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HQ:
CCS+ 3 plasma + medic + chimera m/l & h/f = 180

Vet: 3 melta + chimera m/l & h/f = 155


Platoon:
-Platoon commander (standard) = 30
-infantry + flamer = 55
-infantry + flamer = 55
-heavy weapons team * 3 autocannons = 75

Ratlings X 6 = 60

-leman russ + battle cannon + lascannon + pintle-mounted heavy stubber = 175

-vendetta = 130

hydra + pintle mounted heavy stubber (85)

Medic in your Company Command is iffy...30pts is a /ton/ of points for a 5+ FNP roll.

Your PCS is pretty...weak. Are you making that a Close Combat unit (thus the banner) and making them all CCW and Laspistols? Otherwise it is kinda weak as their banner doesn't do the same as the Regimental Standard of the Company Command squad.

The Platoon with only short range weapons will get shot apart and flee off the board after the first round of decent shooting. You may want a Commissar in each to make them Ld 9 and Stubborn unless you blob, then you only need a single Commissar. Do not ignore the Sergeant as Power weapons are still good (just not /as/ good as they use to be) and Melta nades can give you something for a Walker or MC that gets in CC with you, otherwise your waiting to die in close combat against anything decent... the overwatch rule will not really save you.

Ratlings are OK, but I would be tempted into splitting them up into two groups of 3 to give you more potential sources of sniper fire for different targets. You can always fire both on a single unit if you want.

You have a Vendetta, so drop the LC from the LRBT and the stubbers from both. Those points should help go to a Commissar for the Platoon.

With only 5 vehicles there can be issues... the Vendetta has to start off the board turn 1 and come in via reserves. The Hydra isn't moving and your LRBT is really only moving 6" per turn. This means your Chimeras will more than likily be out front and really be the first two targets of any anti-vehicle weapons. That 110pts could get you a LC HWS for example or get 'Forward Sentries' for your vets, camo cloaks for your CC and 3ACs for your Vets and each Platoon. Just saying...

I think the Hydra and Vendetta are solid picks, but I am not sold on a single LRBT and two Chimeras... get 4-5 Chimeras or two LRBTs (since you can't have both) or don't get any and get more boots on the ground.

cheers heaps for the feedback.
The platoon command squad is standard. It's only there as it has to be under the organisation chart, i'm not spending the points to upgrade it, and the whole platoon is only there as meat shields against the autocannons, tank, vendetta and hydra, and as last minute objective rush if still alive. They don't need to be strong, just take hits and delay. At 1000 points, there is no real use in sinking in a commissar. I'll ally them with Eldar to my 1850 points and take close combat roles from them.

Fair point with dividing the ratlings but i'm using them solely as monstrous creatures or MEQ, so they are going to be firing at the same squad, and don't want to make an extra kill point by splitting them into 2.

The lascannon and stubber upgrades are there mainly for the "weapon destroyed" randomisation under 6th edition. Those tanks are useless without their main weapons so they're included for versaltility, but mainly to decrease the chance of the main weapons being destroyed by such a result. Again, the only thing that those points would really go to, would be extra ratlings, as i don't plan on using the platoons for anything to make them worth upgrading.

The medic is in the company command squad to give the three plasma guns FNP. As there are only three of them, i don't particularly want to lose one to the overheat rule, so think that 30 points even if it saves one overheat; might just be circumstantially indespensible.

My army is based on long-range shooty-ness. I feel as though yes, the vendettas are the front lines, but they aren't really going to be out too far infront. I want to bring the enemy to me, so that when the vendetta comes in; i have the chance to pick up a potentially disembarked melta or plasma squad and drop them into an opening behind the lines. Again, that is circumstantial, i'm mainly grabbing them for the fire power. If the chimeras attract the attention and the tank, hydra and heavy weapons go ignored, i think it's worth sacrificing them. A chimera is worth 55 points, so any attack against a chimera is an attack thats not against something better.
If left alone, they let me make the guards mobile, which is an asset in itself.

My opinion is that a 1000 point guard list is not an assault army; i don't want to be upgrading them to be mediocre at something they're not designed to do. I'm focusing on long-range shooty-ness with short-range distraction functions until they are allied at later points with races that are competent at it.


Whata re your thoughts on this?


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*i can't remember at what value you can start taking allies, it might be 2000, but at any rate, you get what i mean by that i think

I'd ditch those ratlings and find an extra 5pts, and grab marbo instead. If your goal is to sniper a certain character or weapon, odds are 99.999999% of the time Marbo is a more efficient, hilarious, and reliable choice. Plus, he'll wipe out most of the squad he hits as well. Make sure to measure when you place him, so he's closest to the model you want dead. Then it doesn't matter where the charge hits, it still takes wounds from closest to him first. It's insanely effective and satisfying to watch. Plus the psychological effect can't be ignored as well, he's excellent at pysching out an opponent, since he literally can show up anywhere. He can also wreck parking lots, hordes, and termis all in equal order. Don't forget demo charges are ordnance, and you get 2d6 pick the highest on armor pen rolls!

Also, I wouldn't bother with a hydra. You've already got a vendetta, that should handle most air targets. At this points level, taking almost 1/10th of your army to kill fliers seems a little wasteful. Take a second HWS of autocannons and they'll probably do more most games than the hydra will. Weight of fire is your second best defence if the vendetta (somehow) gets knocked out too quickly. Taking lots and lots of autocannons will solve this, as you're bound to roll 6's eventually

thanks so much for the feedback. The funny thing was that i was just reading up on Marbo and considering that. i have only just started reading my 6th edition rulebook. Can he challenge? i'd still like to keep the hydra as the vendetta comes out on reserve and the hydra has been upgraded with a little firepower, but ill replace the ratlings with Marbo, and then play the list to see how it runs?


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HQ:
CCS+ 3 plasma + medic + chimera m/l & h/f = 180

Vet: 3 melta + chimera m/l & h/f = 155


Platoon:
-Platoon commander (standard) = 30
-infantry + flamer = 55
-infantry = 50
-heavy weapons team * 3 autocannons = 75

Marbo = 65

-leman russ + battle cannon + lascannon + pintle-mounted heavy stubber = 175

-vendetta = 130


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hydra + pintle mounted heavy stubber (85)

mudonshoe wrote:cheers heaps for the feedback.
The platoon command squad is standard. It's only there as it has to be under the organisation chart, i'm not spending the points to upgrade it, and the whole platoon is only there as meat shields against the autocannons, tank, vendetta and hydra, and as last minute objective rush if still alive. They don't need to be strong, just take hits and delay. At 1000 points, there is no real use in sinking in a commissar. I'll ally them with Eldar to my 1850 points and take close combat roles from them.

The thing is, without that Commissar they are not going to take hits and hang around. They are going to break and run. The PCS Banner only gives it +1 wound in close combat. The CCS Banner is the one that allows re-rolls for leadership. Read your wargear, since I pointed it out last post and have to do so again this post. Maybe you should switch your CCS with your PCS and put the PCS in a Chimera with 3 plasma and a med-pack and put your CCS with your Platoon to use the Banner you want and, I dunno, issue Orders like 'Bring it Down!' to your platoon, HWS, or itself. You get two of them... use them.

mudonshoe wrote:Fair point with dividing the ratlings but i'm using them solely as monstrous creatures or MEQ, so they are going to be firing at the same squad, and don't want to make an extra kill point by splitting them into 2.

Sure. Your choice.

mudonshoe wrote:The lascannon and stubber upgrades are there mainly for the "weapon destroyed" randomisation under 6th edition. Those tanks are useless without their main weapons so they're included for versaltility, but mainly to decrease the chance of the main weapons being destroyed by such a result. Again, the only thing that those points would really go to, would be extra ratlings, as i don't plan on using the platoons for anything to make them worth upgrading.

If the onlt point is to give you options to randomly roll for, the HB does fine in this role without 20pts spent on it for a single BS 3 shot. That 20pts is 2 ACs, 4 shots at BS 3, in your Platoons...specially when you want them to sit back. They then could be...I dunno, contributing to the fight instead of doing nothing?

mudonshoe wrote:The medic is in the company command squad to give the three plasma guns FNP. As there are only three of them, i don't particularly want to lose one to the overheat rule, so think that 30 points even if it saves one overheat; might just be circumstantially indespensible.

If you feel it is worth it and you want to afford it, so be it. But if you value your plasma that much, that also could be a 4th plasma gun and a Missile Launcher on your PCS or CCS. You have a 5+ save against 'Get's Hot', adding in another 33% chance doesn't seem to be worth it. Your choice.

mudonshoe wrote:My army is based on long-range shooty-ness. I feel as though yes, the vendettas are the front lines, but they aren't really going to be out too far infront. I want to bring the enemy to me, so that when the vendetta comes in; i have the chance to pick up a potentially disembarked melta or plasma squad and drop them into an opening behind the lines. Again, that is circumstantial, i'm mainly grabbing them for the fire power. If the chimeras attract the attention and the tank, hydra and heavy weapons go ignored, i think it's worth sacrificing them. A chimera is worth 55 points, so any attack against a chimera is an attack thats not against something better. If left alone, they let me make the guards mobile, which is an asset in itself.

The Vendetta has to move up the the unit, the whole unit has to be able to get in on it's move phase (every fig), or the whole unit waits outside. Other than that, this should work fine. The problem with your thinking concerning the Chimeras is that every guy inside has to survive a Str 5 hit if it is destroyed. That isn't 55pts they are shooting at, it is 180pts or 155pts. When you list a unit with a transport, everyone assumes that unit is in the transport. If you have a unit left to pick up with the Vendetta, great, but don't count on it or expect it. That CCS is the most expensive thing in your list, the Vets are the 3rd. This makes them valid targets. And at AV 12, that makes them targets for 2nd tier anti-tank weapons...this is what ACs and Missile Launchers shoot at. The Lascannons are going against the LRBT. First turn, both of your Chimeras and your LRBT could be dead. Then if your Vendetta doesn't show up turn 2, all that is left is the Hydra and you might be down to your platoon and Snipers. This is not unreasonable to expect at all. A 10 man Marine tactical Squad with a ML and Flamer is 170pts. Facing multiple sources of heavy weapon fire in a 1000pt list should not be suprising.

mudonshoe wrote:My opinion is that a 1000 point guard list is not an assault army; i don't want to be upgrading them to be mediocre at something they're not designed to do. I'm focusing on long-range shooty-ness with short-range distraction functions until they are allied at later points with races that are competent at it.

So... my suggestions make your list 'medicore'. I see. Well, for wanting to do long range 'shooty-ness', your doing really a 'medicore' job at it then. Chimera lists, specially melta Chimeras, /ARE/ assault lists. A LRBT is an attacking unit, as if it sits still it is a dead LRBT. For Pete's sake, the best thing to give you real long range Firepower is the unit your ignoring... your Platoon. If you /really/ want long range shooty-ness, have 3+ HWSs, a HW in each platoon, and one in the PCS. Firing 30-ish AC shots a turn is 'shooty-ness'. Plus it is cheap and easy to do for under 500pts, much less 1000pts.

mudonshoe wrote:
*i can't remember at what value you can start taking allies, it might be 2000, but at any rate, you get what i mean by that i think

I have not seen anything anywhere where they is a point level where you can not take Allies. But I will point out Eldar are Allies of Convenience, thus thier powers/effects consider your IG enemy units...so no 'Guide' on your AC HWS.

Let me suggest a list, using a couple of things you obviously want.

CCS - 85pts
LC, Standard

Vets - 155pts
3x Melta guns, Chimera (ML/HHF)

4x Ratlings - 40pts

PCS - 125pts
4x Melta guns, Chimera (ML/HHF)

Blob (2 Platoons) - 165pts
2x Flamer, 2x AC, Commissar

AC HWS - 75pts

LRBT - 150pts

Vendetta - 130pts

Hydra - 75pts

1000pts

And since I mentioned 30 AC shots for 500pts...

PCS - 45pts
AC, Sniper Rifle

Blob (2x Platoons) - 155pts
2x ACs, Commissar

4x AC HWS - 75pts each (300pts)

15 ACs, 30 shots, 500pts
Get a Lord Commissar with a Camo Cloak (80pts) and a CCS with a LC, Plasma gun, Banner and Camo Cloaks (120pts) and place all the HWSs withing 6" of the Lord and they all have Ld 10 for Pinning, orders, and moral checks, plus a re-roll if withing in 12" of the CCS. Issue 'Bring it Down!' Every turn on a HWS or even the CCS with that BS 4 LC and you have plenty of firepower to deal with pretty much every foe as well as hard units to break when they get shot at. For the last 300pts fill in as desired.

i'm sorry, i'm deleting your post. Disliking the arrogance and negativity. And i'm trying to tell you that my platoon command squad is standard, i don't need to read the wargear as it's not equipped with anything

Good luck with that...

If you've ever played against eldar, you'll know why I dislike heavy weapon squads. Not only are they terrifyingly vulnerable to instant death, lack any ablative wounds, but a single hws is 15 points more expensive than just grabbing the weapons on your infantry squads and platoon command squad. Sure its nice having all your heavy weapons together for orders, but with ld 7 and no option for Vox, you need a lord commissar to reliably cast orders, and not run off the table after fire. Hws have a place, but not in low point games where they just allow your opponent to effortlessly gut a large percentage of your firepower. You will be better served with those cannons in a 20 man blob with a commissar for both orders and leadership.

Also krak grenades. Now that you can throw them, and with the buff to hit against walkers, mc, and moving tanks, they are worth every point on your infantry squads.

Quite frankly, your list is all over the place.

mudonshoe wrote:

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HQ:
CCS+ 3 plasma + medic + chimera m/l & h/f = 180
The Plasmas are good, and I get your reasoning behind the medic, but those points are better spent on Carapace armour for what you want it to do. It frees up space for another plasma, allows a 4+ save (Which is quite useful) and isn't ignored by S6+. Chimera HF's are a lot worse now as well, considering if an enemy gets that close, your transport will most likely be popping before you can use it. Heavy bolter gets my vote, as you can cruise and still snap it, and it fits more with the multi-laser's target priority.

Vet: 3 melta + chimera m/l & h/f = 155
Meltavets are fine, but I'd ditch the HF as said above


Platoon:
-Platoon commander = 30
Waste of a KP/squad. Give them 4 flamers, throw them in the vendetta. On any turn where it doesn't have good targets, fly it off the board, grav-chute them next to an enemy squad, and drop some fire on them.
-infantry + flamer = 55
-infantry = 50
Pretty odd here. 20 man blobs crumple like paper, so that flamer is likely wasted points. If they are truly a speedbump, Make them no-equipment, but I'd find points for a third squad and give them 3 autocannons. It becomes essentially an HWS with 24 ablative wounds, that can put out some solid firepower with BiD from the CCS.
-heavy weapons team * 3 autocannons = 75

Marbo = 65
Decent, but kindof a waste of points at such a low value. He is more likely to make his points back in a larger game with more high-value targets for him to knock off.

-leman russ + battle cannon + lascannon + pintle-mounted heavy stubber = 175
LRBTs are a backfield unit for doing one thing; dropping pie-plates. They aren't as good as other plate-droppers, but they have the staying power. Make good on that. The stubber can go; it's a waste of points and doesn't do much of anything to an LRBT's proper targets. The LC is decent, but consider a Heavy Bolter, as they are more solid against infantry, which the Tank should be shooting.

-vendetta = 130
Good choice, though if the opponent has any AA, this will get focus-fired fast.

hydra + pintle mounted heavy stubber (85)
Again, stubber can go. In low point games like this, those points will go to much more value elsewhere.

All in all, you seem to have a bunch of solid, separate options mish-mashed together into an amalgam of different lists. I would ditch the Hydra altogether, pick up an Aegis Defense line, and run it with the Quad-gun. T7 W2 is nice for a Hydra emplacement, and it can fire at ground stuff as normal. The Aegis Shield-Line is amazing for keeping blobs alive. Even if you use the blob as a speedbump, this way when they go to ground, they have a TEQ save keeping them in place. I'd drop marbo too, he simply doesn't do much in 1000pt games. He shines in large games as a big-target slayer, or in 500pt games as a way to decimate half of their list in one turn. Leman russ should be parked behind the aegis too, and if you have 20 points, slap on camo-nets. 3+ save on an AV14front vehicle is insanely hard to kill.

Best of luck
-The Captain

thankyou so much for your feedback. I really laughed at what you wrote about the PCS with flamers in the vendetta as that's how i was running them originally. I did also havebolters on the chimera so i might revert those back. I re-wrote the list last night and am wondering if this is a bit of an improvement:

CCS:
-4 plasma, chimera M/L & H/B

Vets:
-3 melta, chimera M/L & HB

Platoon:
-PCS with autocannon
-Inf: with missile launcher
-inf with missile launcher
-heavy weapons squad: 3 X autocannons

5 ratlings

Vendetta

Leman Russ: battle cannon & las cannon

Hydra






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I will also look into your suggestion about the defence line. I lent my rulebook to a friend last night so will get it back tomorrow and see how that works, especially if that anti-air works against ground troops :-)

Thanks so much for your help



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if i've got room in terms of points, i might get rid of those ratlings and the hydra, add another infantry squad with missile launcher, and see if i've still got the points to put in the defense line.

whoa bro.... go easy on the ratlings.... you only need about two squads.....

i definitely need to look into the camo nets for the LR. even if i don't find the points in this list, definitely worth it for the 2 that will be in the 1850

mudonshoe wrote:i definitely need to look into the camo nets for the LR. even if i don't find the points in this list, definitely worth it for the 2 that will be in the 1850

I would. A 3+ save (Camo nets behind an Aegis) means it ignores 66% of any glances or pens.

That means a Meltagun at 12" range only has a 5.28% chance of glancing front armour on a hit, at 6" range a 16.5% chance of penning. And it has to get that close and hit you first. Even S10 only gets an 11% chance of penning on a hit.

At BS3 you halve those values, and BS4 they're still 2/3.

Math shows it, your Leman Russ isn't dying with that save easily.

so you're thinking (assuming that the defense line + Quad gun is 100 points for now => i get my rulebook back tonight)

CCS:
-4 plasma + chimera h/b & m/l

Vets:
-3 melta + chimera h/b & m/l

PCS:
-autocannon

infantry
-missile launcher

infantry
-missile launcher

Heavy weapons squad:
-autocannons

Vendetta

Leman Russ:
-Battle cannon, las cannon & camo netting

Defense line + quad gun

Total 995 points

Yeah. Slap that last 5 points on a grenade launcher for the PCS for a tiny bit more transport-popping action.

Beauty :-). Cheers heaps for the help. How do people usually model the camp netting? Any ideas?


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*camo


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akaean wrote:If you've ever played against eldar, you'll know why I dislike heavy weapon squads. Not only are they terrifyingly vulnerable to instant death, lack any ablative wounds, but a single hws is 15 points more expensive than just grabbing the weapons on your infantry squads and platoon command squad. Sure its nice having all your heavy weapons together for orders, but with ld 7 and no option for Vox, you need a lord commissar to reliably cast orders, and not run off the table after fire. Hws have a place, but not in low point games where they just allow your opponent to effortlessly gut a large percentage of your firepower. You will be better served with those cannons in a 20 man blob with a commissar for both orders and leadership.

Also krak grenades. Now that you can throw them, and with the buff to hit against walkers, mc, and moving tanks, they are worth every point on your infantry squads.

I'm so sorry, I only just saw your post. Thank you so much for the feedback. At the moment I'm not too worried about eldar as a this point level I'm only up against a space wolf and a tyranid opponent as my local shop starts their points at 1850. I will do that in the later lists for sure. I wasnt even thinking of the eldar, I was thinking more of Tau firepower. I would definitely be splitting them up for competitive lists.

I am very tempted with the krak grenades. I'm having a 500 point game tonight to trial the new rules, and I have made up a pretty non-competitive list (playing against the tyranid) but want to test a few things as I haven't used plasmas before. I'll post the last in this thread a little later if you're Interested. I may spend the 5 on some krak grenades just to see how they work and if I'd use them, and then I'll consider making the change.

Thankyou so much for the suggestions.


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I love the 20 blob + commissar suggestion, this hadn't occurred to me at all. I was just going to split them into 10 man squads which is pretty stupid really.

do you think that this would be a good blob line up:
-PCS 4 snipers
-(2 inf squads) 2 auto cannons, 2 flamers, commissar with power sword, 2 sergeants with power swords
-(2 inf squads) 2 missile launchers, 2 plasma, commissar

I could run two of these platoons, 2 leman russ' (with camo) 2 vendetta and a defense line (or two if the points were there)

And then build up the close combat element with blood angels?





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(2 platoon command squads with the 4 snipers)


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Or a list like this:


HQ: 155
Snipers + MOF + standard chimera


platoon A: 250
-inf squad with flamer,  autocannon, SGT powersword (75)
-inf squad with flamer, autocannon, SGT powersword, commissar-Powersword (120)
-PCS missile launcher + snipers (55)

Platoon B: 245
-inf squad with plasma, missile launcher (80)
-inf squad with plasma, missile launcher, commissar (115)
-PCS autocannon 2 snipers (50)

2leman Russ, lascannon & camo (370)

2 vendetta (260)

2 defense line + quad gun 200)



(1480 points)

Blood angels (allied for close combat):

370 for an 1850 list or
515 for a 1995 list

Keep your old list. Blobs aren't good in CC anymore, and they get shot to bits trying to get close with weaker cover. Autocannons are good on blobs though, and are complimented well by Plasma or Grenade Launchers. You also can only take one Fortification.


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Also, this link is a great tut for camo-netting.

http://calltoarmsmwg.blogspot.nl/2012/07/making-camouflage-netting.html

Thanks heaps :-). I really precise all of the feedback guys.


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Thanks heaps for the tutorial. I might make gauze "tarps" and then use sprues for posts (purely for the aesthetics). I'm doing sand basing so will make up a beachy one. Thanks heaps


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This is the 500 list i'm playing against tyranid tonight just to experiment

-HQ: 4 snipers (test sniper rules)
-Vets: 3 plasma, chimera (standard) (against anything heavy + test overheat +test effectiveness of plasma)
-scout sentinel (missile launcher) (for the lols)
-PCS: 2 melta, +g/l (kept behind in anticipation of some deepstriking gene stealers + test of effectiveness of meltas behind lines)
-inf (standard) (because i have to)
-inf (standard) (as above)
-heavy weaps (mortars)