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So I was wondering once I have gotten a few "must have" units for my growing Cygnar army I was wondering should I take a Defender, Triumph, or a Cyclone or all of them?

I currently have the stryker battlebox with an gun mage adept.

Like I say I will get a full unit of gun mages and long gunners (which are the "must have" units ive heard about) but I was wondering what should I get next out of those?

Im planning to stay with stryker untill I have a nicely sized army and after that I want eCaine.

So what do you all think?

Cheers to all comments.

eCaine is quite a selfish caster when it comes to focus. I'd suggest getting a Squire and Jr. to run with him. I'd buy the Ironclad/Defender/Cyclone kit and magnetize it so that you can swap between the warjacks as you need to. I'd personally choose the Defender and get Jr to run him as that is all the focus that the defender needs.

I'd choose the Defender over the Cyclone because between Caine and the Gunmages you have plenty of anti-infantry firepower, but not much that can really threaten a heavy warjack. The Defender's Heavy Barrel will help to counterbalance that.

Hope that's some help!

Thanks I will get tons of magnets for me Cygnar (after all it is going to be my only warmachine army so why not?)

Just one question, why not Triumph I have heard he has a better version of the gun?

Also what about stryker?

Cheers to all comments

Triumph is a viable option, more expensive than the Defender, but with some nice tricks as well, but doesn't give you the option of swapping between the Defender and Cyclone. If you like the model go for it!

As for Stryker, from the battlebox I bought the Black 13th. Great toolbox unit, allowing you to ignore stealth (Take that pDenny!), the penalty for firing into combat, and for blocking line of sight and movement. O' Rowdy is also a good purchase for Stryker due to their affinity, giving Stryker the ability to ignore knockdown effects and Rowdy can run and charge for free, as well as having better MAT and ARM than an Ironclad. Squire is again a good choice (who doesn't love extra FOC?).

If you have your Gun Mages Jack Marshal a Defender, that can be very nice and quite effective. I don't play Cygnar myself, but most people

I hear from do not think Triumph is at all worth it, and he's usually viewed with massive scorn. I have heard a couple do like him, and he seems to Me like he would be good, given he's capable of ignoring Stealth with a stronger gun.

Cyclones are annoying early game with their Covering Fire, but suffer late game when everything's getting into melee and they're stuck with just a couple Open Fists.

I can't remember the last time I saw someone take an Ironclad against me that Wasn't Old Rowdy. He's kind of the opposite of Triumph where his upgrades are so good that you almost always want to take him over a normal Ironclad when you can. He's actually the jack I see most of the local eCaine players take.

Triumph isn't bad in itself, but it is severely overpriced for what it does. The Cyclone is good at controlling infantry--when you have a dozen Bane Thralls or Kayazy Assassins rolling towards your lines, it's good to be able to say no, you can't charge these things. They lack the nut-cracking ability of other jacks, though two open fists can allow clever tricks with throws.

Gun Mages are an excellent all-round unit, whereas Long Gunners can be situational. If you have a clear line of fire, don't need to throw troops into an objective area, or if you have Snipe on them, they're awesome. But they struggle against stealthy troops, people like e-Asphyxious, Phinneas Shae or the High Reclaimer who have anti-shooting tricks, or if there's scenery around that the enemy can hug or use for cover. Also, Gun Mages are some of the best marshals in the game, working very well with Defenders or Hunters, who love the addition to their already excellent ranged attacks.

I'd say Gun Mages are The best Jack Marshal in the game.

When I played Cygnar I always had a soft spot for the Hunter, extended (doubled I believe) control area and halves a target's ARM on damage rolls made it a fun little 'jack to run.

Hunters and Chargers are good little jacks for a Junior to run. They both operate to full efficiently at the two Focus he has left over after Upkeeping Arcane Shield. Plus being ranged jacks lets him stay back out of the fight where he belongs.

Defender (magnetized), Hunter and Minuteman are all very solid choices for jacks. And the Defender and Hunter make great jacks to be jack marshalled by the Gun mages. I would avoid Triumph as a new player till you have some experience to form your own opinion if he is worth it or not. Though I think he is a cheap upgrade kit and probably can be magnetized very easily from your defender.

The other thing I would recommend you think about is a melee unit. Stormblades or Precursors are nice and not too hard to get working for you. WM is a melee oriented game so better be prepared.

Also, check out the mercenaries. There are some very good things in that faction that cygnar has access to. One of Cygnar's strengths is being able to hire a wider variety of mercs than other factions. So it is a waste not to make use of it. Boomhowlers and Nyss are two units worth checking out.

And the new Stormwall collosal is simply awesome. He brings alot to the table for Cygnar.

 AduroT wrote:
I'd say Gun Mages are The best Jack Marshal in the game.

I would say Thor steinhammer is the best jack marshal in the game.

Also - I think many people dislike triumph because he loses the amazing melee weapon that the defender has.

Thor is not the best marshal in any way, shape, or form. He's an average marshal that happens to have a very good jack buffing ability that does not need to be on his jacks. The Dude is a way better marshal for what he gives his jacks.

People dislike Triumph because he's two points more than a Defender, is useless with the caster he's a special issue to, does far less than the regular Defender, and suffers from the Cygnar Named 'Jack syndrome.

I play cygnar and highborn, and I have to give thor the edge as a jack marshal. His drive, pronto, is better than snipe most of the time. It won't keep you at such a safe distance, but it helps you reach around corners or get line of sight. It helps other jacks get in closer for melee too; and he has one of the best special actions in the game that synergizes so well with his jacks. The gun mage UA is certainly in the top three marshals though (probably top two.)

But this thread isn't about thor, it's about cygnar jacks. Triumph can put up a fair fight but, like most "bad" warmachine models, is grossly overpriced instead of outright bad. You pay two points for only utility and gain no damage output from it at all. You lose damage output in melee, but triumph is specialized for firefights so I call that a wash. However, two points and the adaptability to fight in melee is not a fair trade for +1 rat, arcane precision(if it was real true sight I wouldn't be complaining), a shield, and blaster.

The non-character ranged jacks are all very good on their own and more limited by how fast the opponent is willing to rush into melee to shut them down than anything else. The cyclone is the only one that has trouble doing its job with focus alone due to the higher average defense of infantry. Rangers can be very potent with all of them.

Thunderhead deserves a special mention here as well, He has a shot range but energy pulse and sustained attack on a rof 3 gun make him a valuable asset.

P.S. the firefly is not a ranged jack. Field him for the spear and the stormcall anchor, and only use his pea-shooter as is convenient.

Get Captain Kara Sloan and Reinholdt and play a proper ranged Cygnar ranged list.

Ok thanks for your advice everyone but I need to ask a question.

When do I declare that a unit has marshalled a 'jack and how can I do it, and how dose it work?

And if I do is there any sort of coherency between the 'jack and the Marshall's? and can I still allocate focus to the 'jack from my Warcaster?

Cheers to all comments.


I am liking the look ok Kara Sloan as well she seems nice...

 aosol wrote:
Get Captain Kara Sloan and Reinholdt and play a proper ranged Cygnar ranged list.

Or pHaley and do everything but better.

@Happy: You do that at the time you build the list and when you deploy the unit. All your other answers are on page 80 of the WM rulebook.

I do not have the rulebook at the moment.

 happygolucky wrote:
Ok thanks for your advice everyone but I need to ask a question.

When do I declare that a unit has marshalled a 'jack and how can I do it, and how dose it work?

And if I do is there any sort of coherency between the 'jack and the Marshall's? and can I still allocate focus to the 'jack from my Warcaster?

Cheers to all comments.


I am liking the look ok Kara Sloan as well she seems nice...

Jack marshals are decided in the list building phase and there is no maximum distance a marshaled jack has to stay, but drives and certain other abilities require the jack to be in the model's command range.

Take a look at the new chassis jack, the Avenger. If I recall correctly, enemy models hit under his 4" template are knocked down. Marshall an Avenger, boost it's attack against one of your rangers that just ran fairly close to your opponents warcaster. and watch them drop to the ground (since all models are automatically hit by the blast damage), making E. Caine's job that much easier.

Also check out the merc, Madelyn Carbau. She is money for Caine(after Reinholdt and the squire, of course)

*note that I don't have a copy of wrath in front of me*


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingKodo wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
I'd say Gun Mages are The best Jack Marshal in the game.

I would say Thor steinhammer is the best jack marshal in the game.

Also - I think many people dislike triumph because he loses the amazing melee weapon that the defender has.

Thor is good, Arlen Strangeways is better. Better mechanic, better "drive" (I'm counting overboost, or whatever that focus allocation ability was called) and better in the sack.

Triumph also gets dogged for costing 11 points. There really is no reason for him to cost that much.

 AngryMarine wrote:

Thor is good, Arlen Strangeways is better. Better mechanic, better "drive" (I'm counting overboost, or whatever that focus allocation ability was called) and better in the sack..

I don't see how you can say Arlen is a better marshal when he does nothing extra for his jack. He can power booster, sure, but that doesn't need to be used only on his own jack. It can be used on any eligible jack. He is a terrific solo though.
Thor's tune-up boosts ALL of one jack's attack or damage rolls with the same targeting restrictions except it can be put on a fully loaded jack for a very strong force multiplier. Granted, that won't allow his marshaled jack to power attack the way Strangewayes' focus can, but otherwise it is generally better if his target has more than one weapon or attack. Then there is pronto, the best drive in the game on top of tune-up.

What Strangewayes can do very well is give a focus to a jack under a different cygnar marshal and allow it to really shine. He is a great solo and brings out a lot in marshaled jacks, but his own marshaling abilities aren't quite up to par with the gun mages' or sword knights' officers. If he had anything more he would probably be three points and much harder to get in a list.

 AngryMarine wrote:
Take a look at the new chassis jack, the Avenger. If I recall correctly, enemy models hit under his 4" template are knocked down. Marshall an Avenger, boost it's attack against one of your rangers that just ran fairly close to your opponents warcaster. and watch them drop to the ground (since all models are automatically hit by the blast damage), making E. Caine's job that much easier.

The AOE only does the Knockdown effect if the Target of the shot was an Enemy Model and was Directly Hit. It's a discriminating bullet.

I see folks are tinkering on who is the best jack marshall?
Has anyone touched on that the type of jack being marshalled and the faction matter?

From a Searforge player / former Cygnar player.

The reason many people "think" Thor is the best jack marshall in the game is his cost vs output. Searforge need focus efficient models. You can use thor to make an avalancher very very effective between the options available ~ drive, jack marshall bost, tune up to boost all rolls to hit / damage.

Driving an Avalancher is fantastic with Thor. So from memory jack gets to move outside of activation. You then boost the damage rolls. It fire off a huge ranged AOE 3 with high strength with boosted attack / damage rolls. Which typically can cause significant damage on jacks, and blow apart a shieldwall. Adding in Reinholdt, you can use coin's in case you happen to fail the command 9 check.
Down side: Rhulic jacks only from memory.

Arlan, in my opinion, is more versatile. Evasive can be fantastic for extra movement AND forcing opponents to burn focus / fury to hit if they want to stop the movement. Its great when an opponent brain farts, swings at your jack, and it just steps out. Power booster is more versatile, you get all the power attacks with a free focus AND removes disruption... which is not that important to a marshalled jack, but VERY important to the rest of your jacks. Cygnar also has more versatile jacks.

So overall game affect? I take Thor to a steam roller because he takes the load off Gorten, but is tethered to his jack. I used to take Arlan for the same reason, but the ability to power booster jacks NOT under your control is why he is more effective overall. Both have sprays, same boxes, similar stats, Arlan has reach though which does come in handy. AND he can be sacrificed to punch a jack Disruption on a spary which really comes in handy for those jack heavy lists that rely on focus.

njpc, that was a great post and I agree with you in many respects but I think Thor would rise to the top in any faction with his set of abilities. Placing one focus on any friendly faction jack that is empty does not compete with boosting all attack or damage rolls of a friendly faction jack that may already have focus. Thor only loses pronto when he isn't marshaling and e still does amazing things for a jack.

Give Thor to cryx and the leviathan gets scary, give him to cygnar and the cyclone is a murder machine, give him to khador and decimator and demolishers become frightening, let him marshal a daemon and watch large areas of infantry die, and I don't even want to think about Thor with a pet castigator under battle hymn.