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Is it just me or, in the codices and black librery book, that certain armies always beat other armies.
such as:
(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or add more examples)
orks usually beat necrons (as far as I'm aware)
Tau usually beat orks (usually!)
and have you ever read a book were SM didn't win?
has anybody else noticed this?

This is the last time i'm apologizing.

For all the people who have read my other threads I apologies for any spelling mistakes (past, present and future) and for any offence I have caused (unless you deserved it) and I'd not just whining this time!

I don't think to many people who buy a book about Space Marines want to read about Space Marines losing.

You think Eldar fans like that Gaunts Ghosts could kill billions of Eldar without reloading in a few hours?

This is how i see it, from what I have read so far.

Space marines - they beat everything, always, they just can't lose.
Chaos - always start of good, nice plan, decent invasion, substantial force
Orks - same but without the plan
Eldar - they get fethed badly but menage to piss you off before that
Tau - joke lol
Dark Eldar - even when they lose they win, because they are soooooo dark
Nids - same thing they may get beaten back but that/those planet/s is no longer useful is it now
Necron - always lose, they come off very powerful, skilled, cunning, the embodiment of death and they always lose some how
IG - incompetent fodder
IG in Ig specific novel - total beasts will fight to the last and win despite bad odds and heavy casualties
PFD - joke lol
Sisters - the badly portrayed punchbags of GW
Chiaphas Cain - indestructible plot armor + Jurgen
Civilians of all races and factions - DEAD (before the fighting even starts)

I might be missing something but I think that's all.

Grey Knights and Space Marines generally never lose, especially in Wardhammer/5th Edition. Grey Knights are more or less unstoppable and have no recorded defeats.

Tyranids and Chaos tend to lose just about everything and you'd be hard-pressed to find victories, though thanks to Daemonic incursion accounts in fluff Chaos squeezes out more wins then Tyranids.

Yori wrote:r
IG in Ig specific novel - total beasts will fight to the last and win despite bad odds and heavy casualties

Not always. See Dead Men Walking (IG lose to Necrons, focus is on IG) and that book about the Tallarn.

Harriticus wrote: Grey Knights are more or less unstoppable and have no recorded defeats.

Sarthis Majoris. The world fell due to Grey Knight failure.

Bobthehero wrote:

Yori wrote:r
IG in Ig specific novel - total beasts will fight to the last and win despite bad odds and heavy casualties

Not always. See Dead Men Walking (IG lose to Necrons, focus is on IG) and that book about the Tallarn.

Desert Raiders?

look at Storm of Iron Space Marines got there Helms handed to them.

Think it was, they got nom'd by Tyranids.

Agree...and demon Primarch's and their fails?C'mon-they are 5x tougher,but can't do a thing

The 40k food chain:

Everything beats Guard (except in Guard novels).

Space Marines beat everything.

Necrons always win battles that are only briefly mentioned, and usually lose in major battles with whole books dedicated to them.

Yori wrote:
Tau - joke lol

but they got very advanced techonogy. they can kill you faster that you say "Emperor"

Pada wrote:

Yori wrote:
Tau - joke lol

but they got very advanced techonogy. they can kill you faster that you say "Emperor"

So why haven't they? Only book that actually haves them win is Fire Warrior and that one was C.S Goto style of writing. No one actually takes it to be cannon. (The "Fire Warrior" game was pretty bad too.)
In the rest of the BL published works they lose, in the UM novels, in the Cain novels, in Rogue Trader novels (especially the last one) they just get decimated and even i felt sorry for them (only not really), in Last Chancers they lose again.

If you like the tau wait for a new book, I heard that there is one you can pre-order on Amazon called "Fire Caste" and is coming 2013. If you are lucky it may have tau win and not be written by someone who shouldn't write books about 40k.

And their tech ONLY LOOKS advanced the IoM haves gak they cannot comprehend, they are suppose to LOOK sleek and shiny and "advanced" in contrast with the rest of 40k factions, they are technologically outclassed by a lot of them however (Necron, Eldar, DEldar, IoM)

Yori wrote:
Necron - always lose, they come off very powerful, skilled, cunning, the embodiment of death and they always lose some how

I understand how it comes out this way, but in Fall of Damnos, the Ultramarines "beat the necrons" but at the end, they realise that that is just a small portion of the planet that has been temporarily held back, and there is still Necrons infesting the planet .
Imperial Guard got smashed in this and Sicarius almost killed, it was only due to >SPOILER ALERT< Agrippen or some other Dreadnought smashing the Necron Overlord while he was still self repairing. If you look at the Necron Codex, although biased reports, Necrons have tonnes of victories.

Yori wrote:

Pada wrote:

Yori wrote:
Tau - joke lol

but they got very advanced techonogy. they can kill you faster that you say "Emperor"

So why haven't they? Only book that actually haves them win is Fire Warrior and that one was C.S Goto style of writing. No one actually takes it to be cannon. (The "Fire Warrior" game was pretty bad too.)
In the rest of the BL published works they lose, in the UM novels, in the Cain novels, in Rogue Trader novels (especially the last one) they just get decimated and even i felt sorry for them (only not really), in Last Chancers they lose again.

If you like the tau wait for a new book, I heard that there is one you can pre-order on Amazon called "Fire Caste" and is coming 2013. If you are lucky it may have tau win and not be written by someone who shouldn't write books about 40k.

And their tech ONLY LOOKS advanced the IoM haves gak they cannot comprehend, they are suppose to LOOK sleek and shiny and "advanced" in contrast with the rest of 40k factions, they are technologically outclassed by a lot of them however (Necron, Eldar, DEldar, IoM)

fist of all i wasnt meanig nothing afout the book or the game.
about other BL books : in SM novels CSM always loose. that makes them losers? Heroes always win.
Also their tech IS advanced.necrons or SM cant hold a hive fleet alone if they send a arny of size of tau. but Tau stoped a whole hive fleet alone.Only race that got more advanced is Eldar

Pada wrote:

Yori wrote:

Pada wrote:

Yori wrote:
Tau - joke lol

but they got very advanced techonogy. they can kill you faster that you say "Emperor"

So why haven't they? Only book that actually haves them win is Fire Warrior and that one was C.S Goto style of writing. No one actually takes it to be cannon. (The "Fire Warrior" game was pretty bad too.)
In the rest of the BL published works they lose, in the UM novels, in the Cain novels, in Rogue Trader novels (especially the last one) they just get decimated and even i felt sorry for them (only not really), in Last Chancers they lose again.

If you like the tau wait for a new book, I heard that there is one you can pre-order on Amazon called "Fire Caste" and is coming 2013. If you are lucky it may have tau win and not be written by someone who shouldn't write books about 40k.

And their tech ONLY LOOKS advanced the IoM haves gak they cannot comprehend, they are suppose to LOOK sleek and shiny and "advanced" in contrast with the rest of 40k factions, they are technologically outclassed by a lot of them however (Necron, Eldar, DEldar, IoM)

fist of all i wasnt meanig nothing afout the book or the game.
about other BL books : in SM novels CSM always loose. that makes them losers? Heroes always win.
Also their tech IS advanced.necrons or SM cant hold a hive fleet alone if they send a arny of size of tau. but Tau stoped a whole hive fleet alone.Only race that got more advanced is Eldar

Saying that tho, the Damacleas Gulf Crusade. Imperium was Smashing the Tau untill Nids showed up and even then the Super Space Smurfs stoped them.
On the outher hand no one loses always if you dig around there has to be a BL book somewhere that makes the Tau to be perdy good.
and Dark Eldar and Eldar seem right on the same LVL. Just one has more poison and spiny bitz

Damacleas Crusade couldnt be stoped by any enemy of the IoM.And they only took some planets , we dont know how far could go.Tau could get ready better adn defeat crusade, they change tactics easier that IoM

Yup we dont know.

Pada wrote:Damacleas Crusade couldnt be stoped by any enemy of the IoM.And they only took some planets , we dont know how far could go.Tau could get ready better adn defeat crusade, they change tactics easier that IoM

They may be more adeptable, but IoM forces are more resilient, and they are better in cc. Also, a bolter is more neat and strong then you think. A normal, standard isue bolter will blow you to pieces in a second.

Sure, the Imperium "wins" in "Helsreach", but there's only two Space Marines out of a hundred left alive by the end.

Brilliant 40k-book BTW, all hail Aaron Dembski-Bowden.

thenoobbomb wrote:

Pada wrote:Damacleas Crusade couldnt be stoped by any enemy of the IoM.And they only took some planets , we dont know how far could go.Tau could get ready better adn defeat crusade, they change tactics easier that IoM

They may be more adeptable, but IoM forces are more resilient, and they are better in cc. Also, a bolter is more neat and strong then you think. A normal, standard isue bolter will blow you to pieces in a second.

and then kroot comes, to help in cc
Tau maybe did a trap, for ex. destroy a planet whith all SM upon it it would be for the Greater Good

Well the dark apostle book line goes basically like this book one: CSM give IG the beat down. Book 2: CSM give IG and DE the beatdown, and run from a tyranid hive fleet ( well escape with dignity) book 3: CSM attack space marinesand IG and begin to give them a beatdown. Then necrons come, slay a whole space marine chapter (again) then proceed to explode a Titan legion and a bazillion csm from this arsehole dark apostles warhost. Then the necrons reclaim the artifact that was rightfully theirs, and then bad gak which I can't remember happens. Then csm come and in a desperate assault with high losses prevent more gak for happening to them and make their Aescape. Marduk becomes super powerful badasseryness. So basically Necrons > CSM > SM & IG. Also in the necron codex it says that the necrons will destroy all their enemies in the end. But the end will be a long way off. Also I think that the reason it seems that SM beat everyone is that there are a whole bunch of black library books about SM, depicting space marine chapters completing their objectives, usually there 'victories' are actually however lesser forms of defeat. Take the fall of damnos for example. The space marines succeed to exacuate a whole bunch of people and stall the take over of the Crons. However this is interpreted as a victory for the space marines when in actual fact the necrons take over the planet, which for the residents of the planet it a total failure, as their planet is now solely occupied by necrons, with no hope of reclaiming it, and from that planet countless more planets will be taken. So in actual fact that is a huge tactical failure. I think people mistake the biased writing and the heroics of the space marines to mean that they win, however it's more that they only write books about space marine victories and heroic last stands that for some jammy reason the smurfs survive.

The fact of he matter is that it's going to be nids, crons or chaos that end up with the galaxy, in the long run, and my bets are with the crons. However as this is a fictitious galaxy the chances are we will forever be bogged down in the time of the imperium and we will never get to see that, and if we do get to see the total control of the galaxy by one race, all the other races will get their own sattalite galaxy from which to fight over control of the main galaxy, like a game of galactic capture the flag. GW make too much money to end the warhammer 40k universe, or whatever it will evolve into, be that warhammer 50k or warhammer 60k or warhammer galaxies or some other similarly named place with even more forces assaulting the never ending imperium from even more sides (if an empire has sides)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh hell that's quite a text wall

I read a Novel when a Company of Marines get there handed to them by Tyranids

Never try and compare the books and the fluff with the table top game... they aren't the same thing.

The game makes pretenses toward 'balance', but the goal isn't balance folks... it's sales.

Try not to get too upset when a MINIATURES company out to sell MINIATURES has sales in mind and not your idea of what's fair.

The reason Marines play such a dominant role in the 40k universe is because the Marines have always been the focal point since day one. This is backed up by the fact that more people buy Space Marines than any other faction and the books focusing on the Space Marines have even been on the New York Best Sellers list. Interest in 40k goes far beyond the table top nowadays.

I personally know a few people that had never heard of the game system until the last pages of a book they were reading... I'm beginning to think we, who play the game, are in the minority now.

40k is all about Humanity, and humanities penultimate warriors despite what you may think about your pet faction. I don't think this will ever change.

Nemesor wrote:The fact of he matter is that it's going to be nids, crons or chaos that end up with the galaxy, in the long run,

Hang on a miniute, what about Orks, you kill one and it releases spores which grow into more Orks, you kill them and they release more spores until eventualy you've got a whole army of Orks trying to kill you. If any one's going to end up with the galaxy its going to be the Orks (or nids, or crons).
But I agree that GW is making too much money from 40k to end it.

Pada wrote:Damacleas Crusade couldnt be stoped by any enemy of the IoM.And they only took some planets , we dont know how far could go.Tau could get ready better adn defeat crusade, they change tactics easier that IoM

The crusade was a half hearted attempt that became a stalemate. The IoM could have pulled off a win if they allocated more resources and if the nids hadn't shown up. But that's a another story for another day and/or thread.

Space Marines beat face always unless its written by Graham McNeill. His books about the Ultramarines are actually quite good, I'd recommend them to anyone who plays 40k. He actually gives character to the Marines.
Imperial Guard are there to die horribly unless their the star of the novel.
Orks for the most part lose since its Imperial-centric.
Eldar, from what I've read are more side characters. They get mentioned, but are never really the star.
Dark Eldar, pretty much same as eldar.
Nids, Their only purpose is to lose it seems.
Tau, I've only read one book with tau in it and they lost.
Chaos: Loses in every book I've read.
Necrons: Beat Face. Especially oldcrons.

DA SPEED FREEK wrote:

Nemesor wrote:The fact of he matter is that it's going to be nids, crons or chaos that end up with the galaxy, in the long run,

Hang on a miniute, what about Orks, you kill one and it releases spores which grow into more Orks, you kill them and they release more spores until eventualy you've got a whole army of Orks trying to kill you. If any one's going to end up with the galaxy its going to be the Orks (or nids, or crons).
But I agree that GW is making too much money from 40k to end it.

You can scorch the earth to kill the spores, or a fling a few HE shells.
Or someone could develop a poison, IIRC someome mention that it would work on all Orks due to their spore things.

Bobthehero wrote:

DA SPEED FREEK wrote:

Nemesor wrote:The fact of he matter is that it's going to be nids, crons or chaos that end up with the galaxy, in the long run,

Hang on a miniute, what about Orks, you kill one and it releases spores which grow into more Orks, you kill them and they release more spores until eventualy you've got a whole army of Orks trying to kill you. If any one's going to end up with the galaxy its going to be the Orks (or nids, or crons).
But I agree that GW is making too much money from 40k to end it.

You can scorch the earth to kill the spores, or a fling a few HE shells.
Or someone could develop a poison, IIRC someome mention that it would work on all Orks due to their spore things.

You can burn the spores but if the IoM burned every planet with a Ork infestation then they'd have a lot less planets plus I'm guessing the Iom hasen't got the time to Inject every last Ork with a poison, a diseas might work but you'd have to spread it across the entire galaxy and at best all it would do is weaken their numbers, but the IoM have alot more things to wory about than just Orks.

Picture an anti Ork virus bomb, pretty much.

And they just have to burn around the corpse, the soil will be messed up either way when the Ork pops up, so its not like there's a lot to lose.

I just finished reading the UM book "Courage and Honour" where the Tau were actually winning.



Also, in the compilation "Let the Galaxy Burn" there are a few stories where Space Marines lose (to Dark Eldar and Tyranids).

DeffDred wrote:I don't think to many people who buy a book about Space Marines want to read about Space Marines losing.

You think Eldar fans like that Gaunts Ghosts could kill billions of Eldar without reloading in a few hours?

In IA8, the Elysians lost their entire regiment to Orks, I don't think the players who bought their expensive models would be happy that their awesome looking army sucks in the fluff