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As the title says.

Are they artillery? If yes, then this is re-friggin-diculous, as any unit with an artillery piece uses the toughness of the artillery piece. 50 conscripts getting T7 with a 2+ incoming! cover save? No way.

Are they emplacements? If yes, then they fall under the rules for buildings. Tell me, what is the AV of the building that the gun emplacement is in? How many people can fit inside said building? Where are its access points? If no one can fit in the building, does that mean it can only fire with auto-fire?

This seems to be a pretty serious hole in the rules. Can anybody provide a RAW answer to this?

Its a fortification that gives a 4+ cover save to units behind it. And they can not be destroyed

Page 104-5 on battlefield debris...

Marshall Ragnar wrote:And they can not be destroyed

Is it really just because GW forgot to make rules for how to attack it?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Page 104-5 on battlefield debris...

Where does it say that a fortification's emplacements use the rules for debris?

Ailaros wrote:As the title says.

Are they artillery? If yes, then this is re-friggin-diculous, as any unit with an artillery piece uses the toughness of the artillery piece. 50 conscripts getting T7 with a 2+ incoming! cover save? No way.

Are they emplacements? If yes, then they fall under the rules for buildings. Tell me, what is the AV of the building that the gun emplacement is in? How many people can fit inside said building? Where are its access points? If no one can fit in the building, does that mean it can only fire with auto-fire?

This seems to be a pretty serious hole in the rules. Can anybody provide a RAW answer to this?

From what I can piece together an Aegis Defense Line falls under the rules for 'Battlefield Debris (Defense Line)'. So it forms a piece of difficult terrain that offers a 4+ cover save and a +2 bonus for going to ground.

If the ADL has a gun emplacement, the gun itself can be targeting by both shooting and assault. The gun emplacement does not give it's toughness to the model shooting it or the models within the terrain from what I can tell, and the ADL does not classify as a building at all. That is my two cents anyway.

Marshall Ragnar wrote:Its a fortification that gives a 4+ cover save to units behind it. And they can not be destroyed

Page 114 clearly states what an ADL is. It is 'battlefield debris (defense line)'.

Pages 104-105 go on to clarify what those terms mean and also what a gun emplacement is, that it can be targeted in shooting and assault, what it's toughness is, how many wounds it has, and what kind of save it has.

Edit: I may have misinterpreted what you were saying Marshall. You are correct if you are saying that the defense line can not be destroyed. The gun emplacement, if there is one can be destroyed though. Sorry if I had a case of comprehension fail there.

Because they are Gun Emplacements, and those are the rules for Gun Emplacements.

Ailaros wrote:

Marshall Ragnar wrote:And they can not be destroyed

Is it really just because GW forgot to make rules for how to attack it?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Page 104-5 on battlefield debris...

Where does it say that a fortification's emplacements use the rules for debris?

Maybe they intended on those items to be indestructible?

Guess you missed that the Aegis is classified as battlefield debris on pg 114?

All terrain, save buildings, are indestructible, so the Aegis defense line being indestructible is not surprising, as it is not a building.

It says clearly on pg 105 what rules apply to "gun emplacements". The Quad and Icarus are gun emplacements.

The Aegis is battlefield debris. Basiclly terrain. Don't think you can destroy terrain.

They're 2 seperate issues. And only the gun emplacements could be targeted.

The gun emplacement isn't in any building. It is a single artillery model. Nothing can be part of its unit, it can't be part of anyone else's unit.

How do I kill it?
I don't. I kill everyone near it at take it as my own.

Allied scout bikers choose it as the terrain to hide cluster mines in.
Then I drop some mortar and earth shaker rounds inside the wall to barrage around the cover save.

-Matt

Sorry to jump in but if i have a flier parked near the wall so all my guns point down and i can see half the unit do they still het a coversave ?

Crimson-King2120 wrote:Sorry to jump in but if i have a flier parked near the wall so all my guns point down and i can see half the unit do they still het a coversave ?

you can only kill the ones you can see.

The closest model gets hit and if you can see 100% of him he does not get a cover save. If he is at least 25% hidden he gets a cover save from whatever is covering him. roll saves from there and remove models as needed.

Repeat this process until there are no more wounds in the wound pool, or no more models in LoS.

Crimson-King2120 wrote:Sorry to jump in but if i have a flier parked near the wall so all my guns point down and i can see half the unit do they still het a coversave ?

Flyers do not have special line of sight rules.


Can the gun actually point at the model?
If the gun cannot swivle at all, you assume a 45 degree swivle.
If in line of sight, you'd apply hits to the closest model that the gun can see.
If the closest model is 25% or move obscured, you get a cover save.

You could choose to focus fire, and hits would be applied to models in line of sight and the open.

Depending on how the Aegis will is set up, you may be able to straiff down the length of the wall ignoring the cover.
It's why I like Valkyries, 6 heavy bolter shots and 2 large blasts clean out defensive lines pretty good.

-Matt

Ailaros: Clarification needed.

Are you asking how to destroy the Line, or the Gun emplacement?


If the Line itself; you cannot.

If it is the Gun(purchased along with the line); then using the rules for Gun Emplacements on page 105.

HawaiiMatt wrote:How do I kill it?
I don't. I kill everyone near it at take it as my own.

Allied scout bikers choose it as the terrain to hide cluster mines in.
Then I drop some mortar and earth shaker rounds inside the wall to barrage around the cover save.

-Matt

Is that even possible? Cluster mines can only be placed in area terrain and I don't think that the quad-gun is area terrain.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Ailaros: Clarification needed.

Are you asking how to destroy the Line, or the Gun emplacement?


If the Line itself; you cannot.

If it is the Gun(purchased along with the line); then using the rules for Gun Emplacements on page 105.

Sounds alot like what I said?

gaovinni wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:How do I kill it?
I don't. I kill everyone near it at take it as my own.

Allied scout bikers choose it as the terrain to hide cluster mines in.
Then I drop some mortar and earth shaker rounds inside the wall to barrage around the cover save.

-Matt

Is that even possible? Cluster mines can only be placed in area terrain and I don't think that the quad-gun is area terrain.

It's not. It's a gun emplacement.

alarmingrick wrote:

gaovinni wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:How do I kill it?
I don't. I kill everyone near it at take it as my own.

Allied scout bikers choose it as the terrain to hide cluster mines in.
Then I drop some mortar and earth shaker rounds inside the wall to barrage around the cover save.

-Matt

Is that even possible? Cluster mines can only be placed in area terrain and I don't think that the quad-gun is area terrain.

It's not. It's a gun emplacement.

Thought so. Do they actually even count as terrain? (don't own the 6th ed rulebook myself... yet)

gaovinni wrote:

Thought so. Do they actually even count as terrain? (don't own the 6th ed rulebook myself... yet)

Aegis wall is terrain. The rules are in the terrain section.

I missed the "area" part, so no, you cannot mine the enemies defensive line.
Too bad, it would be funny.

I guess I'll just have to place area terrain inside your Aegis line during terrain deployment then, and cluster mine "That".

-Matt

gaovinni wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:

gaovinni wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:How do I kill it?
I don't. I kill everyone near it at take it as my own.

Allied scout bikers choose it as the terrain to hide cluster mines in.
Then I drop some mortar and earth shaker rounds inside the wall to barrage around the cover save.

-Matt

Is that even possible? Cluster mines can only be placed in area terrain and I don't think that the quad-gun is area terrain.

It's not. It's a gun emplacement.

Thought so. Do they actually even count as terrain? (don't own the 6th ed rulebook myself... yet)

No, but models behind them get a cover save.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

gaovinni wrote:

Thought so. Do they actually even count as terrain? (don't own the 6th ed rulebook myself... yet)

Aegis wall is terrain. The rules are in the terrain section.

I missed the "area" part, so no, you cannot mine the enemies defensive line.
Too bad, it would be funny.

I guess I'll just have to place area terrain inside your Aegis line during terrain deployment then, and cluster mine "That".

-Matt

I'll stick to the 3" of free space you have to leave between terrain.