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I'm looking to eventually play 40k, but I want to paint my newest miniature(s) before I buy the next. That being said, my focus is my painting abilities/techniques. Here's my first miniature and paint job:





Cronstructive criticism is welcomed. The weapons are being painted, and I'll be using magnets to swap them out. I know it's not the best job; that's why I have a few questions:

1. Should I be washing these guys with some kind of glaze/wash (are those the same?)
2. If so, what brand and color would you recommend?

3. Should I be thinning my Citadel paints? I want my paints jobs to be smoother than they are.
4. If I should thin them, what's an easy method to determine desired consitency?

Thanks you for any and all advice!

Kasey

That's pretty good for an intro miniature.

Looks a bit anime (which I suspect is actually the look you're going for). If you choose add more depth, washes and battle damage (well placed, check youtube) will help. Also do a little Google research on "Edge Highlighting."

As for thinning your paints, it depends on the paint. You should thin your paints, just take your time and do your homework so as not to ruin your paints. I use Citadel and a few others, but I like my brush paints a little thicker than airbrush paints (which is about the consistency of milk). Take into consideration this is my personal preference.

The only thing I'm seeing that I'm not liking is the teal with the baby blue. That having been said, it looks good otherwise. Your lines look pretty clean and it looks like you have good brush control. It looks like you drybrushed the baby blues but not the teals, though. I'd suggest going back and highlighting the teal someway, either by edging it in a lighter color or by drybrushing. Edging gives a better result, usually, especially when a surface doesn't have hard edges to catch paint on, but drybrushing is very fast and easy and gives a pretty good result anyway.

If you're going to highlight the edges, don't just draw around the edges, look for where the light would be. This link is for Black Templar. Ignore the link and all the color information, just check out where they highlighted the armor and where they didn't to sort of get the idea. I did the Black Templar one just because the grey over black is really easy to see, whereas normal highlighting is a bit more subtle. http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?97359-Painting-Black-Templars-Initiates

Washes settle to the lowest points on a model and sit there, creating shadows in cracks and folds and other depressions. They're wonderful and will improve your game significantly. That having been said, they also sort of stain or dye the surface you apply the wash to. You can use this to your benefit, darkening an area or giving a grey a slight tint of whatever you wash with or whatever. The problems come along when you try and wash a color that you're satisfied with. If you were to wash that particular model, it would sink to the cracks, but it would dye your teal darker, and on flat ares, if you apply to much, it comes out sort of patchy. I'd figure since you were able to paint it where the cracks are already dark, there isn't much reason to wash the armor. However, on the mechanical portions like the legs and all that, anything that you'll be painting metal, you should definitely wash it. When you start doing your Fire Warriors, washes will help alot on the cloth and armor and all that.

Glazes are supposed to be less about darkening recesses and more about tinting a color. That having been said, I haven't messed much with them. Here's an article that might help. http://handcannononline.com/blog/2011/09/09/tutorial-basics-glazed-over-washes-and-glazing/

As far as wash colors go, you really can't go wrong with black or brown, black on very dark or cool colors, brown on medium to light and warmer colors. Also, washes in colors that work with what you're doing might be useful, but they're much less commonly used than black or brown.

Alot of people recommend thinning your paints, though I've never seen much reason to. It's worth remembering that whenever you take a giant photo of your minis, you will see all sorts of horrible things you didn't see on the actual mini. So a smooth looking mini can take a very rough and textured photo. Basically, I'd recommend painting to a standard appropriate for the application. If you just want to play the game, slap paint on your guys and don't look back. I'm guessing based off the time it looks like you took on this guy, you want something a bit better than garbage but not pro level. I'd suggest learning a few simple techniques, take your time with your guys, but don't fret over every little misstep. If you're trying to paint like a pro, go nuts and water all of your paint down and apply every color in fifteen thin coats and do crazy paint blend ratios like 13:9 White and Pallid Witch Flesh. Try not to get too anal retentive about your paintjobs. It's very easy to look at the amazing minis in the gallery and think "I want to paint like that" and end up touching up and retouching up a model over and over again rather than moving on to another squad. What I'm trying to say is you can paint quite well without all the aggrivation of watering, and when you're reading techniques or advice, just remember if it's a tip for pros or schmoes.

Your drybrush is showing.

If you find white doesn't want to adequatly cover the surface you are painting on, paint on a layer of grey first. That way, it will look like white that's in shadow. Then when you put white on it, it will actually work.

Also, it looks like you didn't thin your paint, like you went right out of the pot. This is a bad idea. Not only do you burn through your paint much faster than you might otherwise, but you also dry out your entire pot faster. My girlfriend does this, and she's really handy with a brush (better than I, she does much better on canvas than I ever did), but this habit of hers always makes me cringe when I see it. At least it's not my paints......

RE: No reason to thin paints.

The reason is better paint control. By grading your layers up, you blend your colors from color A through to color B. Another reason is volume. Some colors are more aggressive because they have more pigment, so you can afford to thin it down and make more use out of the same amount of paint. Alternatively, you may just want a hint of the color, and not the full-on blast for highlighting, so watering it down gives just that little bit of color you might be hungint for. Another reason is control: Watered paint flows better from the brush,so if you are doing lots of wavy lines, watered paint will get you farther faster than straight up paint from the pot. None of this is really anal, or excessive. If I'm already overpaying for sub-par product Games Walletbreaker, then I might as well go through the effort of painting it up as best I can.

poda_t wrote:The reason is better paint control. By grading your layers up, you blend your colors from color A through to color B. Another reason is volume. Some colors are more aggressive because they have more pigment, so you can afford to thin it down and make more use out of the same amount of paint. Alternatively, you may just want a hint of the color, and not the full-on blast for highlighting, so watering it down gives just that little bit of color you might be hungint for. Another reason is control: Watered paint flows better from the brush,so if you are doing lots of wavy lines, watered paint will get you farther faster than straight up paint from the pot. None of this is really anal, or excessive. If I'm already overpaying for sub-par product Games Walletbreaker, then I might as well go through the effort of painting it up as best I can.

I've been using the same paints, straight out of the pot, leaving the pot open while painting, without watering for about a year and a half now. I have had no drying issues. That having been said, for someone who's trying to paint like a pro, watering paints down is the best thing to do. If you're trying to paint for tabletop, even good for tabletop, it's not a huge deal not to water down. The problem is that there are people who are hobbyists and there are people who are fine artists. And yes I consider some of what the super talented people do fine art. It's important not to confuse the two, though. I painted (or tried painting) my first few models based off every single painting recomendation I could find and quickly realized that it wasn't for me, and more importantly, was screwing up my motivation. I was just trying to get someone new to the hobby to understand that there is a difference between the two and to punch your weight, whatever that may be.

My own opinion is that no matter what you want to achieve, you always want to thin your paint. Now consistency really is a matter of taste, I've come to do it all by eye now and so have no recipe to offer but you want the paint to run like some sort of thick water and then you want to wipe excess away from your brush.

Paint brand doesn't matter too much. I have various brands mainly because of colour variations, you'll learn to work with anything.

But for a first job, your painting is very good. You have to thin your whites more and working from a grey base is best in that case.

Above all, keep painting!

Model looks good, but the white needs thinned, though I must say I'm guilty of this too. and your black has some white or grey showing through, but it makes it look kind of weathered.

1. Should I be washing these guys with some kind of glaze/wash (are those the same?)
It really depends on you and how you want it to look, personally I'm not washing my Necrons because I like the stark White feel they have going.

2. If so, what brand and color would you recommend?
I use GW and Army Painter mostly, I use Army Painter Strong/Dark Tone for my Black/Brown (which is what I use about 95% of the time) and then GW if I want pretty much any other color.

3. Should I be thinning my Citadel paints? I want my paints jobs to be smoother than they are.
It depends on what you think, I've found that some paints have to be thinned to look good, mostly White, anything else, It will look better if you thin, but you have to use more coats. Though I usually only thin my whites, anything else if you don't use too much paint and leave it on, it usually looks good.

4. If I should thin them, what's an easy method to determine desired consitency?
I eyeball it, a lot of people seem to use a 1/1 or 2/1 paint/water, Im pretty sure I do about a 2/1 when Im eyeballing it.

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I agree with your opinions; my dry brush/highlighting skills are weak. My white paint job on the arms is my absolute worst. :lmao: And yes, I'm not a pro and don't really dream of being that amazing.

BUT, while I do not think I'll be a pro, I know I can improve and really want to. Knowing that I eventually want to play and use pieces on the tabletop, I don't wish to go crazy. But, as mentioned above, I could benefit from some simple techniques.

Painting is therapeutic to me, and it's for that reason that it doesn't bother me to take my sweet time on some of these pieces. That's why I wouldn't mind applying more coats with thinner paints if it'll achieve the smoother look I'm going for.

I do have a question about thinning. Do you use a separate container for thinning paint? I'm thinking you would to minimize the risk of screwing up you paint,

If you do thin a paint color like red to the consistency of thick water, how many coats would it take to make it solid?

Thanks again!


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After my two drones, I'll open up my piranha box. I want to try out a small vehicle.

I think I might try to edge highlight my drones for practice. We shall see how that turns out.

Nice results for your first model, keep it up.

For thinning paint you should be thinning them out of the pot, on a non absorbent surface (plastic lids are decent & spare tiles are quite popular).
Getting an even coat is situational, mainly depending on the base coat your painting over & the pigment count of the paint you're using.
If you're painting over black try applying a layer of darker red or brown (and make sure its even!) before going in with your final colour, if you're painting over white applying the final red by itself should be fine. In regards to the number of coats, just look at the model as you finish each coat & if it's patchy go in with another layer, base coats diluted 1:1 usually don't take more than 2 coats.

I suggest you try an incorporate edge highlighting on all your models, its a tedious and time consuming task at first but it will make your minis stand out much, much more. Crisis suits have plenty of sharp edges that are quite easy to highlight.
Awesomepaintjob on youtube talks about and demonstrates easy edge highlighting in one of his tutorials (Black Templars, iirc), I recommend you check it out.

kaserpick wrote:I do have a question about thinning. Do you use a separate container for thinning paint? I'm thinking you would to minimize the risk of screwing up you paint,

When I first started painting, I (like many others, I imagine) didn't thin my paints at all. Then, at one point I learned that thinning might be a good idea, so I started adding a few drops of water into the paint lid with a syringe, and realised that this was Good.

Later, I figured I'd give a palette a go, and started mixing the paint and water on top of old jar lids, and realised that this was Awesome.

Then, I read about using a wet palette, made one, started using it for mixing and thinning, and realised that it is Awesome with Ponies and/or Bears.

If you do thin a paint color like red to the consistency of thick water, how many coats would it take to make it solid?

Depends on the type of paint and what colour you're painting over. Orange or darker red is easier to cover than white. For a ballpark number, I'll say five layers.

Thanks for the info guys! This is awesome stuff!

That is absolutley excellent for a first paint job! Also definitley thin your paints! You can use water of a pot of paint medium that can be bought from most art stores of GW.

Thanks! Yes, I'm definitely going to thin my paints. I might start @ 2:1, paint:water ratio. We'll see how the drones come along.


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A wet pallet seems a great idea; I might try this.

Everyone here offers advice that would trump anything I have, the most important thing I think is to push yourself to do better. Don't settle for less. Keep up the good work and make sure to post more.

Okay couple things, one before anything, your off to a really good start. THat looks better then some of the crap i see listed on ebay as "pro-painted" okay now for the tips.

1. Cool Mini or Not (coolminiornot.com) - when you get a new piece before you start, search their gallery for what other people have done, it gives you great ideas to incorporate into your own work that you might not have thought of.

2. Multiple thin layers will give you a better (smoother) finish than trying to blast through it in one gooped on layer.

3. primer coat is key. remember that cold, humidity and primer quality can all effect how the primer coat goes on. (again multiple light coats do better than a runny heavy spray)

4. buy a color wheel from the local art store. they range from about $3 to about $20 for a really really detailed one. It shows what colors complement other colors and also what colors to use as highlights for colors.

5. GW color progression charts are also good for finding complementing colors for layering and highlighting.

6. You tube is your friend. Alot of people put up how to videos that you can pick up techniques from.

I think it looks good for a first go. Good to see some NC residents on here. I'm from the Raleigh/Durham area.

poda_t wrote:If you find white doesn't want to adequatly cover the surface you are painting on, paint on a layer of grey first. That way, it will look like white that's in shadow. Then when you put white on it, it will actually work.

Good advice! I didn't know to do this but I'll employ it now.

noneoftheabove0 wrote:

poda_t wrote:The reason is better paint control. By grading your layers up, you blend your colors from color A through to color B. Another reason is volume. Some colors are more aggressive because they have more pigment, so you can afford to thin it down and make more use out of the same amount of paint. Alternatively, you may just want a hint of the color, and not the full-on blast for highlighting, so watering it down gives just that little bit of color you might be hungint for. Another reason is control: Watered paint flows better from the brush,so if you are doing lots of wavy lines, watered paint will get you farther faster than straight up paint from the pot. None of this is really anal, or excessive. If I'm already overpaying for sub-par product Games Walletbreaker, then I might as well go through the effort of painting it up as best I can.

I've been using the same paints, straight out of the pot, leaving the pot open while painting, without watering for about a year and a half now. I have had no drying issues. That having been said, for someone who's trying to paint like a pro, watering paints down is the best thing to do. If you're trying to paint for tabletop, even good for tabletop, it's not a huge deal not to water down. The problem is that there are people who are hobbyists and there are people who are fine artists. And yes I consider some of what the super talented people do fine art. It's important not to confuse the two, though. I painted (or tried painting) my first few models based off every single painting recomendation I could find and quickly realized that it wasn't for me, and more importantly, was screwing up my motivation. I was just trying to get someone new to the hobby to understand that there is a difference between the two and to punch your weight, whatever that may be.

That's a fair statement, but there's a few ways to look at it. On the one hand, if its a small army, you probably have more time to dedicate. Larger models also draw more attention, so they also deserve more time. A horde army is not going to draw much attention on the small fine detail, and infact, it's a waste of effort because most of those guardsmen will be wiped off the table by turn 2. That said, most of the stuff from GW is so expensive as to demand my attention. With the price climbing so high, never knowing what comes next in life, I'd rather have a quality I can resell at a decent price. To each their own, and your argument is a good one.


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Another bit of advice I have, is to go buy some second hand models, that you can trash as test models, if you don't already have some that you can use as test models. You should be able to find waste models by the bucket on kijiji for a decent price, or even bum them off of people.

This way, you can try out your color scheme, and new tricks, so you don't accidentally mess up your actual model.

I'm a huge advocate of paint thinning now that I'm stripping all my 10 year old minis and repainting.

It also keeps the texture of the surface clear; as I can see on yours you can see the paint texture quite easily.

Plus, it's easy to put on another layer of paint if it's too thin, but if it's too thick you can't fix it without replacing the whole thing.

Very nice for a first model!
If you need some general painting advice, check out this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/416755.page

Thanks for all the advice everyone! Keep it coming, please. I'm learning quite a bit and gaining some new websites to look at for inspiration and advice. I really appreciate this.

As I was sitting at home, looking at my Crisis Suite, I thought, "If I keep it the way that it is, am I settling?" I think that's a slippery slope. Settling is a mindset I never want to adopt. That being said, I knew I wanted to improve this mini. But, as mentioned before, I can't simply thin the layers, so I decided to pick up a bottle of "Super Cleaner" degreaser from my local auto-store. After a night of soaking the Crisis suite and the drones are now completely stripped of paint and primer.

I also picked up some higher quality brushes, mixing jars, paint thinner, and a few more paints. I'm going to go with a more subdued color scheme from GW's site, utilizing a base coat, wash, 1st edge highlight, 2nd edge highlight, and maybe further shading if necessary. I'm going to take it slow though. I don't care about speed at this point. I really want to nail these techniques. I'm going to have to get some throw-away guys to test with.

I'll keep posting pics. I might do a pic for each step, if that won't bore everyone.

Wish me luck.