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After getting worKed by MSS. I wanted to try to come up with a good counter list. Basically a flyrant death star for precision shots against models with MSS, and then just a LOT of little dudes. Ripper swarms and hormies up front, followed by tervies, and then hopefully the 3 mc can help finish at the end. Zoanthropes just for their all around good v. Shooting psychic powers, and in case he brings vehicles.

So. Only 3 characters they can challnge, and all should stay out of CC for several rounds.

1750 Cron Smasher (Tyranids)
HQ - 495
Hive Tyrant (270)
twin-linked devourers with brainleech worms; twin-linked devourers with brainleech worms; toxin sacs; bonded exoskeleton; wings.

Tervigon (225)
Catalyst; Onslaught; crushing claws; toxin sacs.

Elites - 409
3 Zoanthropes (225)
• Mycetic Spore: venom cannon.

8 Ymgarl Genestealers (184)

Troops - 846
9 Ripper Swarms (126)
toxin sacs.

The Scuttling Swarm Tervigon (180)
Catalyst; scything talons.

14 Termagants (140)
devourer.

16 Termagants (80)

20 Hormagaunts (160)
toxin sacs.

20 Hormagaunts (160)
toxin sacs.

1,750 points

Looks good, although I wouldnt bother with the venom cannon on the spore. 1, because they can get ID'd. 2 because of the low BS 3, because they just aren't that good.

One thing in my experience is that a lone Flyrant goe's down pretty quickly if he's out in the open. If you can buff him great, I normally take 2 at 1750 although can be a bit of a squeeze.

Maybe consider giving him OA with the points left over from the Venom cannnon, you'll have to lose a termagant too. Him rerolling one's is nice touch and passing on that ability to anything in range, for instance the Zoans (roll to hit) and the devil gaunts.

You have plenty of troops and synapse coverage which is all good.
The only other thing that would concern me is lack of stuff to deal with mid to high AV. Ok, you have the tervigons but you need to get to stuff first. and you have the Flyrant plus the Zoans. Only problem with one unit of Zoans is if they get into combat they will likely be stuck there for the rest of the game. If your only taking one unit be sure to protect them with a shield of gants or hormagaunts to keep them out of combat and keep them shooting lance/blast.

One last thing, add some Gargoyles, they come in handy as a protection shield for the Flyrant and as a distraction, plus you can use them to cc anything and tie things up. giving them AG means glancing rear av 10, also TS isnt bad either.
With the Flyrant and in cc they would be Rerolling 1's to hit, 6's auto wound, not to mention the toxin sacs + rerolling 1's to wound..

I'm thinking maybe I should use the spore on the devourer gaunts, give the tyrant old adversary in place of the VC, and maybe swap out some thropes for my hive guard. Luckily necrons don't have skyfire. But he can definitely bring a monolith which can easily become trouble.
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Gargoyles eh? How many should I think about?

it seems to be built to battle a very specifc cron list versus what most cron players tend to bring. Most Necron armies I run into are loaded with AV 13 vehicles which are hard for Nids to take down, especially if they are protected by an overlord in a CCB. Yes you have some Zoan's but thats it for AV 13 at a distance. I'd recommend some Hive Guard.

Yeah, I have some hive guard I can throw in.

OA in there would be an awesome addition. I'd keep the spore for the zoans.

It would be nice to have a spore for the Devil gaunts but doesnt look essential in your list plus I'm not 100% on how you plan to run it or on what exactly the necron player will be using.

Depends how you plan to use your Flyrant, he'll need looking after if he's going charging up the filed, distraction units are useful like Ymgarls and Gargoyles.

I'd probably lose the Ripper swarms and use those points for Gargoyles instead.

Let us know how your game goes and what your final list looks like.

Hive tyrant is illegal no bonded exo and wings allowed. Also why on earth toxin sacs? He's winding most stuff on 2+ anyway and even against the t5 necrons 3+ and 4+ with a reroll is basically the same odds. Also don't see how he is a deathstar? Also most necrons are very flier heavy and you've 1 unit that can deal with them.

I don't see how this list is particularly anti-necrons or indeed anything...

A very simple fix aparently in a post i made in the tactics board came up for MSS.

Very Simply just use broodlords for gaze. If your the one attacking it will go off before MSS and you can wreck the highercost MSS bearers.

If you want to protect something big from challenges keep it grouped with a broodlord. Because you get to choose what answers a challenge you can just have him as a duelist.



EDIT: I should mention as well.... MSS is RANDOM to the unit that is assaulting, as in a model in the unit is randomly targeted. This is a major weakness so do what tyranid are supposed to... Swarm

EDIT: I should mention as well.... MSS is RANDOM to the unit that is assaulting, as in a model in the unit is randomly targeted. This is a major weakness so do what tyranid are supposed to... Swarm

erm... It is random to any unit in base to base contact with the Glorious CRON with MSS. (Can you tell I am a cron player?) So, placement is everything. Don't want to deal with MSS on one model, don't get them in base to base.

OK, let me try to answer a few misconceptions. Also, yes this is a very specific list. My buddy doesn't run much in the way of vehicles, but I feel confident i could deal with a monolith/a couple of 'cron transports with the list I'm about to post. My biggest problem in the last game was that I ran MC and Ch heavy (tyranid prime, flyrant, 2 tervis, 2 broodlords, a trygon prime and a bunch of termagants). His MSS is death to MC, so I was coming up with a real 'swarmy' army that can weaken him up with a little shooting, and then just bring in a ton of mobs (hence the ripper swarms for tarpitting lychguard etc.

FlingitNow wrote:Hive tyrant is illegal no bonded exo and wings allowed.

You are incorrect, Armored Shell is the upgrade you can't take with wings that gives you the 2+ save. Bonded Exo is his standard armor save of 3+ he gets regardless.

Also why on earth toxin sacs? He's winding most stuff on 2+ anyway and even against the t5 necrons 3+ and 4+ with a reroll is basically the same odds.

They are cheap, and whenever I can get a chance to reroll CC wounds I'll take it, especially with the changes to how poison attacks work.

Also don't see how he is a deathstar? Also most necrons are very flier heavy and you've 1 unit that can deal with them.

Necrons aren't very flyer heavy, unless they've gone out and bought a bunch of night scythes, and my buddy hasn't. Also, if you don't think a unit that can rain down 12 str 6 shots with a slightly higher chance to force a unit to run is a deathstar, then you and I have different definitions of death! Plus, I plan on keeping him swooping for at least the first 2 turns forcing them to take snapshots only. 'crons don't have any inherent skyfire, and with no night scythes they can't take him out that way. Oh, and with 12 twin-linked shots, how many 6s do you think i'll roll to hit for precision shots? At least a few, I might be able to pick off a MSS guy right away.

I don't see how this list is particularly anti-necrons or indeed anything...

It's not a tournament list or anything, it's designed to combat a troop heavy MSS army.

OldDynasty wrote:A very simple fix aparently in a post i made in the tactics board came up for MSS.

Very Simply just use broodlords for gaze. If your the one attacking it will go off before MSS and you can wreck the highercost MSS bearers.

If you want to protect something big from challenges keep it grouped with a broodlord. Because you get to choose what answers a challenge you can just have him as a duelist.

EDIT: I should mention as well.... MSS is RANDOM to the unit that is assaulting, as in a model in the unit is randomly targeted. This is a major weakness so do what tyranid are supposed to... Swarm

That is actually 100% untrue. Check out this thread I started on the matter. MSS really screws over broodlords, unless it's your turn and you do the charging. Otherwise, MSS goes off BEFORE hypnotic gaze no matter what, specifically because of the FAQ wording of Hypnotic Gaze.

With the list i'm trying to build, I want the MSS to mean nothing. Oh, you made a hormagant attack his squad? Great, the rest of my swarm will destroy your squad right after that.

Updating my list in QM, and I'll append it to this post or add it on after my next meeting.

I missed the change to poison it is a great upgrade for points now. Necrons have the mostaccess to fliers of any army.

And no i don't could a unit with 12 s6 shots a deathstar. I wouldn't consider 3 warwalkers a deathstar and they have 24 s6 shots...

Deathstar are units that do a lot of damage and are very difficult to kill. 4 t6 3+ is not that difficult to kill. The basic necron transport does on average 1.2 unsaved wounds to you a turn...

I don't see that mss are that much of a concern that you'd build a whole list around avoiding them.

MSS is done every turn before any blows (or for that matter anything) are resolved. Also, that list is about as Anti Cron as a standard Lasgun (no offence, just going off the lists I have).

I would say bring at least a Trygon and/or Hive Guard.

OK, so fine, our definition of raining death from above is different, but that's fine. It still has a fair amount of re-rollable s6 shots and is difficult to hit with only snap shots (albeit not impossible).

And no offense taken at all to suggestions for the list, that's why I posted here! The only caveat is that this isn't supposed to be a generic 'good' 'nid list. I usually use at least 3 HG, if not 2 squads, but they weren't very effective in the game. High str shots are nice against vehicles, but not quite as effective against infantry. However, I think 2 squads will be able to do a lot more damage, and at least soften up a squad before I send my melee units into it. I figured a Doom in a spore wasn't the best option because he would be in rapid fire range, and LD 10 on all necrons would make the brain sucking that much more difficult.

My main focus was on an army with as few MC and character as possible, to limit the usefulness of MSS with the new challenge system. Against a squad of pretty much any nid troops, MSS aren't really scary, it's only when they can challenge MCs, Broodlords and a Tyranid Prime, and have a high chance of removing them from that fight, and having them cause wounds to themselves.

That being said, here is my newly devised list (oh, and it should be stated that I plan on drawing powers for my 'HQ' tervy, and using catalyst on the troops tervi, hence why I bought the extra spell on the HQ one).

1750 Cron Smasher (Tyranids)
HQ - 520
Hive Tyrant (295)
twin-linked devourers with brainleech worms; twin-linked devourers with brainleech worms; Old Adversary; toxin sacs; bonded exoskeleton; wings.

Tervigon (225)
Catalyst; Onslaught; crushing claws; toxin sacs.

Elites - 505
3 Zoanthropes (205)
• Mycetic Spore

3 Hive Guard (150)

3 Hive Guard (150)

Troops - 724
9 Ripper Swarms (126)
toxin sacs.

The Scuttling Swarm Tervigon (180)
Catalyst; scything talons.

14 Termagants (140)
devourer.

14 Termagants (70)

13 Hormagaunts (104)
toxin sacs.

13 Hormagaunts (104)
toxin sacs.

1,749 points

I will say MSS can be a very good addition to combat vs anything. I will confess to having piled in everything, leaving my MSS bearer only able to be in B2B with who i wanted MSS'd (In most cases Abaddon)

Also, I know a nid player who uses Doom in a Spore. It wrecks face in my list due to lack of Psychic Defence. Although I have seen it ID'd out of 9 wounds from a crafty Lascannon.

IHateNids wrote:I will say MSS can be a very good addition to combat vs anything. I will confess to having piled in everything, leaving my MSS bearer only able to be in B2B with who i wanted MSS'd (In most cases Abaddon)

Also, I know a nid player who uses Doom in a Spore. It wrecks face in my list due to lack of Psychic Defence. Although I have seen it ID'd out of 9 wounds from a crafty Lascannon.

Yeah, and now with challenges, you can just challenge Abaddon. He's either forced into nothing but b2b with your MSS, or he can't fight!

Also, you can affectively challenge anything now with a previously crap-ish Necron Overlord. T-Lab, Warscythe & MSS. The MC/IC hits himself in the face due to MSS, then gets sucked into the T-Lab. Warscythe mops up his unit next turn

Yeah, in my game that made me want to come up with this list, I stupidly sent my flyrant into a squad with MSS. Tyrant wounded himself twice, and it was game over after that.

Granted, if I had been smart, since I was the one charging, I could have gotten into b2b with someone other than the MSS guy, and then forced him to blow his MSS on nothing. Granted, I wasn't smart, and my flyrant eradicated himself. :( And a couple of broodlords... and a tyranid prime...

It wasn't pretty.

buy some green stuff and make some hive guard

Ok, where to start.


1: A deathstar unit is generally a unit that can throw out a serious amount of shots and take just as much in punishment in return.
12 S6 shots is not a deathstar.
An older style of nid deathstar would be a prime joining a unit of fex's then given FNP from a tervigon.
Or swarmy with 3 lash guard and FNP from a tervigon.

2: Horms really are useless.
I would swap them out for gargoyles as HoW really does give them an edge now.
They also act as a flying screen to protect your flyrant.

3: As soon as your flyrant gets within 24" it will get grounded then shot to death unless it has a screening unit, or another unit that is of equal threat or more.

4: This is a rare thing for me to say, but since he does not use flyers, a mawloc may not be out of place in this case.
Being a troop heavy army you will have plenty of targets for him to pick, so make use of burrowing and re-emerging.

5: Equal threat or higher, a Trygon really does help out here.
You get plenty of attacks to chew through his unit, enough smash attacks to make sure any armour he does bring dies quickly.
And in general, divides up the shooting that would normally be blowing your flyrant away.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I missed the change to poison it is a great upgrade for points now. Necrons have the mostaccess to fliers of any army.

And no i don't could a unit with 12 s6 shots a deathstar. I wouldn't consider 3 warwalkers a deathstar and they have 24 s6 shots...

Deathstar are units that do a lot of damage and are very difficult to kill. 4 t6 3+ is not that difficult to kill. The basic necron transport does on average 1.2 unsaved wounds to you a turn...

I don't see that mss are that much of a concern that you'd build a whole list around avoiding them.

I didn't notice a change either. In fact, I am looking at the 6e entry now and am still missing it. How did poison change in a way that helps units with toxin sacs?

You can wound on better than a 4+ now. That is a huge difference to the big stuff and makes stealers even deadlier against T3 (or less).

Ripper swarms are a real no. The 10 man hormagaunt brood is adding nothing. If the Cron is foot heavy then devourer gants and Doom of Malantai in a pod.

AG and TS on the tervigons are points well spent.