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I was listening to a podcast today and they were reviewing 6th Ed. rules and the point came up that Emplaced Weapons (p96) and Gun Emplacements (p105) were two completely different thing.

I read it's they we're one and the same but I wanted to pitch it up here.

My pinch here is that the upgrades listed for ADL and Bastion are Gun Emplacements and the FoR has Emplaced versions of the exact same weapon systems.

They are a bit different. Gun emplacements are individual models with their own T and W but have to be fired manually by a guy in contact. Emplaced weapons are part of a larger building and can be fired on auto or by a model in the building, depending on what BS you want to use.

Biggest diffrence is that Nids can manually fire Gun Emplacements, but not Emplaced Weapons.

Also Gun Emplacements do not have a autofire option.

Gloomfang wrote:Biggest diffrence is that Nids can manually fire Gun Emplacements, but not Emplaced Weapons.

Also Gun Emplacements do not have a autofire option.

It seems kind of comical if you picture it, a tryanid manning a quad cannon as something arrives for reserves....or a daemon.

Cyvash wrote:

Gloomfang wrote:Biggest diffrence is that Nids can manually fire Gun Emplacements, but not Emplaced Weapons.

Also Gun Emplacements do not have a autofire option.

It seems kind of comical if you picture it, a tryanid manning a quad cannon as something arrives for reserves....or a daemon.

A lot of Nid players are scratch building quadguns out of canifix back armor plates and deathspitters. ILC are being built from spare rupture cannons.

But yes the thought of a Hormagaunt or venomethrope manning a gun is funny. Venomthropes make awesome gunners.

So to take this point further.

If you have a quad gun on top of a bastion, can the quad be targeted?

Also, can I fire the quad gun from the safety of inside the bastion?

Because if a building is like a vehicle, individual weapons can't be targeted for tanks.

bogalubov wrote:So to take this point further.

If you have a quad gun on top of a bastion, can the quad be targeted?

Also, can I fire the quad gun from the safety of inside the bastion?

Because if a building is like a vehicle, individual weapons can't be targeted for tanks.

1) Yes it can be targeted just like any other unit on top of a bastion.
2) No you can not as you have to be in BtB.

This is the big diffrence between an emplaced weapon and a gun emplacement. You can not target the Fragstrom or TL ILC on a Fortress becasue they act like the weapons on a vehicle. Gun Emplacements act like artillary that any one can fire.

bogalubov wrote:So to take this point further.

If you have a quad gun on top of a bastion, can the quad be targeted?

The Quad Gun can be targeted, it is a Gun emplacement. P.105 has more information

bogalubov wrote:Also, can I fire the quad gun from the safety of inside the bastion?

No, Gun emplacements P.105 tells you what you need to know.

DeathReaper wrote:

bogalubov wrote:So to take this point further.

If you have a quad gun on top of a bastion, can the quad be targeted?

The Quad Gun can not be targeted, as it has no profile, as it is an Emplaced weapon. P.96 has more information

You can destroy them by targeting the Building and getting the correct result on the vehicle damage chart.

bogalubov wrote:Also, can I fire the quad gun from the safety of inside the bastion?

Yes, if the building is occupied you can fire one of the Emplaced weapons. P.96 tells you what you need to know.

Gloomfang wrote:1) Yes it can be targeted just like any other unit on top of a bastion.
2) No you can not as you have to be in BtB.

Neither of Gloomfang's answers are correct.

The quad gun is a Gun Emplacement, not an Emplaced weapon. Just because you choose to put it on top of a bastion does not change the fact that it is an Gun Emplacement. It is still has a profile and is a T7 W2 model that can be targeted sperately and must be manualy fired by a unit in BtB.

The Fragstorm, heavy bolters and the TL ILC are the only Emplaced Weapons for Fortifications. Double check your rules for Fortifications. The spell out what units are Gun Emplacements and the ones that are Emplaced weapons.

Both of your answers are wrong.

Gloomfang wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

bogalubov wrote:So to take this point further.

If you have a quad gun on top of a bastion, can the quad be targeted?

The Quad Gun can not be targeted, as it has no profile, as it is an Emplaced weapon. P.96 has more information

You can destroy them by targeting the Building and getting the correct result on the vehicle damage chart.

bogalubov wrote:Also, can I fire the quad gun from the safety of inside the bastion?

Yes, if the building is occupied you can fire one of the Emplaced weapons. P.96 tells you what you need to know.

Gloomfang wrote:1) Yes it can be targeted just like any other unit on top of a bastion.
2) No you can not as you have to be in BtB.

Neither of Gloomfang's answers are correct.

The quad gun is a Gun Emplacement, not an Emplaced weapon. Just because you choose to put it on top of a bastion does not change the fact that it is an Gun Emplacement. It is still has a profile and is a T7 W2 model that can be targeted sperately and must be manualy fired by a unit in BtB.

The Fragstorm, heavy bolters and the TL ILC are the only Emplaced Weapons for Fortifications. Double check your rules for Fortifications. The spell out what units are Gun Emplacements and the ones that are Emplaced weapons.

Both of your answers are wrong.

I think Gloomfang might be correct. It's not the answer I want, but the wording seems to side with his interpretation.

The key difference is "emplaced heavy bolters" versus "gun emplacement" for the quad gun.

The "emplaced heavy bolters" for the bastion and fortress can be fired from inside and cannot be targeted. The icarus cannon on the fortress too for some reason. These follow the rules on page 96

The phrase "gun emplacement" knocks it back to page 105 rules for battle field debris and can be targeted.

Yes, he is correct, the upgrade says Gun Emplacement for the bastion.

I read it as Emplaced Weapon, which it is not.

However it still gets a Cover save from the bastion If it is 25% obscured (3+ for the Fortification, which is really nice).


P.S. Edited my above post for correctness.

Gloomfang wrote:The quad gun is a Gun Emplacement, not an Emplaced weapon. Just because you choose to put it on top of a bastion does not change the fact that it is an Gun Emplacement. It is still has a profile and is a T7 W2 model that can be targeted sperately and must be manualy fired by a unit in BtB.

The Fragstorm, heavy bolters and the TL ILC are the only Emplaced Weapons for Fortifications. Double check your rules for Fortifications. The spell out what units are Gun Emplacements and the ones that are Emplaced weapons.

Both of your answers are wrong.

If this is correct, since it is placed on the bastion, does it take hits when the Bastion does? Is it subject to the str 3 hits suffered from the top of the building if it is destroyed? Does it make a dangerous terrain test to jump down? Where is it placed once the bastion is destroyed and becomes impassable?

If it is placed on the bastion (and that is not required) it is treated like any other model with regards to getting hit. That includes all tests. But once it is down it can no longer be moved.

I don't understand

If I take the aegis defence line the quad gun is a Gun Emplacemnt or a Emplaced weapon?

Second: if I have a squad in BTB with the quad gun, does the whole squad have T 7? or you can fire at the quad gun separately ?

They are totally different.


An Emplaced Gun can fire automatically at BS2, or can be manually fired. These are found on buildings and can only be destroyed by damaging the building.

Gun Emplacements are a seperate model with their own statline, they cannot fire by themselves and must be manned.


And this thread was kinda old BTW.

They have different rules, on different pages.

usa_supersonic wrote:
I don't understand

If I take the aegis defence line the quad gun is a Gun Emplacemnt or a Emplaced weapon?

Second: if I have a squad in BTB with the quad gun, does the whole squad have T 7? or you can fire at the quad gun separately ?

It is a gun Emplacement.

Gun emplacements are separate from the unit that fires them, so your opponent can shoot the unit, or the emplacement; but not both with the same unit(barring special rules of course).

 terminalmonky wrote:
I was listening to a podcast today and they were reviewing 6th Ed. rules and the point came up that Emplaced Weapons (p96) and Gun Emplacements (p105) were two completely different thing.

I read it's they we're one and the same but I wanted to pitch it up here.

My pinch here is that the upgrades listed for ADL and Bastion are Gun Emplacements and the FoR has Emplaced versions of the exact same weapon systems.

I also read it as they are one and the same. Only difference is they can be emplaced in a building, operating under the rules for buildings, or a piece of terrain, in which case they give it a profile for shooting.

In the datasheet for Aegis it says it's a terrain type: battlefield debris. So you go to pg. 105. All the rules you need are there.

In the datasheet for bastion it says terrain type: building. So you go to pg. 96. All the rules are there.

A gun emplacement is not a unit. It's a piece of terrain, it can't be placed in a building in the same way that terrain can't be placed in a vehicle. The rules for buildings are closer to that of vehicles than for terrain.

The FoR comes with 2 emplaced weapons with an option to buy some more emplaced weapons.

The Bastion comes with emplaced weapons and comes with the option to but Gun Emplacements (which may or may not be on the bastion).

The ADL has an optional Gun Emplacment.

Happyjew wrote:
The FoR comes with 2 emplaced weapons with an option to buy some more emplaced weapons.

The Bastion comes with emplaced weapons and comes with the option to but Gun Emplacements (which may or may not be on the bastion).

The ADL has an optional Gun Emplacment.

So now we can buy a gun emplacement as part of the bastion, and put it anywhere we want? Why doesn't the datasheet say Terrain type: medium building and battlefield debris? All I see it saying is Terrain type: med building (armour value 14).

 Meade wrote:
So now we can buy a gun emplacement as part of the bastion, and put it anywhere we want?

Yes.

Why doesn't the datasheet say Terrain type: medium building and battlefield debris? All I see it saying is Terrain type: med building (armour value 14).

Why don't Tac squads say: Unit type: Infantry and Vehicle (Tank) or Vehicle (Open-topped)?

 Meade wrote:

Happyjew wrote:
The FoR comes with 2 emplaced weapons with an option to buy some more emplaced weapons.

The Bastion comes with emplaced weapons and comes with the option to but Gun Emplacements (which may or may not be on the bastion).

The ADL has an optional Gun Emplacment.

So now we can buy a gun emplacement as part of the bastion, and put it anywhere we want? Why doesn't the datasheet say Terrain type: medium building and battlefield debris? All I see it saying is Terrain type: med building (armour value 14).

Because the Bastion entry only shows the thing without upgrades.

The Gun Emplacement is an option to purchase.

Happyjew wrote:


Why don't Tac squads say: Unit type: Infantry and Vehicle (Tank) or Vehicle (Open-topped)?

A rhino is not an upgrade for a Tac squad. It's a dedicated transport, is a separate unit and has it's own unit entry that clearly says what it is. Just like the bastion has a terrain type designation that clearly specifies what it can and cannot do, and what rules to use for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:


Because the Bastion entry only shows the thing without upgrades.

The Gun Emplacement is an option to purchase.

It doesn't say that it's battlefield debris: therefore it falls under the category of a weapon for a Building, whether or not it says gun emplacement or not. It never says to use the rules for gun emplacements on pg. 105. It only says its an upgrade that's a gun emplacement, but the rulebook has never specified that means anything different from am emplaced weapon, and to the contrary uses them interchangeably, therefore priority goes to the fortification terrain type.

Apart from where the rules for Gun Emplacements are listed on a separate page to the rules for Emplaced weapons, that place?

So there are two places where they seem to get the terms mixed up.
On page 89 they say the players have agreed to use this lascannon as an emplaced weapon. That does not affect the rules at all. The players can also agree to treat it as a grot if they really want.

On page 97 they are showing an example of a bastion, and call the lascannon an emplaced weapon. This isn't rules either. This is showing an example of a building. Whether or not they used the correct term when describing their example bastion isn't relevant to the actual rules. It just makes it a poor example.

In the actual datasheet for the bastion, there is an option to take a Gun Emplacement. These are the rules to follow when using this fortification.
A gun emplacement isn't a building you say? Well of course it isn't. The Building section doesn't contain any rules for gun emplacements.
Luckily, we have the definition of a gun emplacement spelled out very clearly on page 105. The fortification composition rules say that a fortification can consist of multiple terrain pieces, but it does not say they all have to come from the same terrain type.


Saying gun emplacements and weapon emplacements are equivalent because there is no rule which says they aren't is meaningless. This is a permissive ruleset, so there needs to first be a rule saying they can be the same thing.
And there is not.

Arson Fire wrote:
So there are two places where they seem to get the terms mixed up.
On page 89 they say the players have agreed to use this lascannon as an emplaced weapon. That does not affect the rules at all. The players can also agree to treat it as a grot if they really want.

On page 97 they are showing an example of a bastion, and call the lascannon an emplaced weapon. This isn't rules either. This is showing an example of a building. Whether or not they used the correct term when describing their example bastion isn't relevant to the actual rules. It just makes it a poor example.

And perhaps the sun revolves around the earth as well? Instead of assuming that everything in the book is an error in your favor how about you assume something very simple: GW never defined separate terms for weapon emplacements and gun emplacements; the language in the examples clearly demonstrates that. RAW is undecipherable/nebulous because they never made a legal distinction of these terms and instead use them as casual language. RAI, going from the examples, and the datasheets, as well as the omission of any description of how to place a piece of battle debris on a battlement and fire/assault it, clearly supports my position.

In the actual datasheet for the bastion, there is an option to take a Gun Emplacement. These are the rules to follow when using this fortification.
A gun emplacement isn't a building you say? Well of course it isn't. The Building section doesn't contain any rules for gun emplacements.
Luckily, we have the definition of a gun emplacement spelled out very clearly on page 105. The fortification composition rules say that a fortification can consist of multiple terrain pieces, but it does not say they all have to come from the same terrain type.

Yet, when the fortification consists of several terrain types, they clearly define it, as in the case of the skyshield. The bastion is clearly defined as a building, there is no permission for it to be anything else. There is no permission to any section of the rules other than that for buildings.

Saying gun emplacements and weapon emplacements are equivalent because there is no rule which says they aren't is meaningless. This is a permissive ruleset, so there needs to first be a rule saying they can be the same thing.
And there is not.

There is also no rules for battlefield debris being on a battlement, only the hint because similar language is used. Yet people make up rules about how it can happen, despite it not being described or supported anywhere in the ruleset. Priority goes to the terrain type rules in cases of confusion.

Again, GW never defined any legal distinction between the two terms. They only used them as separate titles for paragraphs. However, the rules for Buildings vs. Battlefield debris are clearly defined.

 Meade wrote:

GW never defined separate terms for weapon emplacements and gun emplacements; the language in the examples clearly demonstrates that. RAW is undecipherable/nebulous because they never made a legal distinction of these terms and instead use them as casual language. RAI, going from the examples, and the datasheets, as well as the omission of any description of how to place a piece of battle debris on a battlement and fire/assault it, clearly supports my position.

In the example on pg97 it mearly says that the lascannon is emplaced. It does not say how it is emplaced (as there are 2 types of emplacement). On pg. 89 they are talking about a bastion that was not part of either parties army lists, so they used the option described in that section that allows Emplaced Weapons to be used in deralict buildings if both players agree. Not sure why they chose to do it that way, but it is legal as the only weapons that can be purchased as Emplaced Weapons are Fragstorm Missle Launchers, ILC and HB.

There are very clear cut rules for Gun Emplacements and Emplaced Weapons. They even have seprate entries in the index.
As for how to place the Gun Emplacements, fire and assualt them, there are very clear rules for that as well. A Gun Emplacement is a peice of terrain. Terrain can be placed on other pieces of terrain. A Gun Emplacement can be fired by any unit that is in BtB contact. A Gun Emplacement can be assualted like any other model and it has WS0 so it can not strike back. Gun Emplacements can be shot at like any other unit.

Yet, when the fortification consists of several terrain types, they clearly define it, as in the case of the skyshield. The bastion is clearly defined as a building, there is no permission for it to be anything else. There is no permission to any section of the rules other than that for buildings.

And when you perchase an extra Emplaced Weapon it is also clearly defined (look at the HB option for the FoR). The optional Emplaced Weapons have a very clearly defined placement rules in the Fortification section as that is the only place that covers the rules for Emplaced Weapons. Gun Emplacements are not Fortifications, they are additional pieces of terrain that can also be perchased if you buy a Fortification that allows it. The same for the Comm Station (unless you are also claiming that Comm Stations are also Emplaced Weapons.)

There is also no rules for battlefield debris being on a battlement, only the hint because similar language is used. Yet people make up rules about how it can happen, despite it not being described or supported anywhere in the ruleset. Priority goes to the terrain type rules in cases of confusion.

Again, GW never defined any legal distinction between the two terms. They only used them as separate titles for paragraphs. However, the rules for Buildings vs. Battlefield debris are clearly defined.

Buildings are terrain. Battlefield debris are terrain. You follow the rules for placing terrain when placing your Fortification. The terrain rules allow peices of terrain to be placed on peices of terrain. The rules in the Fortification for Composition places additional restrictions on the placement of the pieces of terrain that compose the Fortification. Placing a wall on top of a hill is the same as placing a Gun Emplacement on top of a battlement.

GW has very clearly defined the rules governing Weapon Emplacements and Gun Emplacements. They should have used names that were not so similar though.