Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Right, so I'm starting a small C:SM detachment as allies for my BA with a view to developing them into a stand alone force in the future.

Going to go the bike route, so will obviously need a biker captain.

My original thought was artificier armour, relic blade and stormshield as a load out to make him a challenge monster.

I'm now thinking that storm shield may be a little excessive points wise considering the iron halo comes included in base cost.

What says Dakka? Is the shield worth the extra pointage, or is there a better lookout entirely I've overlooked?

Artificer armor
Lighting claw
Power fist

That's what I would take

Do you not expect specialist weapon to get faqed to be two of the same to qualify for the bonus?

Guess I could break out the magnets...

I think this debate has already happened.
artificer, relic blade, storm shield+goodies seems to be pretty great.

Lightening claw is a good cheap alternative to the relic blade. Nearly as good but so much cheaper.

There was a logic behind having a fist for challenges. You can instant kill your opponent, and with 3++ or 4++ you will surely make it to I1 to hit.
If not taking SS, I do like the idea of fist and lightening claw.

All the extras he can take are reasonable ideas. Meltabombs and hellfire rounds are the ones you'll love.

How do you want to use your captain? Silly things like techamarines on bikes, librarians on bikes, command squad on bikes, will give some good back up in cc and will change your set up.

Artificer Armour and Thunder Hammer. Although the Relic Blade is still good the Thunder Hammer is AP2, double Strength and, most importantly, Concussive.
If you are charged by a unit with higher Initiative, assuming you survive the first wave of attacks (which you should), knocking down a few models to I1 can be a life saver for the rest of his squad or if Challenged it at least gives your Captain the chance get some attacks in before he dies.

Double Strength and AP2 is also nice for smashing up vehicles.

Peace Out!
Jonny!

Artificer Armor, Relic Blade, and Hellfire Rounds are my biker loadout. Storm Shield and Digital Weapons are up next if I have the points left.

2+ to wound at range is sweet, and doing it when you get a Precision Shot is even better.

He should hold his own in melee if they aren't STR 10 and will shine if against something that isn't a dedicated close combat monster... (dang wolf lord on wolf, grrr...)

I think people are clinging to the relic blade. It is a weapon from a bygone age. Thunderhammers are more visually impressive (and definitely help forge a narrative.... *blech*), but powerfist seems to be the way to go.

A relic blade against terminators means your captain is termie food.

The PF/LC is better than the relic blade.
Last edition, I would have pushed for the relic blade / SS combo, but in 6th its just less effective.

Artificer armor, digital weapons, power axe or power fist. If taking the power axe, add melta bombs. You don't need to waste points on a +1 to invul for toughness 5.

I'm struggling to understand why so many posters rate the Power Fist over the Thunder Hammer. Concussive has the potential to completely change the outcome of combat and for only 5pts i think it is well priced. Also Thunder Hammer models look cooler.

Win-Win

Of course it comes down to how you want to use your Captain what Wargear is best. If you really want him to be a "Challenge Monster" then give him everything you can but if you want to keep him reasonably priced and take an Unwieldy weapon, Concussive allows your Captain to at least take the challenger with him whereas he could easily be killed before he makes his attacks in the next round of combat with a Power Fist.

As for the people bashing on the Relic Blade it's still pretty good. You're on a bike! You can avoid 2+Sv units!
S6 AP3 I5 is nothing to take lightly.

It depends what i'm likely to be up against whether i'd choose the Thunder Hammer or Relic Blade. Both have their uses. For me though, because the Thunder Hammer can Instant Death T4, ignore armour saves, smash up vehicles... I'm sure i'm forgetting something... Oh yeah, and it's Concussive i think it offers a little bit more even if you do sacrifice your Initiative.

Peace Out!
Jonny!

RubberJonny wrote:
As for the people bashing on the Relic Blade it's still pretty good. You're on a bike! You can avoid 2+Sv units!
S6 AP3 I5 is nothing to take lightly.

Yes, it is good, but not 30 points good. You may as well just take a regular power sword at that point and save the points.
Or, for the same 30 points, you get S8 AP2 I1, concussive.

Thanks for all the comments so far. Certainly food for thought.

Taking the AP2 argument on board, what do people think about power axe, plasma pistol and melta bombs as a slightly cheaper loadout? GIve a lIttle Ap2 punch at range too. Would be great if there was an AP2 weapon the struck at I, but I suspect they are going to be proverbial unicorns in this edition!

If you have to go at initiative 1 then I would take strength 8 with 3 attacks over strength 5 with 4 attacks.

Concussive does make the thunder hammer more reliable in challenges with high toughness models than the fist, however I find myself struggling to find the extra 5 points to get the hammer. Bikes are an expensive (points wise) army.

RubberJonny wrote:I'm struggling to understand why so many posters rate the Power Fist over the Thunder Hammer. Concussive has the potential to completely change the outcome of combat and for only 5pts i think it is well priced. Also Thunder Hammer models look cooler.

How many t5 multiwound, or eternal warriors do you come across? How many do you rush towards such models with a mobile elite cc expert?

All concussive does it delay death so he can hit back, but in a very specific situation.

Hammers do look cool.

Yea I would only ever run the hammer. However that is 100% cause it looks cooler for 5 points.

MFletch wrote:

RubberJonny wrote:I'm struggling to understand why so many posters rate the Power Fist over the Thunder Hammer. Concussive has the potential to completely change the outcome of combat and for only 5pts i think it is well priced. Also Thunder Hammer models look cooler.

How many t5 multiwound, or eternal warriors do you come across? How many do you rush towards such models with a mobile elite cc expert?

All concussive does it delay death so he can hit back, but in a very specific situation.

Hammers do look cool.

I'm tired of people not reading posts before they quote things out of context. Two things here, in that quote alone i stated it potentially changes combat and seeing as the OP is looking to make a good Challenge fighter coming up against something that could survive the first round of combat isn't unlikely as T5+ multi-wound isn't all that uncommon nor is Eternal Warrior. At no point did i say it will make the Captain more survivable i just prefer the idea that if he is going to die at least he can get his attacks in before he does. I did already make a point that you can most often avoid things the Captain will not do well against and wherever you are going to use a PF a TH applies just the same.
For only 5pts i can't see why the PF is the better option (if you have the 5pts to spare) and, like i said, the TH looks cooler than the PF too.

azreal13 wrote:Taking the AP2 argument on board, what do people think about power axe, plasma pistol and melta bombs as a slightly cheaper loadout? GIve a lIttle Ap2 punch at range too.

The only time you want to be within 12" of a unit is if you can kill it dead without question so i'm personally not sold on the PP not to mention losing wounds to Gets Hot!. Getting Assaulted and Rapid Fire/lots of shooting is your enemy. There has been lots of discussion on Power Axes and i'm of the opinion they are fairly useless on a single model. +1S, +1A and AP2 at I1 is quite a specific weapon most useful against low T model with a 2+Sv but ineffective against high T or Vehicles. The only time i would take a Power Axe is in a unit that can take a few of them (such as Guard Blobs) and dedicate them to hunting/tar-pitting Terminators or similar units. There is a strong argument for the Power Maul but if you want to crack a 2+Sv model (and/or smash vehicles) the Power Fist or Thunder Hammer are the best way to go.

Peace Out!
Jonny!