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I know this has been heavily debated back in 5th edition, but I want to clear the air for whether or not this new edition has validated that Jaws can affect jump units.

Quotes:

Space Wolf Codex:
Jaws of the World Wolf: "Monstrous creatures, beasts, cavalry, bikes and infantry models that are touched by this line must take an Initiative test.

Rule Book
Reference page: "Infantry=In . Canoptek Wraith Type: In,J"

Regardless of whether they are jump, it is in addition to them being basic infantry models. As being infantry models to begin with, they remain infantry regardless of any additional rules and can be subject to Jaws'd out.

Counter-argument: People used to say that it doesn't specifically state jump infantry.
Rebutted counter: Jaws does not specifically state Jetbikes in its description either, yet the FAQ clearly laid out that Eldar (and Dark Eldar) jetbikes are affected because they are sub-categories of bikes. Now in the rule book these are labeled as "Ejb" which covers the clarification of it being a sub unit, while Jump models are (refer to above) clearly labeled with the In to avoid any confusion about sub-categories.

Counter-arguments or valid point?

Page 47, top bold entry for Jump describes how Jump units follow the rules for Jump and their base unit type (Infantry, MC, etc)

So to answer your question, yes Jaws works on Jump Infantry just like Infantry

Yeah for back door rules changes.

But what does the FAQ say? Does it still say that Jump Infantry is not effected? if so then they are not effected.

Just checked and JI are not listed in the FAQ so they can be effected. But I just noticed that Artillery can not be effected by it.

Don't get your hopes up. Jump infantry still isn't affected by JotWW. There aren't really any "back door rule changes".

This is the same argument as last edition. You can't.

Jaws doesn't give permission to affect the unit's subtype, only the primary.

It amazes people still try to pull this trick.

CrashCanuck wrote:Page 47, top bold entry for Jump describes how Jump units follow the rules for Jump and their base unit type (Infantry, MC, etc)

So to answer your question, yes Jaws works on Jump Infantry just like Infantry

With the changes to how unit types are classed and the above, it seems to be a valid argument.

Jump Infantry are no longer as they were in 5th edition and thus there was never a RAW supported argument that allowed JotWW to affect them. With what has been provided so far in this thread a RAW argument has been made. The naysayers have yet to actually provide anything other then speculative statements.

I don't use JotWW, but instead stick my rune priests with my Long Fangs in a support role, LL/SC and LL/TW.

juraigamer wrote:This is the same argument as last edition. You can't.

Jaws doesn't give permission to affect the unit's subtype, only the primary.

Wrong. Jetbikes are a subset(or were) of bikes. Jaws gave you permission through the FAQ to effect the subset.

Also all subtypes are still part of the primary.

jbunny wrote:

juraigamer wrote:This is the same argument as last edition. You can't.

Jaws doesn't give permission to affect the unit's subtype, only the primary.

Wrong. Jetbikes are a subset(or were) of bikes. Jaws gave you permission through the FAQ to effect the subset.

Also all subtypes are still part of the primary.

"Were" is correct in regards to Jetbikes. The unit types listing now lists Jetbikes (and Eldar Jetbikes) as distinct unit types from bikes which means they aren't affected by Jaws any more.
Though the FAQ hasn't been updated in this regard yet so you may find some TFG that will argue that the 5th Ed FAQ still applies.

But to the OP, Jump Infantry are listed as being both Infantry and Jump. So Jaws will affected them.

What about FMCs?

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:

jbunny wrote:

juraigamer wrote:This is the same argument as last edition. You can't.

Jaws doesn't give permission to affect the unit's subtype, only the primary.

Wrong. Jetbikes are a subset(or were) of bikes. Jaws gave you permission through the FAQ to effect the subset.

Also all subtypes are still part of the primary.

"Were" is correct in regards to Jetbikes. The unit types listing now lists Jetbikes (and Eldar Jetbikes) as distinct unit types from bikes which means they aren't affected by Jaws any more.
Though the FAQ hasn't been updated in this regard yet so you may find some TFG that will argue that the 5th Ed FAQ still applies.

But to the OP, Jump Infantry are listed as being both Infantry and Jump. So Jaws will affected them.

Considering the that FAQ is titled as the 6th edition update, your argument that it is a 5th edition FAQ falls flat on its face as well as the assumption that someone following that FAQ is TFG. Would someone following that FAQ to hit the crewman of an artilerry unit also be TFG?

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:Considering the that FAQ is titled as the 6th edition update, your argument that it is a 5th edition FAQ falls flat on its face as well as the assumption that someone following that FAQ is TFG. Would someone following that FAQ to hit the crewman of an artilerry unit also be TFG?

I'm not familiar with the Artillery problem.
What is the issue there? Thanks.

I would consider someone who doesn't allow a DE player with Harlequins use the Harlequin update from the Eldar FAQ, to be TFG.
The fact is the FAQ on Jaws Vs Jetbikes literally doesn't make sense, since the question should never arise in 6th Edition as there can be no confusion that Jetbikes aren't Bikes as far as Unit Types go.

FMC should not be affected by the current Jaws until FAQ. FMC is a unit type. Jump MC is still affected by Jaws.

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:Considering the that FAQ is titled as the 6th edition update, your argument that it is a 5th edition FAQ falls flat on its face as well as the assumption that someone following that FAQ is TFG. Would someone following that FAQ to hit the crewman of an artilerry unit also be TFG?

I'm not familiar with the Artillery problem.
What is the issue there? Thanks.

I would consider someone who doesn't allow a DE player with Harlequins use the Harlequin update from the Eldar FAQ, to be TFG.
The fact is the FAQ on Jaws Vs Jetbikes literally doesn't make sense, since the question should never arise in 6th Edition as there can be no confusion that Jetbikes aren't Bikes as far as Unit Types go.

You are pointing to the bike/jetbike FAQ as being a 5th edition FAQ, yet in the same answer they detail that the crewmen of a artillery unit can be hit by JotWW. So is that a holdover from 5th edition and thus not applicable?

Just so you know, page 45 diagress with you also, specifically in the Eldar (and Dark Eldar) Jetbikes entry where it states;

"In addition to following all the rules for Jetbikes....."

Which refers you to the Bikes & Jetbikes section for Unit Types.

:.cue cartoon wah, wah, waaaah noise::

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:You are pointing to the bike/jetbike FAQ as being a 5th edition FAQ, yet in the same answer they detail that the crewmen of a artillery unit can be hit by JotWW. So is that a holdover from 5th edition and thus not applicable?

Looking at the back of the BRB the only thing that is classed as Ar is the Codex Ork Big Gun.
I don't know what the Unit Type of the Crewman.

In fact Artillery is no longer considered a vehicle proving even more so the out of date-ness of that very FAQ entry.

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
Just so you know, page 45 diagress with you also, specifically in the Eldar (and Dark Eldar) Jetbikes entry where it states;

"In addition to following all the rules for Jetbikes....."

Which refers you to the Bikes & Jetbikes section for Unit Types.:

Your point? At no stage are Jetbikes referred to as a subtype of Bike.
Page 410 is very clear what the unit types are.

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
:.cue cartoon wah, wah, waaaah noise::

Please keep the childish abuse off the forum please.
I've been nothing but courteous.

juraigamer wrote:This is the same argument as last edition. You can't.

It's a different argument to last edition, because last edition Jump Infantry were a completely separate category of unit, not a type of infantry.

They now follow the rules for infantry and jump troops, so anything that affects infantry will affect them, except where the jump unit rules specifically grant them a difference.

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:You are pointing to the bike/jetbike FAQ as being a 5th edition FAQ, yet in the same answer they detail that the crewmen of a artillery unit can be hit by JotWW. So is that a holdover from 5th edition and thus not applicable?

Looking at the back of the BRB the only thing that is classed as Ar is the Codex Ork Big Gun.
I don't know what the Unit Type of the Crewman.

Instead of just blindly looking at the back of the book to formulate your argument, how about you actually read the unit type entry, page 46 Artillery.

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:

Instead of just blindly looking at the back of the book to formulate your argument, how about you actually read the unit type entry, page 46 Artillery.

I'm not sure how one would "blindly looking at the back of the book".
At least I am unaware of the book being released in braille.

So perhaps instead of throwing out insults you might come up with an argument of your own.

Closing your eyes, waving your finger in the air, and then randomly putting it anywhere in the appendix would be akin to blindly pointing something out in the book.

I gave you the relevant page number and rules, for both instances.

Edited by Manchu.

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:You are pointing to the bike/jetbike FAQ as being a 5th edition FAQ, yet in the same answer they detail that the crewmen of a artillery unit can be hit by JotWW. So is that a holdover from 5th edition and thus not applicable?

Looking at the back of the BRB the only thing that is classed as Ar is the Codex Ork Big Gun.
I don't know what the Unit Type of the Crewman.

In fact Artillery is no longer considered a vehicle proving even more so the out of date-ness of that very FAQ entry.

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
Just so you know, page 45 diagress with you also, specifically in the Eldar (and Dark Eldar) Jetbikes entry where it states;

"In addition to following all the rules for Jetbikes....."

Which refers you to the Bikes & Jetbikes section for Unit Types.:

Your point? At no stage are Jetbikes referred to as a subtype of Bike.
Page 410 is very clear what the unit types are.

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
:.cue cartoon wah, wah, waaaah noise::

Please keep the childish abuse off the forum please.
I've been nothing but courteous.

Just to further point out the uselessness of your argument, the Big Gunz comes with 2 gretchen crewman. Looking at the back of the book is a means as a reference, it is not the complete rules.