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Hey BA players and armchair generals I am just curious to how jump infantry usage has changed for you, role changes and gear changes. Here is a few observations and changes I am currently undergoing and testing after getting a better understanding of the rules and a good deal of games.

RAS - I have gone from running 3 to running 2 from 5th to 6th due to the reserve roles (I play devestator heavy so scouts get some time to shine), the load-out for the marines is still 2 melta and I dont see that ever changing. However, on the sgt I have gone from a PF sarg to a meltabomb sarg. I have found that with the pf I always get challenged by something that can hit first, so to keep the RAS cheap (they are a bit more disposable now overall with new FC and over-watch) I just take meltabombs for the AV and MCs. Overall I don't feel RAS are technically worse off, I just find for my own playstyle you cannot depend on them as you once did.

SG - These gentlemen have gone from dust collectors to being in most of my lists over 1500, the AP cc rule changes have made them a better investment and a priest in tow make them flying terminators. They are still not the very best CC unit out there, getting them mixed up with other codex CC beasts will usually not go well for you, but thats not to say they are not very viable. I currently run them 3 power swords, 1 power axe (I believe this is allowed RAW) and 1 PF. I was curious if anyone finds the chapter banner worth the 30 points for the 5+ attacks from the guard and w/e you get from attached characters. Also what HQ goes best with SG? Dante even though he hits at i1 or a rescularch (though rerolls to hit are kinda lost on master-crafted weapons)....

HG - When you need a priest with a jumppack the HG is still the best bang for your buck. Last edition I ran them 3 melta + Blood Champion and they excelled at eating transports and being a good second charge unit. Now with the changes to rapid fire weapons its the return of the plasma guard for me, 36" threat range makes them a real strong support unit (that meshes well with a RAS/Sternguard list IMO).

Vangard Vets - In 5th I can honestly say I tried the VV but I think I ran them in a way that was not efficient (way too may points), yet with the reserve rule changes I am oddly becoming attracted to them once again, the need for a deep striking interceptor unit has only increased (and I think it will continue too as footsloggers gain a little more ground). I am thinking of running them 1 PF/TH and rest plain, or 1PF/TH 1 PW rest plain. Any input to have to best use 1 single group of VV in a devestator/ras list would be appreciated.

JP techmarine - This man was my star in 5th, bolster defences for my devestators + deepstrike combi melta was a fun combo... however with the changes to cover saves and the improvements to sternguard and SG I will miss this guy :(

DC - still too costly in JP, love them in a droppod though.

Anyways a 3:30am rant, how has Jump infantry changed for you? Has it changed at all?

Maneuverability is still very important on the table-top.

I find DC with bolters and jump packs quite useful. Assaulting after rapid fire is great.

I have also toyed with Lemartes. 8 attacks at strength 8 on the charge re-rolling to hit and wound is pretty impressive.

SG have glaive encarmines - they have their own special rules and are not power swords or axes.

Glaive Encarmines are two handed master crafted power weapons!

E.g. two-handed master crafted power sword
two handed master-crafted power axe

Well, I'm both a player and armchair general.
The last game in the 5th (June '12), I battled with my DoA against mech BA. It was a draw since the Dread with blood talons ruined my day. Nevertheless I fully wiped out his infantry in Razorbacks and took down all tanks up to one Stormraven.

What has changed?
1) Keeping everything in reserve is no longer possible. But with the possibility of night fight on 4+, this is not going to be a big drawback.

2) Mech armies are easier to pick apart in the 6th, since tanks can be hit at 3+ in cc. In said game my opponent moved his tanks over 6'' so that my appearing Vanguard were only able to hit them at 6+ in cc.

3) Vanguard got much better. I usually ran 3x 5 Vanguard Vets with powerfist at the 2000 pt level. Their task has been to silence enemy guns. Now they are going to destroy the Vindicator on the charge.

4) SG is still very situational. Small and expensive unit that excels only against very specific units, like small MEQ units (Devs, Havocs and the like) but go down easily against cc oriented units or armies (Nids, Orks).

lunarman wrote:Glaive Encarmines are two handed master crafted power weapons!

E.g. two-handed master crafted power sword
two handed master-crafted power axe

By this reasoning then I could model Dante's axe as a sword or spear. I wish it were so, then Dante's initiative wouldnt take a hit.

By far dc got the largest boost in 6th. A squad of 5 is about the same as sg. I have not yet tried out sg but having a ton of mc pw to deal out damage and 2+ saves is amazing. Sg still need to be worried about meltas though which are still alive and well.

Basically astorath and dante got boosted in different ways and their specialty ar,ies did as well. A full dc army hits harder and can be directed rather then fire and forget. Only issue is that you need to wipe out the opponent to really win.

Dante and a full sg army got boosted by the magical 2+ save. Add a few priests and you have what almost equates to termies running around. They also no longer fear power swords. No sargeant also means no challenges unless you have the priest who can basically refuse and hide and avoid being hit.

Priests can now be challenged which is a boon and a hit. Deck them out with nothing and refuse the challenge. So you lose his attacks. What is better fnp or a few extra attacks?

Well, I generally stay away from special HQ's even for my Eldar (hello Eldrad). Instead, I go with one or two Librarians w/ jump packs leading a Honor Guard with 4 special weapons.

Actually I found vanguard before relied on combat squading on arrival. Now you need to decide what weapons you'll want before hand.

Also the comment about going from 3 to 2 RAS, I assume you have some scoring units elsewhere.

The major change is not going for a DoA army. Giving the enemy nothing. Then strangely cover changes means running across the field is more dangerous.

The set up of squads probably should change but things like powerfists are still useful. Then, for example, I thought 4 plasma guns for the honour guard was excellent before, so now when everyone changes to this I see no change.

Need more games or more comfortable arm chair to sit back and think about it all.

Vanguard Vets are still a key unit for a DoA army and it even got better at charging a vehicle with rear armor 10 or an infantry unit.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

lunarman wrote:Glaive Encarmines are two handed master crafted power weapons!

E.g. two-handed master crafted power sword
two handed master-crafted power axe

By this reasoning then I could model Dante's axe as a sword or spear. I wish it were so, then Dante's initiative wouldnt take a hit.

Thats perfectly legal.

In order to be a "Unique" power weapon it must have rules that are specifically unique to that particular weapon. Two handed and Master Crafted are not Unique, they are Universal Special rules.

Of course the fact its name is "The Axe Mortalis" kinda boxes you in.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

lunarman wrote:Glaive Encarmines are two handed master crafted power weapons!

E.g. two-handed master crafted power sword
two handed master-crafted power axe

By this reasoning then I could model Dante's axe as a sword or spear. I wish it were so, then Dante's initiative wouldnt take a hit.

I have seen this discussion elsewhere on SG vs Dante and Astro for weapons. I'll try to keep this as short as possible.

Sanguinary Guard. pg 50
Glaive Encarmine: A glaive encarmine is a two-handed master crafted power weapon.
Pretty straight forward, its a power weapon of un-established type (does not state in the description a power weapon type) and therefore is able to be a axe, sword, or mace. The default ap3 pw is for unusual weapons, which this is not.

Dante pg. 53
The Axe Mortalis: The Axe Mortalis is a master-rafted power weapon.
It states in the description that it is a axe, therefore falls under the axe pw as shown in the 6th ed. Its unreasonable to expect a older codex to state "The Axe Mortalis, is a axe". This is both a RAW and a common sense thing IMO. Though I do wish it wasent the case as it hurts his high initiative.

Also the comment about going from 3 to 2 RAS, I assume you have some scoring units elsewhere.

Yes, I have always been a ran of Devestator squads (cheap devs woot) and with the change to hull points they have became more of a valid choice. I often run 5-15 scouts depending on mission.

Well, I generally stay away from special HQ's even for my Eldar (hello Eldrad). Instead, I go with one or two Librarians w/ jump packs leading a Honor Guard with 4 special weapons.

Do you run them with divination Librarians for the rerolls to hit? I do something similar with a librarian + sternguard.

My arm chair is without the arm rests so I need to get more games in to really gain a better opinion of the VV, being that I am not a pure JP army the challange for me is to find the right balance of Jump Infantry: RAS/VV/SG/HG and firebase....

Luckily for Dante, at least he can use his I6 for Hit & Run.

I must say that DC for me have been pretty awesome. I played a game vs SW, a 4 man DC company was able to wipe two full GH squads. Now it only had 2 left after the combat, but I was still very impressed, the change to FNP sucked a bit but the update to the Rage rule made them even greater!

I am just recently rethinking my inclusion of PFs. I have started to go with a power swords due to challenges. I take meltabombs for the tanks if need be anyway. I run full JP Army, but I believe I will be including a decent size group of DC over 1k points. I need to mess with points, possibly giving up some devs.

Please, let's not get into the whole Glaive/Axe thing here *again*...

I find that the changes haven't really changed how I play my lists. My Assault Squads have always been mixed (one squad plasma pistols, one squad melta) so I'm happy that plasma is now a bit more useful. I don't have Sanguinary Guard yet but can see myself getting some now. I also run my Vanguard as an interruption unit - 5 strong, 1 fist, 1 sword, there to drop down and immediately charge something that needs dealing with pronto - so in that respect, they're still the same.

What's really changed for me is the decision making to be made in the use of the packs themselves. That is - do I use them to move, or to charge? Unfortunately, I find myself not liking the choice because it slows down my playstyle - which is a major reason I like Blood Angels to begin with.

You asked whether the Chapter Banner was worth it - and in a way this extends to the Sanguinor's similar bonus. It's only worth the extra points if you're going to use that unit with the bulk of your force. With a jump pack force you should be concentrating in one area anyway, as you have to deal with a reduced headcount from the cost. The extra attack from the Honour Guard on their own is not that much to shout home about, but if you combine their charge with another unit it'll tip the odds. Likewise, you want as many units as possible gaining from the Sanguinor's 6" bonus range (and, funnily enough, Sanguinary Priests too).