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In the unit entries for units like Death Cult Assassins, it says that they have power-weapons. In 6th edition, what does that mean? Do you get free pick of which you get to give them through Wysiwyg? Could I potentially have DC Assassins with PLance/PSword combe each for example to give them benefits from both types of "power weapon"?

Absolutely. That is a good combo. I also like power axe/power sword. If you need to strike at initiative you can, but if you need a little extra power you use the axe. And you always get the +1 attack.

Another great addition on this same point is specialist weapons. Lightning claw thunder hammer combo is amazing for the same reason listed above.

Oh, Wow cool! Thanks for the speedy response!

This further adds leverage to convincing myself to convert my small entourage of Eldar into DC Assassins.

Power weapons got a small nerf (most are AP3) but the flexibility I think more than makes up for it. Good luck with the conversions.

There is some contention with that.

The rule says to look at the model, it does not say to modify the model to have whatever you want.

Converting models for in-game advantages is normally frowned upon.

coredump wrote:There is some contention with that.

The rule says to look at the model, it does not say to modify the model to have whatever you want.

Converting models for in-game advantages is normally frowned upon.

None of the official DCA models are WYSIWYG. One of them only has one Power Weapon and the other one has two non-powered knives, thus no Power Weapon at all.

coredump wrote:There is some contention with that.

The rule says to look at the model, it does not say to modify the model to have whatever you want.

Converting models for in-game advantages is normally frowned upon.

But there's a world of difference between Modelling For Advantage (which is frowned upon) and Modelling For Wargear.

MFA is basically modifying the model so that you get ingame benefits, either from changing the size and profile model or placing of the guns and other vehicle options.
For example converting Tyranid MC as crawling creature so that it's easier to get cover save for it or to shorten flying stand of a flyer so that it's easier to get cover for it.

But MFW has always been standard operating procedure. Example of MFW is giving flamer for (C:SM) Assault Marine, as there is no flamer in the Assault Marine Box and GW doesn't sell Assault Marine with flamer.

As far as rules are concerned, there's no difference in between modelling your Assault Marine with flamer and modelling your DCA to have Power Sword and Power Axe. Both are legal wargear options and both require converting a model and thus both are equally (un)acceptable.

I was just talking about this with a friend who plans on running some DC. I think choosing any of the PW options would be fine (at least until a FAQ says otherwise). But I believe you can only choose one weapon to use each round, no double stacking of PW abilities.

Judging from:

A) 'Power sword' entry for several codices have been changed to 'power weapon' to indicate that they have the option to choose.

B) Hyperphase sword has been changed from 'power weapon' to 'power sword'(ebook), indicating that your hyperphase sword can't be a hyperphase axe/maul/spear.

Then one can say that if they haven't FAQ'd anyone's 'power weapon' to say 'power <type>' then you can choose whatever you want, not MFA at all.

Texanity wrote:I was just talking about this with a friend who plans on running some DC. I think choosing any of the PW options would be fine (at least until a FAQ says otherwise). But I believe you can only choose one weapon to use each round, no double stacking of PW abilities.

I know that you cannot stack abilities of weapons, that has been standard for a while. What I meant was that I have the sword for if I need the ap without a crutch and I have the lance in the other hand to take on bigger stuff. Aragorn versus Cave Troll in the movie of FOTR did a similar thing. His sword was for goblins and he used the spear against the troll.

For conversions I am going to use DE Wyches as the base model and convert heavily on the weapons, heads, and the stray exposed midsection.

coredump wrote:There is some contention with that.

The rule says to look at the model, it does not say to modify the model to have whatever you want.

Converting models for in-game advantages is normally frowned upon.

Converting a model to allow it to take advantage of a rule that GW allows you to take advantage of is bad how?

Captain Antivas wrote:Converting a model to allow it to take advantage of a rule that GW allows you to take advantage of is bad how?

It is bad for the enemy.

Da Kommizzar wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:Converting a model to allow it to take advantage of a rule that GW allows you to take advantage of is bad how?

It is bad for the enemy.

I have never understood the argument that making a conversion to get the ability to take advantage of a rule you would otherwise not be able to use. GW says I can do X, I don't have a model that does X, so I make one. And this is frowned upon? Blame GW for saying I can do that not me for doing it. If my rules say I can do it, then I make a model that allows me to do it, then it is legal and you cannot tell me I cannot do it. The rule says I look to the model. That means whatever I have on my model I can take. An Honor Guard comes from GW with many options for different power weapons. I can model my unit to look how I want using the options given to me by GW. If I choose to give them all power axes I can do that because the rules say I can.

Yeah that is it, you have it right. (From what the majority are saying)

Captain Antivas wrote:I have never understood the argument that making a conversion to get the ability to take advantage of a rule you would otherwise not be able to use.

Because it is converting models to gain an advantage you would otherwise not have, and that is the definition of MFA.

People view it as cheating, because the stock models will not gain a cover save from the normal sized space marine, but they will gain cover or even be out of LoS if that marine is carrying a HUGE banner that block LoS to the vehicles behind the banner.

DeathReaper wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:I have never understood the argument that making a conversion to get the ability to take advantage of a rule you would otherwise not be able to use.

Because it is converting models to gain an advantage you would otherwise not have, and that is the definition of MFA.

People view it as cheating, because the stock models will not gain a cover save from the normal sized space marine, but they will gain cover or even be out of LoS if that marine is carrying a HUGE banner that block LoS to the vehicles behind the banner.

What "advantage you would otherwise not have"? That they're supposed to be wielding power sword per 5th ed rules? Well, just as GW has changed a lot of "power sword" entries to say "power weapon", but changed some "power weapon" to say "power sword", it's an indication that when it says "power weapon", you can take one of the four. So unless there is a rule that says "x unit can only use a sword", why is it modelling for advantage that they're just playing by the rules? Or are you saying any unit that previously has the "power sword" option has to stay with the power sword regardless of what changes GW made? Inconsistencies aside, GW still holds the authority over the rules, if they hadn't change x unit's power weapon option to says a specific type, it is safe to assume that means we can use any of the four.

And power axe is NOT a superior choice for all situation... There is no advantage here when you're sacrificing your I for AP2. Each power weapon has their ups and downs, with the exception of lance, which I have no idea why anyone would want that...

Baronyu wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:I have never understood the argument that making a conversion to get the ability to take advantage of a rule you would otherwise not be able to use.

Because it is converting models to gain an advantage you would otherwise not have, and that is the definition of MFA.

People view it as cheating, because the stock models will not gain a cover save from the normal sized space marine, but they will gain cover or even be out of LoS if that marine is carrying a HUGE banner that block LoS to the vehicles behind the banner.

What "advantage you would otherwise not have"?

I was not speaking specifically about the DCA, I was talking in general.

Such as making a Battlewagon twice as wide as the stock model to try and claim a larger front armor arc. MFA.

Modeling a Space Marine Banner guy so that his banner is a 8 and a half by 11 piece of paper and claiming it blocks LoS to everything behind the paper. MFA

Etc.

The DCA are fine to be converted, and in fact must be to be legal as the stock models do not have the correct wargear.

DeathReaper wrote:
Modeling a Space Marine Banner guy so that his banner is a 8 and a half by 11 piece of paper and claiming it blocks LoS to everything behind the paper. MFA

Which doesn't matter, as banners are ignored for LoS.

That only applies for the model with the banner.

Models behind the banner get the benefit of LoS blockage as normal.

"Sometimes, all that will be visible of a model is a weapon, banner or other ornament he is carrying. In these cases, the model is not visible."

They are talking about banners not counting if you can only see the banner and not any other part of the model.

DeathReaper wrote:I was not speaking specifically about the DCA, I was talking in general.

Such as making a Battlewagon twice as wide as the stock model to try and claim a larger front armor arc. MFA.

Modeling a Space Marine Banner guy so that his banner is a 8 and a half by 11 piece of paper and claiming it blocks LoS to everything behind the paper. MFA

Etc.

The DCA are fine to be converted, and in fact must be to be legal as the stock models do not have the correct wargear.

Ah, my apologies then.

DeathReaper wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:I have never understood the argument that making a conversion to get the ability to take advantage of a rule you would otherwise not be able to use.

Because it is converting models to gain an advantage you would otherwise not have, and that is the definition of MFA.

People view it as cheating, because the stock models will not gain a cover save from the normal sized space marine, but they will gain cover or even be out of LoS if that marine is carrying a HUGE banner that block LoS to the vehicles behind the banner.

I can see that making sense. Modeling for advantage is not giving my Honor Guard all power axes, or convert my Vanguard Veterans to have all plasma pistols and power weapons. That was my point. The rules say every member of my Vanguard Veteran squad can have a plasma pistol and power weapon. If I convert them to have it I am not breaking any rules. My comment was in reference to the comment that converting a power sword to a power axe is illegal and I cannot accept that.

I say Op should be OK with the two different weapons but would you get +1 attack?
Side note : my Chaplin has a cros...crosemus...mace thingy and a power fist and that's a GW model.

Without specialist USR, yes, you'd get A+1 for 2 CCW. But the 2nd special CCW will only be treated as CCW, so you won't get the charge bonus on power lance should you field power lance + sword for example. You choose which one you use.

As for your side note, nope, as power fist has the specialist USR.

Baronyu wrote:Without specialist USR, yes, you'd get A+1 for 2 CCW. But the 2nd special CCW will only be treated as CCW, so you won't get the charge bonus on power lance should you field power lance + sword for example. You choose which one you use.

As for your side note, nope, as power fist has the specialist USR.

Eh no, any power weapon pair will get the 2 CCW bonus since none of them have specialist but yes you will have to choose the profile you use. So lance on the charge and sword from the on.

There was already a very heated thread on this that went on agonizingly for 10 pages with the consensus that this can't be answered in a general sense on this forum, it needs to be addressed at the table based on the model.

liturgies of blood wrote:

Baronyu wrote:Without specialist USR, yes, you'd get A+1 for 2 CCW. But the 2nd special CCW will only be treated as CCW, so you won't get the charge bonus on power lance should you field power lance + sword for example. You choose which one you use.

As for your side note, nope, as power fist has the specialist USR.

Eh no, any power weapon pair will get the 2 CCW bonus since none of them have specialist but yes you will have to choose the profile you use. So lance on the charge and sword from the on.

We're saying the same, no? May be you worded it better than I did...? The turn you assault, you use lance, the next turn you use sword.

Ok, I just was a little confused about your wording.

My apology then.

Ok, thanks for the clarifications and both sides of arguements, it is all very helpful. The nice thing here, my Imp sergeants can take Power Lance rules. (I have a sergeant holding a power-spear that I converted a long time ago with the knight from Weapons and Warriors)

TBH Lance/sword combo sounds pretty lackluster, both weapons are AP 3 on the charge anyway, and DCA aren't exactly a tarpit unit, so you shouldn't be needing too many attacks after the turn you charge in. Personally I think a power maul/power sword, or power lance/power axe or something is a better combo since power maul gives you +2 strength, with tons of attacks, while a power sword offers versatility, a power lance and power axe both offer +1 strength (only on the charge for the lance) which is a nice boost for such a low strength unit.