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Ive been debating ( with myself) whether veterans are really worth it or not... i usually field veterans with grenadiers so they can survive longer, but in doing so i make them double what a regular squad of infantry is..... so i was wondering if simply taking the veterans out and leting the laws of sheer probability take its course with double the amount of regulars is worth it. i dunno what do you guys think?

I usually take just platoons of normal guys. But then again I run mainly gunline for my guard. Veterans are best in some kind of transport since there is less of them you can afford the transports and it keeps them safe. Plus you get 3 special weps instead of 1.

The consensus I've been getting as a new guard player is veterans are great but feel more like an elite choice. Basically use them as a quick hard hitting unit that is loaded up with special weapons. Basically stick em in a chimera or more likely drop them out of a Vendetta next to a stuff and unload til its dead. It's also preferred because it uses less models than other buids. It's a matter of preference, what you want your army to do, and how much you have to spend.

Think of it as an elite that you can take in your troops slot and scores. That is vets.

Plasma + chimera = awesome
Meltas +Vendettas = awesome

That's the two things you need to know about them

You can put heavy weapons on the chimera squads if you think they'll be sitting around for a couple of turns, turning them into light tank destroyers, but that's pretty much it if you're looking for a "competitive" choice.

For fun though, you can run them all kinds of crazy ways. Harker is a fun guy to take, and vets garrisoned in bastions (or heaven forbid the fortress thing) are effective as well.

I think Vets are good, and people definitely like them, but I'm not sure it's always for the same reason.

People like vets because its a unit with a bunch of firepower, and a relatively small number of guys to put together. This relates to the reason why they are actually good, which is the concentration of forces. Two squads of Guardsmen will almost always be better on foot than a squad of Grenadier Vets for roughly the same points. They've got twice the wounds, one less special weapon, but one more heavy weapon. Not identical, but even with one less BS, it's pretty similar firepower.

The concentration of force comes into play because of Chimeras and Objectives. Guard are pretty squishy, so if you need to go get objectives you need a Chimera. That puts a premium on power per model, since the Chimera's cargo limit is bodies, not points. Even without objectives, if you want a squad in a Chimera, Vets are the best choice, because they get the most advantage from the Chimera's extra mobility.

I think taking a mix is good, two or three squads in chimeras, and then two infantry squads on foot with a few HWT and basic squads will take up a lot of space.

Yes, vets are good and, more importantly, they feel like most other 40k units. Infantry platoons are more difficult to use, and their learning curve is very steep. Plus, mechvets are still very potent. They got a little bit worse, but those losses are pretty trivial. You can still build, field, and play a mechvet army in almost exactly the same way you did before, and still be just as competitive.

That said, I wouldn't bother with grenadiers. 3 mechvets with a doctrine is in striking distance of 4 mechvets. The latter will always be useful, the doctrine (no matter which you take), will always be situationally useful.

The only thing I could see different with vets now is that it makes more sense to give them a heavy weapon. You ARE living in a world of new-crons after all, and the difference between an AV13 nightmare and a bunch of AV11 skimmers bursting in flames basically boils down to a few BS4 lascannons...

I usually only field veterans. I can never pass up the BS4 and extra special weapons.

ive decided... il go with a little bit of both with my 2000pt... thanks guys

Veterans are like a scalpel. When equipped with plasma or melta, they are accurate and reliable. Using Chimera's to position yourself to deny MEQ's cover, or vendetta's can drop them off to meltagun a tank you need destroyed. They are very good for getting a bunch of special weapons to counter hard units, and being able to reliably use them.

I prefer to use one or two squads of vets in support of my two infantry platoons. Basically, the platoon just mobs an area, and the vets either do rear field strikes with special weapons, or "hide" in the infantry platoon, and when that melee unit obliterates one of my guardsmen squads, the vets shoot it to death with plasma, or something similar. You'd be surprised how easily your opponent can lose track of just how many squads are in the area, and overlook the vets.

Also, grav chute deployment from a valk with a demo charge is very fun, and just crazy enough no one thinks you would actually do it.

Veterans are great as they can actually hit things with some nice special weapons.

Yes, they really are.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Think of it as an elite that you can take in your troops slot and scores. That is vets.

Plasma + chimera = awesome

This.......
PGs got much better in 6th for the following reasons
* The changes to rapid fire letting you move 6" and shoot the PGs 24" from the hatch.
* The increase in 2+ saves due to the changes of power weapons means PGs have more targets
* The change of armor penetration rolls means AP2 means more

My standard chimeras now have 3 PG vets and 1 AC HW squad. Since the AC can now snap shot I bring one in each chimera.
I've switched half my chimeras to have heavy bolters in their hulls as they can also snap shot those.

This means the chimera can move 6" and shoot the following at 24" (Up close you double the PG and LG shots)
* Three STR 6 ML shots at BS 3
* Three STR 5 HB shots at BS 1
* Three STR 7 PG shots at BS 4
* Two STR 7 AC shots at BS 1
* One STR 3 LG shot at BS 4
Overall, its an excellent amount of shooting for a 180 point package. The fact that this is scoring is icing on the cake.

10 points for a BS1 Autocannon isn't worth it.

Testify wrote:10 points for a BS1 Autocannon isn't worth it.

once your park yourself on top of an objective you will be able to start doing some damage with it, and it will give your squad a little more oommpphhh, as well as making you better able to hot some flyers

I personally wouldnt take the autocannon because two shots at BS 6 is really not worth ten points. Your vets are going to be moving most of the game and they wont be staying in that APC so the two snap shots you get out of it are only going to a couple(if your lucky) wounds per game against MEQs. ditch it and use the points to give your blobs/Command squads some hvy weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

generalchaos34 wrote:

Testify wrote:10 points for a BS1 Autocannon isn't worth it.

once your park yourself on top of an objective you will be able to start doing some damage with it, and it will give your squad a little more oommpphhh, as well as making you better able to hot some flyers

You cant claim in a transport so theirs another turn of moving...

One thing, BS4. Worth it.

lonedrow02 wrote:I personally wouldnt take the autocannon because two shots at BS 6 is really not worth ten points. Your vets are going to be moving most of the game and they wont be staying in that APC so the two snap shots you get out of it are only going to a couple(if your lucky) wounds per game against MEQs. ditch it and use the points to give your blobs/Command squads some hvy weapons.

There are the reasons I bring an autocannon with vet squads
1) If you spend the 10 points on an autocannon, your not going to be shooting it at MEQ as its primary target. Flyers/Vehicles are the target.
2) It gets 2 dice to shoot with. If you shoot snap-fire for 6 turns, your hitting twice during that time.
3) It gives the squad more flexibility for a minimal cost.
My IG army currently moves to midfield and tries to establish control in that area. I have yet to find a better spot to move those 50 points to that will generate a better result than ACs in the vet squads.

1500 pt IG
CCS - no upgrades. They sit on top the bastion and shoot the quad-gun. There is not enough room on a bastion for a heavy weapon team.

PCS - 4 flamers (goes in vendetta)
2 Infantry squads - 2 AC, 1 MG (goes in bastion)
Vet squad w/3 PG, AC, chimera
Vet squad w/3 PG, AC, chimera
Vet squad w/3 PG, AC, chimera
Vet squad w/3 PG, AC, chimera
Vet squad w/3 MG, AC, chimera

Vendetta
Vendetta
Bastion w/quad gun

I think Ailaros is dead on- Vets play like other 40k squads- platoons definitely take work to get the most out of them.

So far in 6th, I've been running 1-2 Vet squads, with a Platoon. The Platoon usually forms my fire base while the Vets either run around plasma'ing stuff mounted in a Chimera or come on to melt(a) face(armor) in a Vendetta. I've also had some fun with Forward Sentries, deploying into cover and enjoying the look on my opponent's face when I tell them they're shooting at Guardsmen with a cover save that high.

Camo-vets with 3 plas and an AC can be tough to shift off an objective without committing assault troops and I've found opponents will often just try and ignore them until late game, thinking they can wipe them off an objective with a single turn of shooting.

Are a squad of Melta Vets in a Chimera still useable as a defensive-more mobile AT for platoons? I was planing on using them with plasma Vets in chimera and a demolisher as a mobile element to my gunline.

Probably, but they're not as necessary as 5th. If I ran mech vets I'd probably keep one or two around just in case I ran into landraiders or something. Another thing they'd be great for would be as an attacking element. With flat out now, you can move a chimera 18" across the board. Flat out a meltavet team across the board and hide them behind cover, and you have an extremely destructive, scoring unit that can cause a lot of havoc. Meltavets/ melta PCS/ or SWS team with /2 melta and a demo charge in a vendetta would probably be a better choice for that though.