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Hi everyone,

Was wondering how everyone is playing this. If i manage to ground a flying monstrous creature, do they then lose their bonus that only skyfire or snap shots can be shot at them?

I.e. I shoot at a flying bloodthirster ,and ground it, i then fire 20 guardsmen at it - do i need 6's to hit as it is still technically a FMC? Or as its grounded do i hit on my base 4+ now?

Nothing in the rules says that they cease to be Swooping and become Gliding. It's a dumb oversight, but all failing a Grounding test does is allow you to be assaulted in the subsequent assault phase.

Stand by for brutal arguments

/popcorn

Brometheus wrote:Stand by for brutal arguments

/popcorn

^^ As he well knows, this has been much debated before. Basically RAW: Yes, but RAI: probably not.

In friendly games, I'd discuss it with your opponent.

This has been debated to death. The majority of dakka seems to agree that RAW = they retain hard to hit. RAI is another matter entirely, people don't agree on RAI much.

K3, just turn it into a Poll.

The rule is messed up, as stated above people are playing via RAW.

Swooping FMC's cant charge or be charged.
Grounded FMC's can be charge in the following assault phase.

Nothing to confirm in grounded that a FMC loses Swooping.

wt..GW..another unclear rule to add to the list.
Again, as stated above, i doubt this is RAI and will probably be FAQ'd in the near future.

RAW it's still hard to hit.
RAI i was in the normal to hit camp, but some of the arguments on the other side really seemed to explain why GW decided to make the rule as it is.
Either way the FAQ shouldn't be too far off, lets cross our fingers and hope GW has noticed how debated this rules is.
And if you want to help, drop them an e-mail and ask, they need something to be frequently asked in order to answer it
(Just don't use the answer you get from them, in arguments or you risk getting laughed at.)

I play Daemons, I WILL run Kairos and flying Princes/GDs, and if my opponent grounds my creature, the creature will be on the ground. I'm not going to screw over my opponent on common sense that seems ambiguous to some. Likewise, I'd expect my opponent to do the same for me. Luckily, most armies don't have to worry about this, other than Daemons and Tyranids. But I'll stick with common sense to determine the outcome, even if penalizes me. I play fair, and I wouldn't try to be TFG in this situation.

This has come up against a Daemons player.

Hes playing Kairos and a Bloodthirster, and is playing RAW. so even if i ground them, im still hitting on 6's, wounding on 5/6 depending on what i shoot at it, and then theyre getting a 3+ rerollable invulnerable.


Karl

K3 wrote:This has come up against a Daemons player.

Hes playing Kairos and a Bloodthirster, and is playing RAW. so even if i ground them, im still hitting on 6's, wounding on 5/6 depending on what i shoot at it, and then theyre getting a 3+ rerollable invulnerable.


Karl

I hope you also get to force a new Grounded test for every unit that manages to hit the FMC.

Silly daemons, bouncing up and down...

From an RAI perspective, they might be able to keep the hard to hit due to spending a while falling from the sky.
Just my 2 cents.

liturgies of blood wrote:From an RAI perspective, they might be able to keep the hard to hit due to spending a while falling from the sky.
Just my 2 cents.

That and the shooting phase happens simultaneously narrative wise. With that said the multiple grounding tests clearly represent how a monster can crash, and how it can crash HAAAARD.

HoverBoy wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:From an RAI perspective, they might be able to keep the hard to hit due to spending a while falling from the sky.
Just my 2 cents.

That and the shooting phase happens simultaneously narrative wise. With that said the multiple grounding tests clearly represent how a monster can crash, and how it can crash HAAAARD.

If the shooting phase happens simultaneously then to me it makes logical sense that only one Grounded test should be made per shooting phase.
The rule is soo open to missinterpretation.
I would suggest everyone start beating on GW to help get this FAQ'd

Email address for GW FAQ support is - gamesfaq@games-workshop.co.uk

Do it everyone!

As its simultaeous you should be able to force as many tests as units firing, but only fail once.

L0rdF1end wrote:Email address for GW FAQ support is - gamesfaq@games-workshop.co.uk

Do it everyone!

Oh i did that a long time ago, that's why i suggested it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flinty wrote:As its simultaeous you should be able to force as many tests as units firing, but only fail once.

Narrative=|Rules.
The reason a monster retains hard to hit isn't narrative and neither is the reason it takes more than one grounding test, both hinge on it still swooping.

phantommaster wrote:

Brometheus wrote:Stand by for brutal arguments

/popcorn

^^ As he well knows, this has been much debated before. Basically RAW: Yes, but RAI: probably not.

No there is no RAW basis for it.
I have asked countless times for a page reference but none has been provided.

RAW - it is grounded
RAI - it is grounded.

Testify wrote:

phantommaster wrote:

Brometheus wrote:Stand by for brutal arguments

/popcorn

^^ As he well knows, this has been much debated before. Basically RAW: Yes, but RAI: probably not.

No there is no RAW basis for it.
I have asked countless times for a page reference but none has been provided.

RAW - it is grounded
RAI - it is grounded.

100% correct.

There is no rule that says "Grounded" overrides "Swooping".
Grounded overrides some of Swooping, but not all of it.

I know it was in 5th and it dealt with vehicles but this seems to be a similar argument...

If a Vehicle moves More than 6" it requires a 6 to hit in CC.
Vehicle charged by a squad...
IC with INIT 6 hits the vehicle, and immobilizes it....
the squad now will all auto-hit at INIT 4.

While not 100% the same it is very similar argument, and using that logic...

It seems that as soon as a flyer is Grounded it is Grounded and not Swooping anymore...

just my thoughts...