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So, lots of people are figuring out how awesome aegis lines are. It allows you to keep that good old 4+ cover saves (which vehicles can now take advantage of), and you have a lot of flexibility, which means you get the cover in the shape you want it, in the location you want it. Plus, it gives you access to a hydra. All for a very reasonable points cost.

It feels like the level of rabid madness is just starting to set in. I'm envisioning a world wherein most people consider them an auto-include in ever list (unless you want a bigger fort). I'm envisioning a world wherein people spread out aegis lines and give basically their entire army 4+ cover saves and spend almost the whole game plinking with static gunlines. Add in that most assault armies took a serious nerf and shooting is now universally better (and that mech lists are now better than most foot lists), and I'm envisioning a nightmare scenario where we return to 3rd ed gunline fights with practically no movement until the end of the game.

Is this fear going to come to pass? I don't want to play a game against a gunline EVERY GAME, as that will get me to quit playing 6th in a hurry (which is a shame, as I just spent all this time and money getting ready for it), as it's going to be way too boring, personally, to run a gunline myself, and it's going to be just too much of an uphill battle trying to be extra flexible against these hypothetical-turned-real castles of doom. The only thing worse than playing against gunlines is losing to gunlines.

Is it really going to be aegishammer?

I'm definitely noticing my lists leaning much more heavily to gunline play, but this is IG we're talking about, that's just how our army is played. However, when friggin ORKS are talking about walking up to the midfield and just shooting all game, something is wrong (go read the ork tactics thread, you'd be amazed how many lists are turning into this.

I'll also agree that most people are taking aegis lines at my club, but I wonder if that's more just because of the novelty of it. Being able to buy your own cover is pretty tempting, and some of the things you can do with it is just ridiculous (Leman russes with camo netting for example, IG can now have a 180pt leman russ with a +3 cover save.... yeah let that sink in) It's also the cheapest fortification, pointswise and cashwise, so I'd imagine that has something to do with it too. And it just covers so much more of your army. Yeah a bastion is cool and all, but it can only hold a couple of units. An aegis can cover an entire friggin army.

Funny, im the only one at my club who is
but no one else wants to buy it, despite the fact that on multiple occasions i have cripple flyers on their turns.

Well, they are the least expensive (points and cash) and most portable fortification option and the one with the least complications (outside of the discussion on your other thread about this). So, what's wrong with it? Since so many player slavishly hooked on to cover saves in 5e, this will be a godsend, as they no longer have to think about the 5+ save. And for skyfire-weak armies (all but IG), it provides a cheap air defense system.

Not bad for a $30 box of plastic...

They are cheaper points wise than a Big Mek with KKF and don't use up an HQ slot and the save is 1 better to boot. For anyone who ever took a Big Mek to protect their lootas, the Aegis is a bargain.

I've seen a few places in my own lists where the Aegis could easily find a home. I haven't broken down and got one yet, but its starting to become more and more tempting.

Another reason why I think Aegis defense lines are going to be popular is that it's 50 points that are easy to scratch-build, either from generic plasticard or from spare parts lying about the place. Orks? They can use the (cheaper IIRC) "Ork Barricade" set that was sold for awhile, or just "weld" together a bunch of spare plating from vehicles. I built an Eldar "force field" Aegis out of a picture frame.

I just took more twin linked.

You're being very reactionary and alarmist lately. Have you actually been playing any games or just speculating?

Jayden63 wrote: I haven't broken down and got one yet

And this really encapsulates my fear.

If aegises are something that you have to actively resist taking, then it's not going to take long before everybody except for a handful of principled weirdos (like me) has them in all of their lists all the time. If it becomes default to take them, it will become default to play in the way that they reward you for playing. Players will BECOME aegis players. Once engrained, it will be extremely difficult to convince people to play differently.

Just like how mech madness took over 5th, I'm genuinely afraid that aegisosis will plague our tables for the next half decade...

DarknessEternal wrote:...or just speculating?

Just speculating.

This is more of a reasoned fear than a carefully crafted viewpoint. I have unusually strong groupthink sensors, and they're already tingling on this one.

Just speculating.

This is more of a reasoned fear than a carefully crafted viewpoint. I have unusually strong groupthink sensors, and they're already tingling on this one.

You've been "Speculating" about a ton of things, first you said snipers will rule the board, than you said mech is king, now you said Aegishammer..

My honest opinion? Play an actual game, your theories at this point have varied so wildly that I literally think you need an actual game to either calm yourself, or to get better prospective.

If that happens... I propably need to field less scouts and more stuff that can utilize a drop pod. And my thunderfire cannon would see more use (as it already will).

Honestly I am planning on getting one of those aegis defence lines but not going to be fielding it unless playing a huge game. I just want one along with a bastion and a skyshield landing pad for the shelf where I keep my marines to make it look like a small outpost when I'm not using them.

Ailaros wrote:I have unusually strong groupthink sensors, and they're already tingling on this one.

Is that like Spidey-sense?

Seeing how disgustingly strong flyers are, is there any reason for not taking at least the cheapest available AA defense? A Necron flying circus with three Doom Scythes will proceed to cripple your forces in short order unless you can make them Jink so they have to forgo firing the Death Ray next turn. You need something with a bit of punch for that - not every flyer can be glanced by basic bolters, and those will be using snap shots.

Well, they'll be popular until the other side of douchebaggery kicks in, people start using the recommended amount of terrain, and use it to block any decent use of the aegis line by filling your deployment zone with terrain before you even get to place the aegis.

There is also the thing that when new codexes start coming in the aegis might start getting a tad bit less common depending on the armies and their new rules.

-Loki- wrote:Well, they'll be popular until the other side of douchebaggery kicks in, people start using the recommended amount of terrain, and use it to block any decent use of the aegis line by filling your deployment zone with terrain before you even get to place the aegis.

You place Fortifications before you place terrain.

Well its not like an aegis line can't be countered. All the artillery guard has can ignore it (since its not area terrain) and in order to utilize it effectively, you have to crowd your army behind it. It will also make an opponent less mobile, whether they want to be or not, giving mobile armies the option to roam freely across the board and try to outflank them. Plus, deepstrikers won't care, and will be able to decimate packed in units cowering behind it.

Will we see it a lot in the beginning? Oh yeah, it's already a common sight in my area. But once counters start to pop up I think it will calm down a bit

Jayden63 wrote:They are cheaper points wise than a Big Mek with KKF and don't use up an HQ slot and the save is 1 better to boot. For anyone who ever took a Big Mek to protect their lootas, the Aegis is a bargain.

I can't think of many players who would ever do this; there should be at least one decent piece of cover in your deployment zone already to stick Lootas into. It's great for that, but the Big Mek niche of giving saves to vehicles on the move remains unchallenged.

I don't quite know if they're autoincludes in armies, but they're very, very efficient. I haven't taken one in any of my lists, but at my game club we haven't been doing the alternating terrain setup rules for time constraint reasons. We just set up reasonably balanced terrain and let fly. I can't say I wouldn't have appreciated one during my game this week though.

even with terrain blocking alot of the aegis line, it's almost impossible to completely stop that thing though since you can stretch it out quite far. Also allows you then take advantage of increased LOS blocking to protect some vital objectives (as they are placed later) to force assault units into fire lanes or cause more deep strike mishaps or if in a corner, prevent placement of outflanking forces

Honestly though, after several games already, mobility has been more and more of a concern. This fear of static hammer really doesn't prove true in practice. You can have a fancy gunline all you want but you still need to get out there to grab objectives which with mysterious objectives have been really OP in what happens to units near them a good chunk of time.

Screw the aegis, I get ignore cover from psy power + sky fire or 2+ rerollable armor or a 4++ or all sorts of craziness.

sudojoe wrote:Honestly though, after several games already, mobility has been more and more of a concern. This fear of static hammer really doesn't prove true in practice. You can have a fancy gunline all you want but you still need to get out there to grab objectives which with mysterious objectives have been really OP in what happens to units near them a good chunk of time.

Mobility has been essential in my experience too. Yeah one squad of my marines (or my IG) may stay back with heavy weapons but my dark eldar usually don't have time to sit around doing nothing. They really need to move.

I just stick my heavy weapons behind them. and snipers.
But then again my list is designed to deny you the ability to capture your own objectives.

Time will tell but I think the OP has a valid point. So far I have only played against one person using an aegis line (Tau), but I can see the value in it for different armies. A nid army with a bunch of stuff on the board that has to slog its way to the enemy might very much enjoy having a 4+ stretching in a long line rather than smaller 5+ patches or open areas where large and/or vulnerable units with crappy saves can have many models of the unit focus fired into oblivion. It is tempting for that alone. If it works well for such an army would it likely not become almost an auto-include since it is cheap game-wise and money wise?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Just speculating.

This is more of a reasoned fear than a carefully crafted viewpoint. I have unusually strong groupthink sensors, and they're already tingling on this one.

You've been "Speculating" about a ton of things, first you said snipers will rule the board, than you said mech is king, now you said Aegishammer..

My honest opinion? Play an actual game, your theories at this point have varied so wildly that I literally think you need an actual game to either calm yourself, or to get better prospective.

Have to agree lol .

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Play an actual game

I believe in objective truth.

In this case, of course, I'm expressing a concern, not proposing a theory based on sound deduction.

gaovinni wrote:If that happens... I propably need to field less scouts and more stuff that can utilize a drop pod. And my thunderfire cannon would see more use (as it already will).

MrMoustaffa wrote:Well its not like an aegis line can't be countered. All the artillery guard has can ignore it (since its not area terrain) and in order to utilize it effectively, you have to crowd your army behind it. It will also make an opponent less mobile, whether they want to be or not, giving mobile armies the option to roam freely across the board and try to outflank them. Plus, deepstrikers won't care, and will be able to decimate packed in units cowering behind it.

I suppose IF my fears come to pass, what would that mean? Deepstrikers and artillery, both of which also got better.

God thing I just ordered some kasrkin...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Well, they'll be popular until the other side of douchebaggery kicks in, people start using the recommended amount of terrain, and use it to block any decent use of the aegis line by filling your deployment zone with terrain before you even get to place the aegis.

You place Fortifications before you place terrain.

Right. Your opponent places an aegis, and when it's my turn to place terrain I put a ruin, or, better yet, a wall that blocks LOS right in front of it.

I have more than one borderline TFG at my FLGS. I think that's probably going to be my best recourse.

gaovinni wrote:Mobility has been essential in my experience too. Yeah one squad of my marines (or my IG) may stay back with heavy weapons but my dark eldar usually don't have time to sit around doing nothing. They really need to move.

Then perhaps ultradoom 3rd ed castles might not be the results, but merely 4th ed supercastles?

It's like any other gunline type thing: entirely beaten by mobility.

Also, there's nothing quite like the indignity of being killed by your own fortification. Last night, I paid 50 points for a quad-gun that did 2 hull points of damage for me, and wiped out 2 units for my opponent after he took from me like a bully taking some nerdy kid's lunch money.

Sure, gunlines are stronger. Sure, the aegis provides cheap cover and anti-air. Will every army hide every model behind one? Of course not. Flyers are massively important and incredibly manoeuvrable, transports will now keep rolling forward thanks to glances removing hull points instead of shaking, and jump infantry got stronger (gargoyles are big, baby). Having played ten games of 6th so far, I can happily say that they are not (in my opinion) static.

You cant take anothers turret, its an enemy model that cant be moved within on inch of.

Deepstriking kasrkin right behind the enemies who are cowering behind the aegis. Doesn't that sound fun? That AP3 hotshot lasgun helps too.

And those super castles? The game tables would start smelling like... cheeeeeese.

There are soooo many things in 6th edition that counter the Aegis line that it isn't going to dominate the game at all.

If someone gets behind your Aegis line and fires at your troops, you do not benefit from the cover...easy to do.

If someone uses Multiple Barrage weapons against your troops behind an Aegis line the cover you get comes from where the hole in the blast marker lands, not your Aegis line, unless your Aegis line is between the model and the hole in the blast marker.

If someone has access to cover ignoring weaponry such as flamers, heavy flamers, etc, you don't get the Aegis cover save and it is useless.

Same thing for someone with cover ignoring psychic powers or granted abilities like Crack Shot from Dark Reapers.

Aegis lines don't work well to give your guys cover when you have to move out of them to grab objectives.

Trust me, your panic is not founded in any way. You are over reacting to a silly little 100 point model.

hotsauceman1 wrote:You cant take anothers turret, its an enemy model that cant be moved within on inch of.

You absolutely can.

It's a piece of terrain, not an enemy model.

Stealing an enemy's gun is hilarious.

Almost as hilarious as placing a large LoS blocking ruin or building in front of the turret, since, well. It's deployed before terrain, so you get to modify the board after it's placed.

I had a razorwing flock operating a quad gun today, just for feths and giggles. Tore the guts out of my opponent's two vendettas when they came in on his following turns.