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Hey all, another World Eaters question for the denizens of Dakka.

Regarding the Legion before the fall I was wondering if any Khorne related markings might have started to show up in legion iconography, what with the lodges being created in the traitor legions and the increasing use of the Butchers Nails within the World Eaters. I ask because I'm trying to figure out Iconography to denote Berzerker Dreadnoughts and those individuals who have received the Butchers Nails in my pre-heresy army.

So in sum, this is less an actual fluff question and more of a, "what can I get away with, while still keeping close to fluff" I'm thinking of making some sort of proto-Khorne rune, or one that wouldn't be easily recognizable by loyal Imperial servants, kinda like the order of the Dragon within the Mechanicum, or the Hydra brand that the Alpha Legion uses.

I would say almost certainly. The move towards the Blood god would have been a gradual thing I think after the discovery of Angron, and the use of the Butcher's Nails began to become more widespread. As you say, the Warrior Lodges would have been a good way to facilitate the following of Khorne, even as the more traditional marines in the Legion would have had misgivings about it (we know these existed, as they were purged at Istvaan, as mentioned in Galaxy in Flames).

There is even some evidence to support this, in the form of artwork of Pre-Heresy Kharn from the Collected Visions book, with the 'bunny ears' (the symbol of Khorne) already visible.



Can I ask what kind of symbol you were thinking of specifically? I did read about some in some fan-fic a while ago, where the activation rune of the Butcher's Nails was represented in the Marine's heads-up display by a skull with the World-Eater 'maw' around it, was that the kind of thing you had in mind?

Before the Heresy there was little knowledge of the chaos gods. The emperor might have been the only one who knew and he didn't think to share that info with anyone else.

In the HH books strange symbols are mentioned by those loyalists who went onto Horus' barge right before he turned traitor. So I think that behavior was starting to become prevalent before the full fall.

Also, in the short story "The Weakness of Others", Kharn remembers back to his initiation into the War Hounds and his drill sergeant telling him about a skull reaping competition. So I think the seeds of Khorne were sown a long time before that legion turned traitor.

So skull mountains and the typical Khorne iconography can be used for Pre-Heresy World Eaters.

Pacific wrote:I would say almost certainly. The move towards the Blood god would have been a gradual thing I think after the discovery of Angron, and the use of the Butcher's Nails began to become more widespread. As you say, the Warrior Lodges would have been a good way to facilitate the following of Khorne, even as the more traditional marines in the Legion would have had misgivings about it (we know these existed, as they were purged at Istvaan, as mentioned in Galaxy in Flames).

There is even some evidence to support this, in the form of artwork of Pre-Heresy Kharn from the Collected Visions book, with the 'bunny ears' (the symbol of Khorne) already visible.



Can I ask what kind of symbol you were thinking of specifically? I did read about some in some fan-fic a while ago, where the activation rune of the Butcher's Nails was represented in the Marine's heads-up display by a skull with the World-Eater 'maw' around it, was that the kind of thing you had in mind?

Good to know, I was thinking some type of simplified Khorne symbol, possibly with the company number incorporated or something, just so as not to draw suspicion, one of those, "oh that? Thats always been there, you hadn't noticed?"

i dont think that they did use a proto-khorne symbol as they already had the skulls, nails and triumph rope.
you might want to look in on Throne of skulls.com as they are totally world eater and khorne centred so if they dont know, its probablly non existent.

as for the butchers nails, i think everyone had them in the legion. it was pretty much the first thing that angry-ron did as primarch (after killing a fair chunk of his captians and beating the heck out of kharn)

you might also be interseted in this site:
http://wappellious.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/pre-heresy-world-eaters-raptors-and.html

i would love to see your world eaters! good luck with them.

Chaos Emperor wrote:i dont think that they did use a proto-khorne symbol as they already had the skulls, nails and triumph rope.
you might want to look in on Throne of skulls.com as they are totally world eater and khorne centred so if they dont know, its probablly non existent.

Well as pacific already wrote you can see Pre-Heresy Kharn with the "bunny ears" already, so it doesn't seem to be that much of a stretch that Khorne symbols might start showing up, especially if guys like Erebus are just strolling around with demonic text tattooed on his head and nobody is the wiser.

Chaos Emperor wrote:as for the butchers nails, i think everyone had them in the legion. it was pretty much the first thing that angry-ron did as primarch (after killing a fair chunk of his captians and beating the heck out of kharn)

The integration of the Butchers Nails wasn't as widespread before the Heresy, it was more of an "earned" right than some Opra-esque moment where Agron started going, "and you get butchers nails! and you get butchers nails! and you get butchers nails!"

Chaos Emperor wrote:you might also be interseted in this site:
http://wappellious.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/pre-heresy-world-eaters-raptors-and.html

thanks for the link those WE are excellent.

Chaos Emperor wrote:i would love to see your world eaters! good luck with them.

Check my sig for the link