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I was playing against necron last weekend and faced a squad of 20 warriors with their general in it.
I hit the squad square in the middle and away from the general, causing 4 wounds. However my opponent insisted that all wounds should be saved on the lord because he was closest to the launcher. So instead of 4+ saves everything was done on 2+ saves.

I thought there was a rule on "mayority of saves" or something like that and that models hit by the blast are the ones saving.

Which is correct?

If the lord is part of the squad that was hit, then he can take a wound. But the wounds have to be shared out evenly across all the squad. So the lord can take one wound, but every other member of the squad has to take a wound before the lord can take a second wound.

Wounds from Blasts are allocated to the model nearest the firing unit just like normal shooting. Barrage weapons however measure from the center of the blast.

s.j.mccartney wrote:If the lord is part of the squad that was hit, then he can take a wound. But the wounds have to be shared out evenly across all the squad. So the lord can take one wound, but every other member of the squad has to take a wound before the lord can take a second wound.

5th edition rules you'd be right. Not 6th.

As Happyjew says, would allocation is closest to the firing unit (exception of barrage weapons), so the Lord would take all the hits (one at a time as the armour save is different) until dead.

Sounds like I need a terminator to suck up all wounds in my squads then!

Thanks for the quick responses

Falls under the rules of mixed armor values, He'd take one wound, the rest would go to the other models near the blast.

Neroman wrote:Falls under the rules of mixed armor values, He'd take one wound, the rest would go to the other models near the blast.

No, it would not.

The closest model gets every wound allocated to him until he dies. (He can LOS of course)

coredump wrote:

Neroman wrote:Falls under the rules of mixed armor values, He'd take one wound, the rest would go to the other models near the blast.

No, it would not.

The closest model gets every wound allocated to him until he dies. (He can LOS of course)

Derp, you're right.

Just reread the section. I would say it goes to him because he's the closest until he dies. But roll each save one at a time. Just follow mixed saves on page 15.

Kind of wish they'd let blast/template hit whatever they hit. Wounding the front "makes sense" for regular shooting, but a blast in the middle of an enemy column really shouldn't work like that. Of course, I'm a Necron player with easy access to 2+ armor saves. I really shouldn't complain.

Fafnir13 wrote:Kind of wish they'd let blast/template hit whatever they hit. Wounding the front "makes sense" for regular shooting, but a blast in the middle of an enemy column really shouldn't work like that. Of course, I'm a Necron player with easy access to 2+ armor saves. I really shouldn't complain.

This would go more in line with that cinematic thing they are aiming for.

It is all for Speed.

However, they sort of can hit that which is under them; If the models hit(under the Marker) are out of LOS, but are the nearest models in the Target unit to the shooting Unit, then those models are allocated the wounds first.

Template weapons tend to start having their wounds allocated to at least 1 model under the template due to the nature of the Template as a range, and its placement rules(tends to be the closest to the closest); so long as the Template weapons wounds are the first to allocate.

Barrage weapons always treat the center of the marker as the shooting unit and so will/can only hit models under the marker.

Only if the blast scatters - if the blast hits you have no permission to wound models out of los, surely?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Only if the blast scatters - if the blast hits you have no permission to wound models out of los, surely?

If it is a normal blast weapon the shot would have passed the closest model to get to the place where you put the marker. Just be happy you dont have to center marker over the closest model in the unit. And don't call me Shirley. (I hope someone gets that reference. I am really going to feel old otherwise.)

terminalmonky wrote:And don't call me Shirley. (I hope someone gets that reference. I am really going to feel old otherwise.)

Yes, I get the reference. God do I feel old sometimes...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Only if the blast scatters - if the blast hits you have no permission to wound models out of los, surely?

No if you hit, but placed your marker over a model in LOS, with several models out of LOS; the models out of LOS are still eligible.

To the MS-paint!

Edit: Okies, example time.



Now, in this image we have a Frag missile shot at an Ork Boy that is in Clear LOS.

The models under the blast and to the left of the Red Line are out of LOS.

Even though it is a hit, with no scatter, all 5 models under the line are eligible to receive the wounds; and, in fact, the one on the bottom left(and completely out of LOS) is the nearest model so is the first to have the wounds allocated to it(and then receives cover from the Marine).

Now, in this image we have a Frag missile shot at an Ork Boy that is in Clear LOS.

The models under the blast and to the left of the Red Line are out of LOS.

Even though it is a hit, with no scatter, all 5 models under the line are eligible to receive the wounds; and, in fact, the one on the bottom left(and completely out of LOS) is the nearest model so is the first to have the wounds allocated to it(and then receives cover from the Marine).

Repeat that again, it makes no sense or alter the model placement a little.
The one right under the blast center looks to be the closest to the one who is shooting so why should the orks get a cover save?

Pyriel- wrote:

Now, in this image we have a Frag missile shot at an Ork Boy that is in Clear LOS.

The models under the blast and to the left of the Red Line are out of LOS.

Even though it is a hit, with no scatter, all 5 models under the line are eligible to receive the wounds; and, in fact, the one on the bottom left(and completely out of LOS) is the nearest model so is the first to have the wounds allocated to it(and then receives cover from the Marine).

Repeat that again, it makes no sense or alter the model placement a little.
The one right under the blast center looks to be the closest to the one who is shooting so why should the orks get a cover save?

The one behind the building is the closest model.

Not by much, but it is.

I actually did measure it; on my 32" screen the Ork behind the building is 6 1/2" from the Marine, the one with the blast centered is 6 3/4" away.

In 6th edition you determine cover on a model-by-model basis. The model that has the wound allocated to it is in cover(completely behind a building). Ergo; the model has a cover save that is different from the 6+ armour save of the model directly under the center hole.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Only if the blast scatters - if the blast hits you have no permission to wound models out of los, surely?

No if you hit, but placed your marker over a model in LOS, with several models out of LOS; the models out of LOS are still eligible.

To the MS-paint!

Edit: Okies, example time.
Even though it is a hit, with no scatter, all 5 models under the line are eligible to receive the wounds; and, in fact, the one on the bottom left(and completely out of LOS) is the nearest model so is the first to have the wounds allocated to it(and then receives cover from the Marine).

Not true.
Page 33 says that shots can scatter out of range and line of sight. This represents ricochets, blasting through cover...
And then the important part:
"In these cases, hits are worked out as normal and can hit and wound units out of range and line of sight"

These cases, is referencing scattered shots. The rules also reference that a scatter can be reduced to ZERO by BS.

So, the ork behind the building (nice drawing btw) does not cause a hit on the unit if you roll a hit on the scatter die. If you roll a scatter, and the template ends up in the exact same position, then the ricochet rule comes into play and he's hit. If the blast scatters, he's still hit.

What I didn't notice before is that the ability to hit and wound is actually spelled out in Ricochet on units out of range AND out of line of sight.
You don't have permission to hit a model in range that is out of line of sight, or a model out of range that is in line of sight.
Likewise you don't have permission to Ricochet into models at all, only units.

So scratch all that. If you scatter, you are SOL unless you scatter outside of range, outside of line of sight, and into a new unit (since the previous unit wound be in range and line of sight).
Blah. Worst rule of 6th edition (or is that FnP?)


-Matt

I'm still getting to grips with 6th, but I was under the assumption that even though the model behind the building is closest the 5 wounds are only allocated to the 3 figures visible to the marine (the last ork would get a cover save).

Where in the book does it say otherwise? Don't get me wrong. I would like to be incorrect about how blast weapons work with not hurting guy out of LOS, with the exception of barrage blasts.

Under the rule for blasts, IF the blast scatters. If the blast hits you CANNOT hit and wound models out of LOS.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Under the rule for blasts, IF the blast scatters. If the blast hits you CANNOT hit and wound models out of LOS.

I've been reading and rereading the blast rules on page 33 of the book. From what I can gather from the wording of the rules is that wherever the blast ends up (scatter or no scatter), you count up the hits under the template, roll to wound on those hits based on average toughness, than apply those wounds to models in Line of Site of the firer starting with the closest (in LOS). No wounds can be applied to units outside of LOS.

Granted, I could be wrong (I'm no 6th expert). If I am, please point me to the correct page I should be looking at.

pie, the rules for blasts specifically state that it can wound units that are out of range/sight. The rules then say that you allocate the wounds as normal. RAW you have Schrödinger Wounds when scattering into a unit out of sight. How I think everybody will play it, the out of sight unit can be wounded.

My interpretation of that sentence your referring to, is that on a scatter, the blast template can be out of range and also in a position that is out of LOS of the firer (thus the hit and wound wording). When it comes time to allocate the wounds though, only models within LOS of the firer can be killed.

Which makes the wording entirely useless. You are specifically told it can hit and wound UNITS that are out of LOS. Entire units not in LOS of the firing model.

you are told you can wound, thus allocation must be allowed otherwise you havent wounded.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Only if the blast scatters - if the blast hits you have no permission to wound models out of los, surely?

No if you hit, but placed your marker over a model in LOS, with several models out of LOS; the models out of LOS are still eligible.

To the MS-paint!

Edit: Okies, example time.



Now, in this image we have a Frag missile shot at an Ork Boy that is in Clear LOS.

The models under the blast and to the left of the Red Line are out of LOS.

Even though it is a hit, with no scatter, all 5 models under the line are eligible to receive the wounds; and, in fact, the one on the bottom left(and completely out of LOS) is the nearest model so is the first to have the wounds allocated to it(and then receives cover from the Marine).

Rules aside, where did you get these perfect little pixelated representations for visualising?

That picture is from vassal 40k, it's a program that lets you play games of 40k online or make battle reports. There are also lots of other games that you can play on vassal by downloading different modules for it.

The main program can be found at: http://www.vassalengine.org/

Ah, fun with the word unit. A definition or two:

1) An individual, group, structure, or other entity regarded as an elementary structural or functional constituent of a whole.

2) A group regarded as a distinct entity within a larger group.


So "unit" can be a reference to a portion of the original squad hit. Also known as a unit has many units.

megatrons2nd wrote:Ah, fun with the word unit. A definition or two:

1) An individual, group, structure, or other entity regarded as an elementary structural or functional constituent of a whole.

2) A group regarded as a distinct entity within a larger group.


So "unit" can be a reference to a portion of the original squad hit. Also known as a unit has many units.

Units are defined by GW in the basic rule book. GW doesn't use your definition.

-Matt