and some shorter as more or less of the battle is joined, but players must be mindful of their turns and conduct the game in a timely manner.

Judge Calls and Rulings
It is a player's responsibility to call a judge for a ruling as soon as a questionable situation arises, preferably before models are moved or dice rolled.

Random Game Length
All games include Random Game Length, rolled for as normal. However, a TO may call any turn of a game the last one if, in his judgment, further turns would cause the game to go over the round time limit. In this case, the current turn of the game is played through both player turns then the game ends and a winner is determined.

Record Keeping and Round Scoring
At the end of each game, players must record the following information:

The winner and loser
- Their Victory Points earned in the game
- Their Battle Points earned from the game
- A Sportsmanship Score for their opponent

Unless otherwise specified, all tournament rounds use the following scoring. Note that Victory Points earned during the game determine the winner of a game in a given tournament round, while Battle Points earned from games determine the winner of the tournament.

Win the game with 3 more Secondary Objectives than your opponent:
Massacre win – 20 Battle Points for the winner / 0 Battle Points for the loser

Win the game with 2 more Secondary Objectives than your opponent:
Major win – 17 Battle Points for the winner / 3 Battle Points for the loser

Win the game with 1 more Secondary Objective than your opponent or less:
Minor win – 13 Battle Points for the winner / 7 Battle Points for the loser

Draw – 9 Battle Points per player, +1 for each Secondary Objective achieved.

Some tournament rounds may have additional Battle Point bonuses available, which will be detailed on the scenario sheet for the round.

Sportsmanship Scoring
Sportsmanship is scored on a 0-2-4-6 scale. A score of 4 represents the default score for a normal tournament game, while a 2 represents a game with a large amount of disagreement between players during the game that was difficult to resolve, and a 6 represents an amazing game that was great fun. A score of 0 represents a game that was an entirely horrible experience and will require explanation to a TO.

Army Composition
Composition scoring is a 0-1 score. A score of 1 represents an army that, in your opinion, was built with army theme as its first and foremost consideration, with competitive effectiveness second. A score of 0 represents all other lists. Composition scoring is only factored in determining the Best Army award for the tournament, and does not factor into overall scoring.

Player Voting
At the end of the event, players may cast a single vote for their Favorite Opponent of the day and their Favorite Army in the tournament. These votes are not required. A vote for Favorite Opponent must be cast for one of the player's opponents during the event, while a vote for Favorite Army may be cast for any army in the event. Favorite Opponent votes are factored into a player's overall score, Favorite Army Votes are not.

- First Favorite Opponent Vote – 1 Point
- Second Favorite Opponent Vote – 2 Points
- Third Favorite Opponent Vote – 3 Points
- Each Favorite Army Vote – 1 Point

Tournament Scoring and Awards
At the end of the event, the following scores are calculated for each player:

Overall:
- Battle Points from each round
- Painting score as judged by the TO and/or his appointed painting judges
- Sportsmanship score
- Favorite Opponent Votes

Appearance:
- Painting score as judged by the TO and/or his appointed painting judges
- Composition score
- Favorite Army votes

Sportsmanship:
- Sportsmanship score
- Favorite Opponent votes

Awards
Tournament Champion – The player with the best Overall score is the Tournament Champion and takes the top prize. Ties are broken first by Sportsmanship (including Favorite Opponent votes), then by raw Battle Points, then by Victory Points earned in-game.
Best Army – The player with the best Appearance score wins the Best Army award and a secondary prize. Ties are broken first by number of Favorite Army Votes, then by Sportsmanship (including Favorite Opponent votes), then by raw Battle Points
Best Sportsman – The player with the highest Sportsmanship score wins the Best Sportsman award and a secondary prize. Ties are broken by least raw Battle Points, then by least Victory Points earned in-game.
The 'Must Play Again' Award – Also known as the Wooden Spoon or Doctor award (because you still call the guy that finished last in medical school Doctor!), this prize is awarded to the player with the lowest Overall score. Their prize is free entry into the next event so they can redeem themselves!

Other Awards
Other awards may be available, including such things as Most Secondary Objectives achieved, Most Enemy Characters Killed in Challenges, Best Conversion, etc, at the TO's discretion. Such awards will have conditions to win them detailed at the beginning of the event. TOs are encouraged to keep track of fun or noteworthy occurrences in games throughout the day for which to give out door prizes.

Example: After round 2, two players tell the epic tale of how their game hinged on a single challenge between their respective Warlords, the winner of which would carry his army to victory! At the end of the day, the TO gives out a small prize to each player involved (as long as they didn't win anything else!), declaring it the award for Best Duel.

TOs are free to give out door prizes randomly as well. Regardless of the number of awards or door prizes, no player may win more than one.

Appendix A: Alternate Game Set-up
Once players have been paired with an opponent and assigned a table, they will set up their game using the sequence detailed in the 40k rulebook on pp. 118-122, with the following modifications:

- The roll for deployment and first turn is made after players Determine Warlord Traits and generate Psychic Powers.
- Fortifications are set up immediately after deployment zones are determined.
- The rules for setting up terrain are not used.

Appendix B: Alternate Round Scoring
Win the game with 10 more Victory Points more than your opponent - Massacre win
17 Battle Points for the winner / 0 Battle Points for the loser, +1 for each Secondary Objective achieved

Win the game with 5-9 more Victory Points than your opponent - Major win
14 Battle Points for the winner / 3 Battle Points for the loser, +1 for each Secondary Objective achieved

Win the game with 1-4 more Victory Points than your opponent - Minor win
13 Battle Points for the winner / 4 Battle Points for the loser, +1 for each Secondary Objective achieved

Draw – 9 Battle Points per player, +1 for each Secondary Objective achieved.

Appendix C: Known Issues and Rulings
Please check the Game Empire Tournament Rulings thread on Dakka for the most current rulings that will be enforced during the event for a variety of known issues:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/467314.page

*******************

Points level for this event is 1500.

Note that this event will be using Mysterious Objectives, but will not be using Mysterious Terrain, will not be using The Relic scenario, and will be using the Hammer & Anvil deployment as normal.

The one area of the above that I'm particularly interested in feedback on is the scoring format... both the primary scoring scheme and the alternate method listed in Appendix B. Let me know what you think of those, and what you might like to see. Trying to stick to 20 possible points in the round.

For the tournament there is a $10 entry (or $20 purchase) to play. The doors will be open early for players to come in and get set up. As usual, I want to kick this one off as close to 10:00am as possible so we don't go too long. The last one wrapped at about 6:30.

The schedule will stick as closely as possible to the following:

8:30ish - 9:30 - Show up early, have donuts with Travis (B&C donuts on Alta Dena and Foothill is particularly good for those of you in a generous mood! ), talk shop, talk about all the new armies we're all going to play now that the rules have totally changed!
9:30am - 10:00 - check-in, sign-up, event preamble, pairings
10:00am - 12:15pm - Round 1
12:15 - 1:00 - Lunch
1:00 - 3:45 - Round 2
4:00 - 6:15 - Round 3
6:30 - Winners announced

It all goes down at Game Empire Pasadena:

1795 E. Colorado Blvd.
Pasadena, CA. 91106
626-304-9333
http://www.gameempirepasadena.com

Please let me know here if you're planning on attending so I can get a rough idea what to expect. You can RSVP on Game Empire's facebook as well. If you RSVP on facebook, I'll give you a free candy and soda during the event! (Just remember to ask me about it, because I will totally forget/not know that you RSVP'd by the time we're halfway through the tournament!)

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.415837015128612.87912.106899122689071&type=3

If you have any comments or questions, let me know here or give a call to the store, and hopefully I'll see you there!
-Dis.

I'll be there!

Looking at the scoring mechanics, 10 VPs more than your opponent seems more difficult to get at first glance than it used to be, the KP mission being the exception of course. Honestly I haven't played any of the missions with this as a goal yet so I would need to. Obviously this isn't a make or break sort of thing so I say we just try it out and see, that's the best way to figure out this new edition after all, right?

I like the new format.

I'll be there along with a group of 4-5+ others depending on how many of them actually manage to get up early enough.

Regarding the scoring formats I prefer the "Appendix B" version of scoring in all missions except maybe Purge the Alien because it could very well be impossible to get 10 more victory points than some armies. Even then I think the format is probably better than any alternative I can think of.

If a player "tables" his opponent does the game end and are VPs counted from there or is it an auto massacre?

It could make a difference if a player gets everything on the table killed turn 1 but his opponent has yet to move onto any objectives.

In 5th we played tabling as all bonus points were earned, I don't know if it was "full" points though, as in a massacre. If you conceded a match we had it count as a win with full points for your opponent.

With some armies it is conceivable that you table your opponent but still lost on "Kill Points" but with the new rules that if at the end of any game turn a player is left with no models on the table then that player loses you still win. So I guess the question in a tournament is to what degree like you said. I would say a tabling is a massacre no matter what as the BRB states simply you win. But really it is Travis' call and I can see the argument both ways.

At present I think, although I could be convinced otherwise, that the best way to handle it is a massacre win if the game ends due to no models being left on the table.

The only armies this would seriously affect would be Chaos Daemons IMO as pulling the wrong wave + bad scatters could give their opponent only a few units required to completely wipe out in order to win.

As a Chaos Daemons player though, I think that is just part of the new edition with Daemons. It sucks but we have to get used to it.

Are you having a Feast of Blades qualifier, and if so, when?

How many points is this one going to be , I didn't see it maybe I'm blind

He mentioned to me previously he thought it was going to be 1,500 again but he may of changed his mind.

deanthedespoiler wrote:How many points is this one going to be , I didn't see it maybe I'm blind

It's 1500. On the FB page it is listed as 1500 and that is what's been talked up in the store etc as the points level.

On the Daemons note, I agree that it is a risk you take by playing the army. Any good Daemon player will tell you that winning with daemons is more about risk management than anything else. Except maybe luck

Not blind, I simply forgot to list it in amongst all that! The first post has been edited to include the points level, and it is 1500 points.

As for wipeouts and battle points, OW is right, in the case of an opponent conceding the game, it is scored as a massacre win with full points for the winner. I'm not quite sure how to go in the case of a wipeout victory; with the vagaries of reserves and such, it's possible one player could get blown out on the first or second turn, and while it was their risk to take, I don't know if that should constitute a massacre, or what kind of bonus points (if any) should be scored. Thoughts?

As for Feast of Blades, I'm not ready to run at 2000 (or 1999+1, or whatever they're calling it), and I've had at least a few requests to just run the next event as normal, and I'm inclined to listen to my constitchensy! I had a few conversations with the guys at FoB, but we haven't spoken in a while and to my knowledge we had not confirmed anything because I hadn't yet bought their tournament pack materials.

In any case, this one is being run as described above. I'll be happy to provide info on the winners to FoB for qualifier purposes, of course, should they want it.

I don't think I'll be there on the 11th, my social coordinator has informed me that "we" have plans that day.
On a tournament day!
IS NOTHING SACRED?!!!

Anyway good luck everyone I'll be back to claim what's mine in September

disdainful wrote:Not blind, I simply forgot to list it in amongst all that! The first post has been edited to include the points level, and it is 1500 points.

As for wipeouts and battle points, OW is right, in the case of an opponent conceding the game, it is scored as a massacre win with full points for the winner. I'm not quite sure how to go in the case of a wipeout victory; with the vagaries of reserves and such, it's possible one player could get blown out on the first or second turn, and while it was their risk to take, I don't know if that should constitute a massacre, or what kind of bonus points (if any) should be scored. Thoughts?

As for Feast of Blades, I'm not ready to run at 2000 (or 1999+1, or whatever they're calling it), and I've had at least a few requests to just run the next event as normal, and I'm inclined to listen to my constitchensy! I had a few conversations with the guys at FoB, but we haven't spoken in a while and to my knowledge we had not confirmed anything because I hadn't yet bought their tournament pack materials.

In any case, this one is being run as described above. I'll be happy to provide info on the winners to FoB for qualifier purposes, of course, should they want it.

I would be fine with a wipeout victory being either a Massacre or a Major as long as any bonus points that could be earned are. For example you wouldn't get First Blood/Warlord/Line Breaker unless you had achieved it. I believe the wording for Warlord is dead at the end of the game and unit in deployment zone at the end of the game. If you wipe someone out the game ends immediately so if you don't have a unit in the deployment zone then you didn't earn it. I think that made sense right?

In short for a tabling, Massacre or Major, but only bonus points that you've actually achieved. Also, if you would have achieved a Massacre then I think you should still achieve it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tuff Love wrote:I don't think I'll be there on the 11th, my social coordinator has informed me that "we" have plans that day.
On a tournament day!
IS NOTHING SACRED?!!!

Anyway good luck everyone I'll be back to claim what's mine in September

Unfortunately no, nothing is sacred to the social coordinator. I keep my fingers crossed all the way up to the morning of!

I'm gonna try to make it, but I haven't even really had a chance to play that much. I'll just have to win instead of Andy.

OverwatchCNC wrote:I would be fine with a wipeout victory being either a Massacre or a Major as long as any bonus points that could be earned are. For example you wouldn't get First Blood/Warlord/Line Breaker unless you had achieved it. I believe the wording for Warlord is dead at the end of the game and unit in deployment zone at the end of the game. If you wipe someone out the game ends immediately so if you don't have a unit in the deployment zone then you didn't earn it. I think that made sense right?

I know what you're getting at. The BRB includes a note that, if at the end of any turn a player does not have any models on the table, they lose the game. This is a departure from last ed. where you had to have nothing left (so reserves still waiting in the wings kept you going), iirc. Either way, it means that games can end abruptly, especially at lower points and factoring in armies getting kooky allies and reserves.

I'd say the best solution is Massacre win, bonus points as earned. Simple.

As an aside, we totally missed the 'Unusual Power Weapons' part of the CC weapons rules, which make it pretty clear that Frost blades/Frost Axes are both AP3, S as user melee weapons with the unique rule that they grant +1S to the wielder, so no +2 strength unwieldy AP2 Frost Axes!

Don't worry Dok, 6th ed. won't bite!

disdainful wrote:I'd say the best solution is Massacre win, bonus points as earned. Simple.

Sounds like the best solution to me.

As an aside, we totally missed the 'Unusual Power Weapons' part of the CC weapons rules, which make it pretty clear that Frost blades/Frost Axes are both AP3, S as user melee weapons with the unique rule that they grant +1S to the wielder, so no +2 strength unwieldy AP2 Frost Axes!

Don't worry Dok, 6th ed. won't bite!

It is actually the SW FAQ which says this, unfortunately. Page 3 of the SW FAQ changes frost axes to +2 str ap 2 unwieldy and frost swords to +1 str ap 3.

walledin wrote:It is actually the SW FAQ which says this, unfortunately. Page 3 of the SW FAQ changes frost axes to +2 str ap 2 unwieldy and frost swords to +1 str ap 3.

LOL! Looks like we got that one all kinds of wrong! We were going around in circles today spazzing out about what kind of power weapon a burna was!

...And then I started thinking: This sounds like a problem that comes from not reading the last sentence. Lo and behold, there it was!

...Though the image of burnas with bodged-on axe heads and speartips was pretty hilarious, if only for a moment!

disdainful wrote:...Though the image of burnas with bodged-on axe heads and speartips was pretty hilarious, if only for a moment!

We had that discussion locally and decided that the best way to model it would of been to green stuff axe shaped flames on the end.

I will be bringing my improved nids and I'm dragging Scott w along with his necrons again

disdainful wrote:Scenarios & Deployment Type
The scenarios and deployments for each round will be pre-determined by the TO. In some cases, the number of objectives for the various objective-based missions will be pre-determined as well. If this is not the case players will roll randomly to determine the number of objectives at their table for the game. The TO will ensure that scenarios are not repeated if possible given the number of rounds in the event, and that if scenarios must be repeated that they use differing deployments. All scenarios and deployments are played from the 40k rulebook on pp. 118-119 and 126-131, with the following modifications:

Hammer and Anvil Deployment: In the case of a room layout where tables are set up end-to-end, Hammer and Anvil deployment may be replaced by Spearhead Deployment at the TOs discretion. In Spearhead deployment, players set up in opposite table quarters, with no model deployed within 12” of the center of the table. A player's table edge is the long table edge on which their deployment zone lies.

The Scouring: Each player must place at least one objective in the no-man's-land between deployment zones.

The Relic: The Relic scenario will not be played in most normal events.

Secondary Objectives
All Secondary Objectives (Slay the Warlord, First Blood, and Linebreaker) are included in each scenario unless otherwise specified.

Am I missing it or is 'Scouring' the only mission type you fixed the objective issue on?

Because while the objectives in Scouring can end up being incredibly lopsided, its unlikely to end up that way, whereas an odd number of objectives in 'Crusade' or 'Big Guns Never Tire' absolutely ensures a completely lopsided game...so if you were going to write an objective fix in for any mission, shouldn't it have been for 'Crusade' or 'Big Guns'? Or are you just planning on always having an even number of objectives?

I think having to place the odd objective into no-mans land on those missions is essentially required to have any semblance of a fair game.


Oh and have you changed your mind about allowing IA units yet? I'm telling you, now's the time!

Due to the varying VPs of objectives in the Scouring, it has the additional objective placement rule in place to reduce the effect of lopsided random objectives. Having to place in no-man's land means that if one player does get the 3 and 4 in his deployment zone, *and* the other guy gets the 1 and 2, there's still at least a 3 and 2 in play. Uphill battle probably, but unwinnable/unfair hopefully not.

There are no modifications to objective placement in Crusade and BGNT because this format requires that players determine the number of objectives and place them before rolling for deployment zone/first turn. So, just like three months ago, if there's five objectives and the player who puts three down drops them all deep in one deployment zone, he runs the risk of his opponent winning the roll for deployment and camping all his shiny objectives.

We're going to see how this change works. It was discussed before the previous event, but I wanted to see if the new stuff like secondary objectives/random objective values/heavy and fast FOC choices scoring in some missions had any bearing, and it became clear that if it did, it wasn't enough after hearing feedback from players. I decided to go with the tried and true sequence, mostly because it's a well-established habit of tournament players by this point so flipping the script isn't optimal anyway, but also because I feel that it is the least limiting on the players and reduces the unavoidable temptation to stack the deck, so to speak, which just causes an NPE for someone.

As for FW/IA... At the least, I'd say that I could be convinced. Truth be told, that stuff is so far off my radar it's silly, mostly because it's something I can't sell in my store (thanks Workshop! ), so I haven't even really bothered keeping up with it. Come down to the shop, show me these Forgeworlds Books you speak of and their blasphemous contents, and I can make a more informed decision!

I'm planning to be there. Finally got all the rules sorted in my head...

My only issue with IA/FW is that there is a unit summary in my 40k rulebook for everything that is in the Codex books, not so much for FW/IA. I at least have a general idea of the stats and capabilities of every unit in 40k but with FW/IA you have to buy the books just to familiarize yourself with the units even if you have no intention of buying FW models. I doubt there would be anything too surprising but I always thought FW/IA was with opponents permission and only for campaigns, narratives, and other non-competitive games. Nothing personally against those units and books, other than they are cost prohibitive in my collection.

It may very well be that we're on the cusp of a new era as regards Forgeworld. In my dream world, GW would release an FAQ or document that integrated FW into the main game and then set up a trade format where I can carry that product in my store.

But, GW being as it is, and Forgeworld's production capability being as it is, my dream is unlikely. What I would expect if rumors are true is something that legitimizes certain aspects of FW in the main game, which will in turn make it more prevalent in events. It would certainly make FW more money, even if they remain as their namesake - the distant, baroque and arcane world from whence wonders come, at the high price of one's soul!

The summary in the back of the book doesn't include special characters and army specific stuff like Deffrollas and Runic Weapons, and (again, limited knowledge of the current state of FW releases here, so bear that in mind) I expect the stuff that we're talking about including here is in the same vein: a handful of army-specific elements that wouldn't be in the force's general summary anyway.

I'd be happy to spend some time with the FW books to get a better sense of what we're talking about, but someone will need to bring them in so I can take a look; I ordered myself a costly fiasco of a set of Imperial Fists vehicle accessories and a couple pre-plastic kit Vindicator sets, and I'm not keen to dive into that swamp again!

If anyone is coming from the Ventura/Oxnard area or further up the coast and wants to share ride costs shoot me a PM. I have to spend half as many wife points to come if I can leave her the car...

I might try to make it.

Imma flying circus all over the place!!

My first event after shipping out the orks with probably be pretty gloom and doom for me though...

It looks right now like I don't move back to Minnesota until the next week which means I will get one last SoCal tournament under my belt!

disdainful wrote:I hadn't yet bought their tournament pack materials.

Is FoB charging stores who run qualifiers?

BladeWalker wrote:If anyone is coming from the Ventura/Oxnard area or further up the coast and wants to share ride costs shoot me a PM. I have to spend half as many wife points to come if I can leave her the car...

If you don't hear from anyone who is right around you shoot me a PM a few days before the tournament. I could stop by on my way through from SB.

what was the ruling on grounding test for FMC's? is it everytime they are shot or by unit?

deanthedespoiler wrote:what was the ruling on grounding test for FMC's? is it everytime they are shot or by unit?

Last tournament it was once they're grounded they no longer count as swooping. Allowed me to obliterate two Swooping Tyrants on the first turn.

I'm okay with the ruling either way, but I just think its crazy that if you're saying the unit no longer counts as swooping when grounded that somehow the 'snap fire' penalty for 'diving' would somehow still apply in the FMC's next turn (which is how it was ruled last time). That's just nuts to me, as it seems like the overall ruling is being made based on the fact that intent of the rule is likely that a grounded creature is supposed to no longer be swooping and therefore doesn't get any swooping benefits anymore, but if that's the case, why would it still get the jink benefit from diving (or would it) and if it wouldn't once its grounded, why would that penalty for diving somehow still apply?

The FMC issue is a problem. As discussed before, it's either nonsensical or something of a hindrance to the model who owns the rule. That being said, we've got a bug player in the store whose Flyrants have yet to suffer so ignominious an end as the guy that Yak played (though Yak's Ork/Tau alliance army didn't have a whole lot of trouble with flyers in general, so his sampling might be slightly skewed! )

That being said, it's a bad spot in the rules. Thankfully one of the few, but bad nonetheless. Hopefully we'll get something from GW on it soon, at which point I may have a plate full of crow to enjoy (though I don't think so!), but until then, I'm sticking to my ruling.

Something from last night's games, thanks to BrotherErekose for bringing it up: Tervigons Smashing with Crushing Claws and Warp Speed and how to resolve their attacks. It seems pretty clear to me that the rules for modifying stats in the beginning of the book cover this, which means you would halve the stat (3, down to 1.5, rounded up to 2), then apply +d3 for the claws and +d3 for Warp Speed, +1 if charging (potentially) for a spread of 5-9 attacks. I've looked at all the relevant literature and I can't see any good reason this wouldn't be the case, but I'd be happy to hear alternate opinions.

About ten days to go! I'm looking forward to seeing everyone again.

I don't see any other reasonable way to interpret the Tervigon situation personally.

Although knowing GW and their past record with the Tyranid FAQ, I'm sure they'll come out and make a ruling against their RAW and say that Smash halving happens after all other modifiers or something.

I've always said that I won't be surprised if GW rules either way on stuff; such is their mercurial mind.

And again here, I would be unsurprised if GW goes with a ruling that keeps the number of attacks the Tervigon can generate low. And not only because we're not talking about Space Wolves (who get all the FAQ breaks, always ), but also because I can easily hear some rationale bounce around my head about how it's a giant, ponderous brood-mother type creature whose primary role is support not attack, carnifexes are the assault bioforms blah blah blah.

We shall see. Anyone have any notion of when there might be a second round of FAQs, including one for the BRB? Not that I'm holding my breath!