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Hello again one and all...

I'm here asking about base sizes and rules for them, how specific they are on what things must be mounted on. For eg... I have recently been working ofn converting flying hive tyrant, and because of the nautre of the conversion, it will no longer stand on its own free will on the 60mm base it came with. Now I would like to mount it on an Oval base, but as I'm unsure how the rules pertain to this, I didnt want to proceed without double and tripple checking.

now i remember someone telling me once that all models must be based on the bases they come with... which is a tad perplexing when you take modern terminators and compare them to their 3rd ed counterparts... but I have also been told models should be based appropriately... which is also somewhat vague. Now I have seen in tourneys modern terminators based on 25mm bases, without a single complaint. So with that logic, as my tyrant isn't on a massive flying stem or practically laying on the ground, it would be based according to its size/nature (as I don't think its too much of a stretch to mount it on an oval base as the Tervigons come with them also.).

so theres my dilemma, thoughts?

You can only use the base the model came with, you cannot go to a smaller or larger base. You can, however upgrade to a different base if the model's base changed, such as old terminators on small bases to the larger bases they are on now.

You should be able to get your hive tyrant to stay on his base by putting weight on the underside and/or modeling stuff on the base to act as weight as well.

The rules aren't actually that specific anymore, juraigamer.

Models and Base Sizes
Therulesin this book assumethat models are mounted on the base
they are supplied with. Sometimes, aplayer may have models in
hiscollection on unusually modelled bases. Somemodels aren't
supplied with abase atall. In these cases (which are, in allfairness,
relatively few andfarbetween), you should always feel free to
mount themodel onabase ofappropriate size ifyou wish, using
models ofasimilartypeasguidance.

juraigamer wrote:You can only use the base the model came with, you cannot go to a smaller or larger base. You can, however upgrade to a different base if the model's base changed, such as old terminators on small bases to the larger bases they are on now.

You should be able to get your hive tyrant to stay on his base by putting weight on the underside and/or modeling stuff on the base to act as weight as well.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt that says "FAIL"

pretre wrote:The rules aren't actually that specific anymore, juraigamer.

Models and Base Sizes
Therulesin this book assumethat models are mounted on the base
they are supplied with. Sometimes, aplayer may have models in
hiscollection on unusually modelled bases. Somemodels aren't
supplied with abase atall. In these cases (which are, in allfairness,
relatively few andfarbetween), you should always feel free to
mount themodel onabase ofappropriate size ifyou wish, using
models ofasimilartypeasguidance.

Hmmmm thanks Pretre.


I do have to add here, that this is not a question of "Gaming For Advantage" either, as the model as been converted to fit my aesthetic wants as well as the background of my army.

pretre wrote:The rules aren't actually that specific anymore, juraigamer.

Models and Base Sizes
Therulesin this book assumethat models are mounted on the base
they are supplied with. Sometimes, aplayer may have models in
hiscollection on unusually modelled bases. Somemodels aren't
supplied with abase atall. In these cases (which are, in allfairness,
relatively few andfarbetween), you should always feel free to
mount themodel onabase ofappropriate size ifyou wish, using
models of a similar type as guidance.

It still refers to using a base of appropriate size, which would be the one it came with. Mind you, I personally wouldn't care if a nicely converted model needed slightly bigger base for the conversion not just to model for advantage.

A hive tyrant on an oval base can easily be considered modeling for advantage. I'm just trying to save you the trouble of playing in a tournament and having the model disqualified.

Yeah, I would agree that, while the rules are not as specific anymore, you would still want to based your model on an appropriate base for competitive events.

I have some rather largely based Warboss/Wazz models that are removable from the base in case there is a problem.

juraigamer wrote:A hive tyrant on an oval base can easily be considered modeling for advantage. I'm just trying to save you the trouble of playing in a tournament and having the model disqualified.

Not really. A large base is actually more of a disadvantage. Its easier to hit with blast weapons, more models can attack the tyrant in melee, and larger footprint for flying(meaning it can be more difficult to find places to end its movement)

Oval base allows pivot shenanigans for the tyrant though.

Really?

Thats the issue

I think any benifit gained from that would be so minimal as to not matter.

Isn't there a 1-2" difference between the two dimensions on the big oval? Not saying it is a big advantage, just an advantage that isn't present if you use the correct base.

Any benifit gained from that is going to be completely canceled by being easier to get hit by blasts and templates, and more vulnerable to enemy assault units.

Right, I'm not arguing that it is a good idea. I'm arguing that it is an advantage. I personally don't care (as I mentioned, I have upbased models in my armies).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Someone might care though and tournaments probably will, so better safe than sorry.

Who assaults a hive tyrant? Any nercon, SW, IG, Tau, or well any army but maybe GK are going to complain hard about the base size.

Then again, if you make sure the total move is still in the models limit and you didn't try to gain more by pivoting (something you can't do) then you should have no problems, but if you try for that extra inch and a half, expect problems.

I wouldn't care, any advantages are minimal and weighed out by the negatives others have brought up.

It's a good thing I don't play tournaments (as if they even existed in this area) because I'd be "that guy" with the 2nd edition slotta-based terminators with crossed arms saying "Sorry, too bad- I'm using them on their original bases. They've been like this for 15 years, I'm not remodeling my figures for the minimal difference a 25 to 40mm up-size would make".

Two of my other HQ figures would provoke an argument the other way, as they come from the times when putting a 25mm base figure on a bigger 40mm base was perfectly fine.

WH40K would find "basing" to be a non-issue if like some other games they measured movement and range from center-to-center, not by the edges.

Hmmm mixed reviews it seems...

well unfortunately I will have to stick with the oval base, as I said before it will not stand properly on a 60mm base...

I don't mind the negatives of doing this tbh, as I game for theme, I don't game to WAAC... I do this for fun and aesthetics, and tbh, my army list is pretty middle of the road while still trying to be competetive enough so as not to be steamrolled.

Your ONLY real concern as far as I can see it would be that you should check beforehand with the OT at tournaments.

I wouldn't wanna play with anyone that started whining about a larger base when it's clearly to accomodate a conversion.

Purifier wrote:Your ONLY real concern as far as I can see it would be that you should check beforehand with the OT at tournaments.

I wouldn't wanna play with anyone that started whining about a larger base when it's clearly to accomodate a conversion.

Thanks, and that was my main concern tbh... having said that I've all but retired from tourneys these days due to WAAC players... which is a shame.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/280663.page

Moving to YMDC.

ooops apologies Insaniak!!!

How did I miss that? I'm always reporting for wrong sub-forum. Damn.

People seem to be jumping on the word "appropriate" as if it must mean "original". I'd say that the oval base is an appropriate size for a model like a converted, dynamic Hive Tyant, especially if the original base makes the model unstable.

I suggest that if you want to avoid conflict, simply explain to your opponent (or the TO) before the game (or event) why you chose to use the base, and offer a compromise in the rules: to avoid "oval base shenanigans" while moving to the side, simply measure the distance from the side of the base and then place the model so that the front is at that measurement. No distance is gained, so no modeling for advantage. With any area of effect rules (such as synapse), simply be lenient towards your opponent with close calls (which you should be anyway, IMHO, but even moreso in this case).

As an aside, the term "modeling for advantage" really needs to stop being used so freely. It implies an intent to use the changes to the model specifically to gain an advantage (i.e. cheating), and assumes bad character on the part of the player, which is a little cynical IMHO. I'd rather use the term "modeling with advantage" with the caveat of "don't be a dick" in situations like this; do whatever you want, even if it'd technically give you an advantage, and simply make it clear to the opponent that you will go out of your way to avoid the advantage. Easy

Put the smaller base a larger one and clearly state that only the smaller base counts. Then tell him or her that the larger base is there because of necessity due to the conversion. Then have a system set up so that models can easily move over the larger base or even stop half on it or half off.

Now you have all your bases covered. And that's not a pun because it's a baseball reference.

pretre wrote:How did I miss that? I'm always reporting for wrong sub-forum. Damn.

Lols, you need to brush up on your eagle eyes then my friend

Cheexsta wrote:People seem to be jumping on the word "appropriate" as if it must mean "original". I'd say that the oval base is an appropriate size for a model like a converted, dynamic Hive Tyant, especially if the original base makes the model unstable.

I suggest that if you want to avoid conflict, simply explain to your opponent (or the TO) before the game (or event) why you chose to use the base, and offer a compromise in the rules: to avoid "oval base shenanigans" while moving to the side, simply measure the distance from the side of the base and then place the model so that the front is at that measurement. No distance is gained, so no modeling for advantage. With any area of effect rules (such as synapse), simply be lenient towards your opponent with close calls (which you should be anyway, IMHO, but even more so in this case).

That was my thinking really, its why I have heirodules on oval bases too (yeah I know its apocalypse, but the simple fact that everything dies quickly in Apoc makes no difference how big your bases are lols )

Kwosge wrote:Put the smaller base a larger one and clearly state that only the smaller base counts. Then tell him or her that the larger base is there because of necessity due to the conversion. Then have a system set up so that models can easily move over the larger base or even stop half on it or half off.

Now you have all your bases covered. And that's not a pun because it's a baseball reference.

Well as I stated in an earlier post, I've made headway into the oval base, unfortunately it nears being finished so I won't be able to do your suggestion (I also already used the tyrants base for my scratch built tardis objective marker ).

But one thing I have done to avoid sillyness, is to mark the forward point on the base with a plasticard triangle on the rim. This will be my measuring point, I will trace all measurements from it and to it (unless of course it is a template and that will be done as normal, and I fully expect to be hit with flying pie plates a lot!)

Pics will be available to see soon on my thread which can be found on my sig on the far right picture below.


I just hope I've thought of everything now lols...