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Ok,
there is a problem I have and want an answer of how people feel. Special characters p.110 are not said to be characters, now we know mephiston is a character cos page 63 lists him as such but if you have a special character that does not have IC rules are they a character?
I know that special characters that are HQ selections can be the warlord as per page 111 but is Telion, lukas, lemartes and any squad based special character a character and if so where is that listed?
RAW I can't see any reason lukas could issue a challange but his cloak only works in them.
Am I wrong or is there a big hole here?

Any character is a character. Having the IC rule just makes them an Independant Character.

Insaniak while I agree that is true I am wondering if there is anywhere in the book that says that. I have just been looking and due to what I think is an omission and some poor wording, RAW special characters aren't characters.

Started because of Bjorn the Fell-Handed.
He's a vehicle, but is he a character?
If he is a Character, what makes him a Character?

Mephiston is a character

"Other characters, such as Mephiston of the Blood Angels," P.63 Character types

It is never said, but it is implied that special Characters are characters.

The rules clearly name him a special character and allow him to be a warlord but say nothing if his a character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathReaper wrote:Mephiston is a character

"Other characters, such as Mephiston of the Blood Angels," P.63 Character types

It is never said, but it is implied that special Characters are characters.

I know, I would play it as anyone with a name is a special character and hence a character but I have encountered someone that said Lukas doesn't get it and the bjorn thing kicked this off in my head. Is there a RAW allowance though?

Are Nehekharan Undead actually Undead?

"Is there a RAW allowance though?"

Maybe, It depends on how you view P.110

"these unique individuals, who stand out from normal characters" P.110

Standing out from normal, means that special characters are a subset of characters.

I understand what you are saying, but they are referred to as "special characters" - character is right there in the designation. It's fair to assume that any special character (including "upgrade characters" such as Arjac, Lucas, Telion, etc.) are also characters, as only non-unique units are designated in the back of the book, and Mephiston is called out as a character while lacking the independent character rule, implying that any instance of a character designation in a unit entry makes it a character for rules purposes.

Brometheus wrote:Are Nehekharan Undead actually Undead?

Good try but I am looking for something to beat TFG with when I hear this crap again.

DeathReaper wrote:"Is there a RAW allowance though?"

Maybe, It depends on how you view P.110

"these unique individuals, who stand out from normal characters" P.110

Standing out from normal, means that special characters are a subset of characters.

Oh I agree with you and that is how I would play it, but implied subsets of things created some of the worst threads here in 5th ed.
It is stupid that the characters section didn't make it clearer.

PG 110 defines a special character as having "a personal name instead of just a title." Therefore, all named individuals are characters.

PanzerLeader wrote:PG 110 defines a special character as having "a personal name instead of just a title." Therefore, all named individuals are characters.

It also makes note that they have to be Unique. It was hotly contested for a while if Doom of Mal or Deathleaper were characters until we found that section.

Gloomfang wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:PG 110 defines a special character as having "a personal name instead of just a title." Therefore, all named individuals are characters.

It also makes note that they have to be Unique. It was hotly contested for a while if Doom of Mal or Deathleaper were characters until we found that section.

Yup. I think that is the part that makes it so clear. From page 110: "these unique individuals, who stand out from normal characters because they have a personal name and not just a title, are called special characters." This means that names are no longer just fluffy, they identify a model as a special character. This means he/she/it benefits from the character rules AND follow the additional rules for special characters as seen on 110 (Unique, Warlord Traits). It also makes it clear that Doom, Deathleaper, Old One Eye, Yarrik and other named characters can never be duplicated in an army.

Bjorn the Fell-Handed does have the 'unique' type.
So is would be enough to count him as a character?
A Dreadnought fighting challenges and having Precise Shoots, nice!

grendel083 wrote:Bjorn the Fell-Handed does have the 'unique' type.
So is would be enough to count him as a character?
A Dreadnought fighting challenges and having Precise Shoots, nice!

I say yes. However - and I know you can't with Bjorn anyway because he can't join a unit - it should be pointed out a vehicle character cannot take advantage of Look Out, Sir! since you can't "wound" a vehicle.
Not sure if that'd apply to Sammael of the Ravenwing, as I don't have C: DA.

grendel083 wrote:Bjorn the Fell-Handed does have the 'unique' type.
So is would be enough to count him as a character?
A Dreadnought fighting challenges and having Precise Shoots, nice!

I'd say yes. Bjorn is a named model and therefore a special character.