Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 20:49:07
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Democrats are moving, for the first time, to include support for same-sex marriage in the official party platform at their national convention.
The decision comes after President Obama became the first sitting U.S. president to voice support for gay marriage, and as party officials try to build the anticipation ahead of the convention set for early September in Charlotte, N.C.
Sources told Fox News that the Democrats' platform drafting committee voted unanimously to include the language backing same-sex marriage at a meeting in Minneapolis over the weekend. The next step would be for the full platform committee to take it up in Detroit next month. From there, the plank would go to convention delegates in Charlotte.
The drafting committee decision leaked out shortly after officials revealed that former President Bill Clinton will deliver the nominating speech on Wednesday night of the convention. Obama and Biden are to speak on Thursday, the convention's final night.
Several prominent Democrats began pushing earlier this year for support of same-sex marriage to be included in the convention platform, which lists principles the party supports. The effort got a boost in May when Obama voiced his personal support for same-sex unions.
New Hampshire Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen hailed the decision in a statement Monday.
"Equality and freedom are at the core of who we are as Americans, and that means freedom for all of us, not just some of us. Our party has long been a leader on issues of justice and this reaffirms to the country that we are working on behalf of all our families, gay and straight," she said.
The president's support for same-sex marriage, though, continues to stir controversy. As reports first surfaced of the drafting committee's decision, an organization of black pastors announced Monday that they'll be launching a national campaign starting Tuesday in opposition to Obama's endorsement.
"President Obama has not given us the courtesy of a reply to discuss his support of same-sex marriage, and is taking the black vote for granted," Rev. William Owens, president of the Coalition of African American Pastors, said in a statement. He said the campaign will urge black pastors and other black voters to "withdraw their support" of the president.
"We will see that the black community is informed that the president is taking them for granted while pandering to the gay community," he said.
It's unclear how detailed the language is on the same-sex marriage plank, and whether it calls for any legislative efforts like the repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act -- which defines marriages on the federal level as between a man and a woman.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/30/dems-move-to-include-gay-marriage-support-in-official-party-platform/#ixzz228o8QnwA
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 21:11:42
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
|
Sources told Fox News that the Democrats' platform drafting committee voted unanimously to include the language backing same-sex marriage at a meeting in Minneapolis over the weekend. The next step would be for the full platform committee to take it up in Detroit next month. From there, the plank would go to convention delegates in Charlotte.
Well that went from "well that's brave of them" to "well that probably didn't happen because fox news lies about gak like this every day" awful quick.
|
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 21:16:00
Subject: Re:Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
One can only hope.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 21:20:21
Subject: Re:Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
(CNN) - Democrats meeting in Minneapolis this weekend approved draft language supportive of same-sex marriage as a plank in their party's platform, two Democratic sources confirmed Monday.
The full Democratic platform committee will now consider the same-sex marriage endorsement at a meeting in Detroit, scheduled to take place in two weeks. It will then be voted on by convention delegates in Charlotte. If approved, it would mark the first time support for same-sex marriage is included in the Democrats' platform.
– Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker
The specific language of the same-sex marriage endorsement was not immediately available.
In May, President Barack Obama publicly backed same-sex marriage for the first time in an interview with ABC News. Obama said soon after at a campaign fund-raising event that he believes marriage equality "strengthens families."
"I want everyone treated fairly in this country," Obama said. "We have never gone wrong when we've extended rights and responsibilities to everybody," he said, drawing big applause. "That doesn't weaken families, that strengthens families."
News of the same-sex marriage plank at the Democratic Convention was first reported by the Washington Blade.
Marc Solomon, the national campaign director of the pro-same-sex marriage group Freedom to Marry, said in a statement he was "grateful" for the vote of the drafting committee to include the marriage language.
"As I testified to the Committee on Friday, the Democratic Party has a noble history of fighting for the human and civil rights of all Americans," Solomon wrote. "We are proud that the Committee is including language that will ensure the Party is leading the way forward in supporting marriage for loving and committed same-sex couples and their families."
– Check out the CNN Electoral Map and Calculator and game out your own strategy for November.
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 21:30:21
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
|
Thank you for posting a non biased and non yellow news source.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 21:30:35
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 21:32:07
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
|
Always happy to hear about progression in the rights of American citizens. I understand people are entitled to their opinion, but it still blows me away the amount of prejudice towards the gay community. People act like it's the end of the World if gay marriage is allowed and, as a thinking and reasoning human being as well as a married man, I fail to see how this could even remotely be the case.
|
actiondan wrote:According to popular belief I cannot use drop pods because only the Imperium can organize itself enough to put 10 men in a container and fire it at a planet. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 21:47:20
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
|
Having equal rights for all, I remember that being something of a basis of america... too bad the chumps at fox news are too busy with their grand scheme to dick over the country or the USA would actually be on it's way to a working, efficient and less corrupt place.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 21:56:23
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
|
juraigamer wrote:Having equal rights for all, I remember that being something of a basis of america... too bad the chumps at fox news are too busy with their grand scheme to dick over the country or the USA would actually be on it's way to a working, efficient and less corrupt place.
Equal rights for all has never been the basis of america. Its always been talked about but in a country founded on slavery, displaced natives, women as second class citizens, and christian religious homogeneity it has never really worked that way.
|
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:02:26
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
|
ShumaGorath wrote:
Equal rights for all has never been the basis of america. Its always been talked about but in a country founded on slavery, displaced natives, women as second class citizens, and christian religious homogeneity it has never really worked that way.
On the contrary I would say the Ideal of Equality is what America is built upon, he never said that it was the reality that America is. We, just as every other country out there, are rife with Prejudice and shameful periods in our history.
|
actiondan wrote:According to popular belief I cannot use drop pods because only the Imperium can organize itself enough to put 10 men in a container and fire it at a planet. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:03:29
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Consigned to the Grim Darkness
|
Good on them.
|
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:06:03
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
|
Brother Heinrich wrote:as a thinking and reasoning human being
This is what serperates you from the homophobes...
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:08:40
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
|
Brother Heinrich wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:
Equal rights for all has never been the basis of america. Its always been talked about but in a country founded on slavery, displaced natives, women as second class citizens, and christian religious homogeneity it has never really worked that way.
On the contrary I would say the Ideal of Equality is what America is built upon, he never said that it was the reality that America is. We, just as every other country out there, are rife with Prejudice and shameful periods in our history.
That's like saying equality was the ideal of the soviet union and communist china. It's the ideal of most places, realities like having half your population be second class citizens for the majority of your nations history taints ideals and make them look kinda silly.
|
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:13:13
Subject: Re:Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Black churches conflicted on Obama's gay marriage decision
The pulpits of the nation's black churches took measure Sunday of President Obama's decision to support gay marriage, and the result was conflicted.
Some churches were silent on the issue. At others, pastors spoke against the president's decision Wednesday — but kindly of the man himself. A few blasted the president and his decision. A minority spoke in favor of the decision and expressed understanding of the president's change of heart.
Bishop Timothy Clarke, head of the First Church of God, a large African-American church with a television ministry in Columbus, Ohio, was perhaps most typical. He felt compelled to address the president's comments at a Wednesday evening service and again Sunday morning. He was responding to an outpouring of calls, e-mails and text messages from members of his congregation after the president's remarks.
PHOTOS: Black pastors weigh gay marriage
What did he hear from churchgoers? "No church or group is monolithic. Some were powerfully agitated and disappointed. Others were curious — why now? to what end? Others were hurt. And others, to be honest, told me it's not an issue and they don't have a problem with it."
What did the bishop tell his congregation? He opposes gay marriage. It is not just a social issue, he said, but a religious one for those who follow the Bible. "The spiritual issue is ground in the word of God."
That said, "I believe the statement the president made and his decision was made in good faith. I am sure because the president is a good man. I know his decision was made after much thought and consideration and, I'm sure, even prayer."
Clarke asked his church "to pray for the president and pray this will not become a political football with uncivil language and heated rhetoric. We can disagree on this, as we do on many things, and still love each other."
The conflicted sentiments within African-American churches reflect a broader struggle in the American public. A USA TODAY Poll showed that slightly more than half of Americans agreed with the president's decision. A scientifically valid breakdown of African Americans was not available, but past polls have shown blacks generally opposed to gay marriage.
African Americans are a key voting bloc for the president this November. In 2008, exit polls showed Obama lost to John McCain among white voters but won more than 95% of the African-American vote.
Dwight McKissic, senior pastor at the Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, said last week he would not speak on gay marriage Sunday because it was Mother's Day and his wife would lead the church.
However, he planned to focus directly on the topic in next week's sermon. "President Obama has betrayed the Bible and the black church with his endorsement of same-sex marriage," McKissic said.
On the opposite side of the issue, pastor Enoch Fuzz of Corinthian Missionary Baptist Church of Nashville, said last week that he understood why many pastors opposed gay marriage, but he planned to discuss Sunday why he supports gay marriage. "I know many in the black community have trouble accepting gay marriage," he said. "But all of us have gay friends or family, and we love them."
Fuzz said he thinks the president's comments won't hurt him politically, although some African-American Christians may be upset with him. "There's really no better option. People are not going to go out and vote for Mitt Romney."
In Columbus, Mayor Michael Coleman is confident black churches and voters will stick with the president, even if they disagree over gay marriage. The four-term African-American mayor made the same conversion himself on the issue of gay marriage — for the same reasons — this year.
"I had to evolve on the issue and think it through, too, and I came to the conclusion it was the right thing," said Coleman, a Democrat who supports Obama. "When it is the right thing to do, politics is irrelevant."
Coleman discussed his change with the leader of Columbus' largest black church. "He disagrees with me rather strongly," Coleman says. Will it endanger his political support? "No. We're very close."
Obama won't be abandoned by black churches either, not in the key swing state of Ohio, Coleman said. "Many in the pastoral community appreciate his courage in making the decision, even if they disagree," Coleman says.
In North Carolina, where black churches helped pass a constitutional amendment last week banning gay marriage, Ron Gates, president of the Interdenominational Ministerial Alliance of Asheville/Buncombe County, decided not to focus on gay marriage in his Sunday sermon but instead make it "a footnote," so his continued support for the amendment was clear.
"I support my president and love my president, but I think he is wrong," said Keith Ogden, pastor of the predominantly black Hill Street Baptist Church in Asheville. "He is not God, and he doesn't speak for all black folk because he is African American."
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:13:37
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
|
Welcome to months ago.
|
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:16:48
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Consigned to the Grim Darkness
|
Ah yes, the "word of god", the same word that has been edited, re-edited, edited from the re-edit of the edited re-edited edit of the re-edit of the edited edit from the original edit after it was re-edited a few times over from the original, with edits used for political gain by those who were making them.
|
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:20:18
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
|
Melissia wrote:Ah yes, the "word of god", the same word that has been edited, re-edited, edited from the re-edit of the edited re-edited edit of the re-edit of the edited edit from the original edit after it was re-edited a few times over from the original, with edits used for political gain by those who were making them.
The bible is pretty explicit in its anti gay stance and they have unedited books that massively predate popular literacy or the printing press.
|
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:22:09
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Consigned to the Grim Darkness
|
ShumaGorath wrote:The bible is pretty explicit in its anti gay stance
That is entirely up to which version of the bible you read; certainly there's very little evidence of an anti-gay stance in the original text. As for "unedited" versions, just because it was made before the printing press doesn't mean it isn't edited from the original language. A lot of the edits and changes from the original texts are faultless anyway because the meanings of words have been lost or changed over time. Even the KJV is somtimes outright unreadable to modern people, with words that no one ever uses any more that few people know the meaning of.
|
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/07/30 22:24:14
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:23:51
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
|
Melissia wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:The bible is pretty explicit in its anti gay stance
That is entirely up to which version fo the bible you read. As for unedited versions, just because it was made before the printing press doesn't mean it isn't edited from the original language. A lot of the edits are faultless anyway because the meanings of words have been lost or changed over time. No, not really. That's just the unlearned liberal anti religious stance on the veracity and continuity of biblical teachings. They're sketchy in the first few hundred years after Jesus' death but the contents of the books have been verified back to near their inception hundreds of times. Their teachings have certainly been recorded in more places than just the books. Common biblical law isn't hard to dig up and research for archaeologists, religious scholars liked to write and record things and they based laws off of the books. There are ways of authenticating documents and social trends beyond just looking at old pieces of paper.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/30 22:25:43
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:27:32
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Consigned to the Grim Darkness
|
ShumaGorath wrote:No, not really. That's just the unlearned liberal anti religious stance
Stop. No. I'm not in the mood to give this sort of jackassery a legitimate response.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/30 22:28:34
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:29:18
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
|
Melissia wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:No, not really. That's just the unlearned liberal anti religious stance
Stop. No. I'm not in the mood to give this sort of jackassery a legitimate response. I wouldn't have expected a legitimate response in the first place whether that was true or not. You have a tendency to recite unresearched mantras from your core political philosophies and generally ignore the posts you're responding to.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 22:30:20
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:32:59
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
|
ShumaGorath wrote:Melissia wrote:Ah yes, the "word of god", the same word that has been edited, re-edited, edited from the re-edit of the edited re-edited edit of the re-edit of the edited edit from the original edit after it was re-edited a few times over from the original, with edits used for political gain by those who were making them.
The bible is pretty explicit in its anti gay stance and they have unedited books that massively predate popular literacy or the printing press.
The bible is pretty explicit in regards to a lot of things.
The problem is "believers" like to pick and choose what to cite as it suits their own particular hangups/prejudices/goals/agendas/.
Convenient...
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 22:33:53
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:34:55
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
|
CT GAMER wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:Melissia wrote:Ah yes, the "word of god", the same word that has been edited, re-edited, edited from the re-edit of the edited re-edited edit of the re-edit of the edited edit from the original edit after it was re-edited a few times over from the original, with edits used for political gain by those who were making them.
The bible is pretty explicit in its anti gay stance and they have unedited books that massively predate popular literacy or the printing press.
The bible is pretty explicit in regards to a lot of things.
The problem is "believers" like to pick and choose what to cite as it suits their own particular hangups/prejudices/goals/agendas/.
Convenient...
I totally agree.
|
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:35:04
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
|
While the bible doesn't make nearly as big a deal of homosexuality as some people think, it's pretty well documented, that at best, the writers of the various books weren't big fans.
That said, without knowing a lot more than we do about the context of the times, it's difficult to parse every single word. It's hard to be specific about calling an act a sin when you only write in euphamism.
Even in early modern times, sodomy laws would only allude to "unnatural acts."
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:42:34
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
|
ShumaGorath wrote:Brother Heinrich wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:
Equal rights for all has never been the basis of america. Its always been talked about but in a country founded on slavery, displaced natives, women as second class citizens, and christian religious homogeneity it has never really worked that way.
On the contrary I would say the Ideal of Equality is what America is built upon, he never said that it was the reality that America is. We, just as every other country out there, are rife with Prejudice and shameful periods in our history.
That's like saying equality was the ideal of the soviet union and communist china. It's the ideal of most places, realities like having half your population be second class citizens for the majority of your nations history taints ideals and make them look kinda silly.
I feel like we're both arguing the same side of the coin here. However I disagree with your statement about the ideals of equality being tainted and 'silly', because of past events in American history. that is akin to saying that the ideals of Christianity are 'tainted' and 'silly' because of the Crusades and the Inquisition. Just because and organization, be it government or religion, has made mistakes in the past, does not mean that it is beyond redeeming itself and contributing positively to the human race.
|
actiondan wrote:According to popular belief I cannot use drop pods because only the Imperium can organize itself enough to put 10 men in a container and fire it at a planet. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:47:51
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Melissia wrote:Ah yes, the "word of god", the same word that has been edited, re-edited, edited from the re-edit of the edited re-edited edit of the re-edit of the edited edit from the original edit after it was re-edited a few times over from the original, with edits used for political gain by those who were making them.
As opposed to literalist world view which is consistently wrong, of course. Automatically Appended Next Post: Polonius wrote:While the bible doesn't make nearly as big a deal of homosexuality as some people think, it's pretty well documented, that at best, the writers of the various books weren't big fans.
Not in the new testament. It's not mentioned once.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 22:48:52
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:49:30
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Consigned to the Grim Darkness
|
Testify wrote:As opposed to literalist world view which is consistently wrong, of course.
Which liberalist world view? Because I get the idea that you are attacking a straw-man argument instead. Then again, maybe you really are against liberty, capitalism, constitutionalism, human rights, and equality, and you would love to be made a slave in a communistic state instead, to be abused and tortured by your master race overlords for the rest of your very short and miserable life? Certainly, if you despise liberalism so much, you'd probably like it better in China than in the US, which was founded on liberalism.
|
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/07/30 22:53:10
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:51:40
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
|
Brother Heinrich wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:Brother Heinrich wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:
Equal rights for all has never been the basis of america. Its always been talked about but in a country founded on slavery, displaced natives, women as second class citizens, and christian religious homogeneity it has never really worked that way.
On the contrary I would say the Ideal of Equality is what America is built upon, he never said that it was the reality that America is. We, just as every other country out there, are rife with Prejudice and shameful periods in our history.
That's like saying equality was the ideal of the soviet union and communist china. It's the ideal of most places, realities like having half your population be second class citizens for the majority of your nations history taints ideals and make them look kinda silly.
I feel like we're both arguing the same side of the coin here. However I disagree with your statement about the ideals of equality being tainted and 'silly', because of past events in American history. that is akin to saying that the ideals of Christianity are 'tainted' and 'silly' because of the Crusades and the Inquisition. Just because and organization, be it government or religion, has made mistakes in the past, does not mean that it is beyond redeeming itself and contributing positively to the human race.
I think the idea of equality from the standpoint of an inherent national ideology is a bit silly. America has never been about equality. Americans have, several times throughout history, fought or marched for increased personal equality that saw this country for a time become arguably the most liberally free country on earth. We're certainly not that right now and nothing about the foundation of this country has really pushed an equality agenda. The constitution and bill of rights are certainly nice sentiments but them come from a time of massive slave trade and repression of gays foreigners and women, for hundreds of years they served to maintain a system built on unequal equality. Equality in America has always been a bizzare political football, no dominant political force has ever pushed strongly for actual equality. They've just been influenced by newly voiced masses (as is happening now).
|
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:57:15
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Powerful Pegasus Knight
|
Melissia wrote:Testify wrote:As opposed to literalist world view which is consistently wrong, of course.
Which liberalist world view?
Because I get the idea that you are attacking a straw-man argument instead.
Then again, maybe you really are against liberty, capitalism, constitutionalism, human rights, and equality, and you would love to be made a slave in a communistic state instead, to be abused and tortured by your master race overlords for the rest of your very short and miserable life? Certainly, if you despise liberalism so much, you'd probably like it better in China than in the US, which was founded on liberalism.
He's talking about Biblical literalism not liberty.
Testify wrote:Polonius wrote:While the bible doesn't make nearly as big a deal of homosexuality as some people think, it's pretty well documented, that at best, the writers of the various books weren't big fans.
Not in the new testament. It's not mentioned once.
If there ever was any I don't think it ever would have gotten ground in hedonistic roman culture.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 22:58:09
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Consigned to the Grim Darkness
|
Derp. I misread, apologies.
|
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/30 23:04:08
Subject: Dems move to include gay marriage support in official party platform
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Glorioski wrote:
If there ever was any I don't think it ever would have gotten ground in hedonistic roman culture.
Clearly our own culture isn't hedonistic enough. Genitals are a lot less important after 5 bottles of wine
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 23:04:18
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics. |
|
 |
 |
|