Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't know how well most WHFB players follow 40K but I wasn't expecting to see allies featuring in 40K, it honestly came across as something I would more then likely see in Fantasy. That said now its in 40K I think its only a matter of time really before they put it into WHFB and in all fairness it would be quite nice to use daemons and chaos together once more, but what are the chances of them really doing this? I mean, a lot of Fantasy armies look like they would never merge yet the same could be said of the 40k combinations @.@

Well we do have a ally system of sorts, and i works okay for 2vs2 and such. However I highly doubt we will see anything like the system in 40k introduced to WHFB

Trondheim wrote:Well we do have a ally system of sorts, and i works okay for 2vs2 and such. However I highly doubt we will see anything like the system in 40k introduced to WHFB

I'm undecided, I really miss chaos daemons being able to be alongside warriors of chaos - Things like that just made sense? But at the same time if they did bring in something similar to they did in 40K it would basically have a globally accessible alliance deal going on.


I'm not that knowledgeable of WHFB though would it be game breaking to allow one army to make use of a 2 troops HQ and 1 other from a different book? So long as it doesn't break army organization like it does in 40K ¬.¬

Well two units of 60 Marauders with Mok and flails + a choppy chaos lord + a regular lets say a Daemon of Khorne army this would lead to a rather unpleasant experience army to face.

WoK with insane melee forces (marauders, warriors) and a unit of Tzeentch Demons...people would explode in anger

Allies are already in WFB. The difference is that 40k took the word 'optional' as obligatory, but when 8th came out people were too busy arguing over core concepts - see ETC rules - to even consider allies.

I asked this same question a few weeks ago, and was firmly told that they have no place... something to do with effective builds or some such.

But my ogres rather like the idea of having some cheap goblin shamans, and maybe the odd savage orc mob... or a bit of life magic....

Sigvatr wrote:WoK with insane melee forces (marauders, warriors) and a unit of Tzeentch Demons...people would explode in anger

Imagine the rage but oh how fun it would be

marielle wrote:Allies are already in WFB. The difference is that 40k took the word 'optional' as obligatory, but when 8th came out people were too busy arguing over core concepts - see ETC rules - to even consider allies.

I asked this same question a few weeks ago, and was firmly told that they have no place... something to do with effective builds or some such.

But my ogres rather like the idea of having some cheap goblin shamans, and maybe the odd savage orc mob... or a bit of life magic....

The Allies rules in Fantasy don't share anything with the Allies rules in 40K. Allies rules in Fantasy are written to be multiple armies and how those 2+ armies interact, not a detachment of allies added to your army like 40K.

Platuan4th wrote:

marielle wrote:Allies are already in WFB. The difference is that 40k took the word 'optional' as obligatory, but when 8th came out people were too busy arguing over core concepts - see ETC rules - to even consider allies.

I asked this same question a few weeks ago, and was firmly told that they have no place... something to do with effective builds or some such.

But my ogres rather like the idea of having some cheap goblin shamans, and maybe the odd savage orc mob... or a bit of life magic....

The Allies rules in Fantasy don't share anything with the Allies rules in 40K. Allies rules in Fantasy are written to be multiple armies and how those 2+ armies interact, not a detachment of allies added to your army like 40K.

The allies rules function pretty much the same in both systems.

And while it is true that the preamble says it is for multiple players, there is no reason that multiple players are needed.

I'm betting that they implement something like that into the next edition. It's a brilliant marketing ploy, helps you to justify buying those necrons you'd always thought of buying, or wood elves as the case may be. Not to mention it opens a whole bunch of new lists (which will eventually be narrowed down in the quest for the one list to rule them all and in the douchebaggery bind them) but all the same, I'll bet they implement something along those lines for fantasy, if not in FAQ, then by the next edition.

Allies in Fantesy are designed for multi-player battles and how they interact. They were not written in any way like the 40k ally system.

They do work for one player playing 2 seperate legal armies though it is a house rule to work it like that.



Normally, you can't take allies in Fantesy.

Allies in Fantasy? No thanks.

I don't want to see Black Guard brofisting Swordmasters of Hoeth after totally wiping out a unit of Goblins, which is what would probably end up happening due to GWs seeming disregard for their own fluff when it comes to the Allies rules in 40K.

It'd be slowed for those of us with completely converted armies. In order for me to play now, I have to stipulate that we ignore those pages.

It just doesn't make sense that my completely. Converted to be undead empire army wouldn't work along side vampire counts.........

A Town Called Malus wrote:Allies in Fantasy? No thanks.

I don't want to see Black Guard brofisting Swordmasters of Hoeth after totally wiping out a unit of Goblins, which is what would probably end up happening due to GWs seeming disregard for their own fluff when it comes to the Allies rules in 40K.

All the allies in 40k make sense fluffwise. Maybe the level of ally is off in some places but it does make sense.

Fantesy has more rigid hatred that makes alliances implausable.

Grey Templar wrote:Fantesy has more rigid hatred that makes alliances implausable.

Didn't we say this about 40k a few months ago?

I really don't see a problem with allies if people who want to do it don't cheese it out. I hope GW puts a new updated section in a WD or something detailing more specific army alliance standings with each other rather then the three rather simplistic pools of allegiance, but I doubt it will happen until 9th anyways.

I've been considering asking some of the guys at the store about running my old DoW Golgfag, his Maneaters and some normal Ogres with my Leitpold Empire/Merc army.

Fluff-wise, you can pretty much always justify the use of allies.

My main gripe comes with the gameplay. Sure you can do it fluffy, but most won't. The codices, and armybooks are internally balanced. They're not balanced to get external help.

My lizardmen are close combat behemoths, without warmachines. If I could add in a dwarf cannon, or something to that akin, I'd be great. But I don't have access to it, because it's just not balanced for a 90% close combat army to have long range shooting.

Just imagine this. Fluff-wise someone could play a Dark Elf and Chaos army.

Do we really want to see blocks of Chaos Warriors or Marauders marching down the centre of the board and Hydras marching down the flanks, with Shades hunting war machines whilst Tzeentch Sorcerers and Dark Elf Sorceresses decimate your army with offensive magic and a seemingly endless supply of power dice?

A Town Called Malus wrote:Just imagine this. Fluff-wise someone could play a Dark Elf and Chaos army.

Do we really want to see blocks of Chaos Warriors or Marauders marching down the centre of the board and Hydras marching down the flanks, with Shades hunting war machines whilst Tzeentch Sorcerers and Dark Elf Sorceresses decimate your army with offensive magic and a seemingly endless supply of power dice?

...Kinda? Just to see how well the list will be written

There are allies they are noted in the rulebook. There is also Tamurkhan http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer-Forge-Books/TAMURKHAN-THE-THRONE-OF-CHAOS.html
This contains the rules to make a combined chaos army using WoC, Beastmen, DoC and Chaos Dwarfs and since the book is by Forgeworld it is therefore endorsed by GW much like White Dwarf rules and should apply in all GW tournaments and stores. I do hope they release another book for the good guys a book that combines elves (wood and high), dwarfs and man (empire and brets) with some other unique book such as the Chaos Dwarfs got, maybe a pre-Battle of Hel Fenn Sylvanian/Undead army.

A Town Called Malus wrote:Just imagine this. Fluff-wise someone could play a Dark Elf and Chaos army.

Do we really want to see blocks of Chaos Warriors or Marauders marching down the centre of the board and Hydras marching down the flanks, with Shades hunting war machines whilst Tzeentch Sorcerers and Dark Elf Sorceresses decimate your army with offensive magic and a seemingly endless supply of power dice?

Reminds me of when I was starting to build the Slaaneshi Cult Army back in Storm of Chaos (Good thing I didn't invest further with it).

If I'm not mistaken, Dark Elves and Skaven have Fragile Alliances which means they go from good to neutral to bad allies on 50/50 rolls which could lead to bad things. Also, I believe the two allied wizards have to divide their dice pools equally (though those dirty minxes still get their extras I'm sure).

However, I do get your point. Certain armies could definitely abuse the system right now. Given that 40k allies seem to be gathering quite a bit of steam can only lead one to think that they will push it onto the Fantasy system either in a WD or more likely 9th. Hopefully by that point, certain armies will be more well adjusted and open to this possibility. I am definitely keeping my eyes open as new army books come out with altered characters or rules for cross ally benefits like Golgfag.

Goldshield wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:Just imagine this. Fluff-wise someone could play a Dark Elf and Chaos army.

Do we really want to see blocks of Chaos Warriors or Marauders marching down the centre of the board and Hydras marching down the flanks, with Shades hunting war machines whilst Tzeentch Sorcerers and Dark Elf Sorceresses decimate your army with offensive magic and a seemingly endless supply of power dice?

Reminds me of when I was starting to build the Slaaneshi Cult Army back in Storm of Chaos (Good thing I didn't invest further with it).

You mean you didn't want to end up like with 3000+ points of Cult that's sitting useless other than the Daemons?

Platuan4th wrote:

Goldshield wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:Just imagine this. Fluff-wise someone could play a Dark Elf and Chaos army.

Do we really want to see blocks of Chaos Warriors or Marauders marching down the centre of the board and Hydras marching down the flanks, with Shades hunting war machines whilst Tzeentch Sorcerers and Dark Elf Sorceresses decimate your army with offensive magic and a seemingly endless supply of power dice?

Reminds me of when I was starting to build the Slaaneshi Cult Army back in Storm of Chaos (Good thing I didn't invest further with it).

You mean you didn't want to end up like with 3000+ points of Cult that's sitting useless other than the Daemons?

No, I have half my DoW army that I can't port over to Empire doing that enough for me.

But that is one of the reasons I like allied armies is because you can do these interesting combinations of different units and whatnot coming together either as brothers from other races dedicated to the cause or a 'confederation of self-interests'.

It'll be a standard feature I'd imagine if/when 9th edition rolls around

GW needs more ways to sell you things you usually dont need since you play one army

Y'know, I was just thinking this the other day and, to be honest, I would not be surprised if Allied Detatchment featured in 9th Edition at all.

I guess, if WHFB sticks with the Percentage concept, it'd be something like, your Allied Detatchment can't make up more than 25% of your Army.

One main reason that GW included Allies was to sell us more stuff. This concept carries over into WHFB, so I see little reason for GW not to include Allies (from a GW Point of view).

That said, I do hope they don't feature!

The Shadow wrote:Y'know, I was just thinking this the other day and, to be honest, I would not be surprised if Allied Detatchment featured in 9th Edition at all.

I guess, if WHFB sticks with the Percentage concept, it'd be something like, your Allied Detatchment can't make up more than 25% of your Army.

So, what you're saying is we'll have come full circle and be back to playing 4th/5th but with larger armies?

What I think could work for Fantasy is this- Allied units are treated as being one step "rarer" than usual (So, a core unit would be special, and a special unit would be rare, while rares could not be taken). Likewise, Heroes count as lords. You must also take at least one hero choice, and allied characters can never be the armies general.

There would then be rules about how friendly certain allies are. For example, the different forces of Chaos would work together seamlessly, but will not work with high elves. Ogres would work with everyone, but would never be truly trusted. Meanwhile, corrupt empire nobles will work with chaos, but there is absolutely no love lost.

I don't have a problem with allies but I play firmly outside the competitive side of the game.

For example, my friend has over 3,000 points of Orcs n Goblins but I'm only building up my Dwarf throng so we've never been able to play a larger game. That was until he suggested that I use my Elves from Island of Blood to boost my Dwarfs. Naturally, I resisted because as a Dwarf I mistrust those pointy ears but I ended up having a blast with the army. (magic? A Griffon? My Dwarfs never had any of that.) So much so that I'm going to invest in an Elf Battalion and when it arrives we're planning a rematch with his army incorporating the Skaven.

On another note, I remember when I used to have a chaos army with a unit 20 warriors and 30 Beastmen. (I forget which edition that was) I'd love to be able to recreate that army as much for nostalgia as anything else.

I think allies would work in fantasy just the same as 40k.

Just play Storm of Magic, you can use allies and it's fun.

Just had a few more thoughts on the system I described above. In grand Armies, you may take rares as rares, and may take Lords, but do not get the Grand Army reduction on restrictions on real rares. Also, If you take at least one allied Lord in the Grand Army, Allied Heroes count as heroes.