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Hey guys, this is the second post i've done about playing against the Space Marines with my green skins and losing pretty badly. Lately, i've lost every time i play against my brother. The issue is, he's specifically tailored his army to fight my Orks. We play Annihilation matches. Here are a few tactics / methods he uses to give my orks a run for their money regularly.

- Fields as many missile launchers or heavy bolters and plasma cannons as he can, to ensure maximum anti-infantry firepower.
-Uses his terminators as surprise troops that attack from the rear, closing my guys in like a set of blue jaws.
-Uses a Chaplain with a power maul to smack my nobz around, usually attached to an assault marine squad or to the terminators.


Here are a few things that work in MY favor:

-His captain is apparently physically incapable of killing my warboss or his nob squad.
-My warbiker nobz never die until the end of the match thanks to mobility, cover and armor.
-I can field a lot more numbers than he can, not just because of the rules, but because i have about 100 ork boyz i can launch at him any time.
-I have two trukks and a battlewagon, a lot more transports than he has.
-I have a lot more fast attack than he does.

I've tried army builds of all sorts to try and cave him in, but nothing seems to work. I tried fielding just tons of Orks in a horde to crash into him, fielding 5 squads of 15 ork boyz at once, two of them being all shootas.
I've tried a Speed Freekz army, smashing into him with deffkoptas and warbikes and boyz in trukkz.
I've tried a shoota army, fielding tonz of dakka, including a battle wagon with a killkannon.
Kan wall was the least effective i tried. His devastator squad turned my killakanz and deff dreads into pulp rather quickly.

Here's everything i have at my disposal:
Hq:
1 ghazghkull
1 Warboss
1 warboss on a bike
1 Big mek with a KFF

Elite: 26 nobz, one painboy.
10 lootas
5 nobz on warbikes.

Troop:
100 ork boyz (40 have shootas)
10 gretchin w/ runtherd.
2 trukks.

Fast Attack:
6 deffkoptas

Heavy Support:
A battle Wagon
2 zzap gunz.
1 kannon.
3 killa kanz
1 deff dread.

Here's what he's got.

Hq:
Marneus Calgar and his honor guard.
a captain
Tigirius
a chaplain
a chapter master
Lysander

Elite:
5 Sternguard
5 Vanguard (without jump packs)
5 Terminators
1 dreadnought
1 venerable dreadnought

Troop:
60 tactical marines, with lots of extra bits for fun.

Fast attack:
a skimmer
5 assault marines.

Heavy Support:
A razorback
A rhino transport
A land raider
full devastator squad.

obviously we don't use this all at once. but that's what i've got. he likes to field a lot of tactical marines with very few, but effective, elite shock units. so, the issue for me tends to be keeping alive before getting up close and personal with him OR me just not being able to deal with all the tactical marines firing at me or swinging at me in close combat.
I borrowed a few extra kanz from some friends one time to try and carve him open, but unfortunately all his missile launchers, plasma cannons and lascannons seem to just wipe them out in two turns. I had a total of 6 killa kans and a deff dread charging at him, and in a single turn, he pulped them with a mix of that heavy fire and a sudden punch in the armor from some terminators in power fists.

So, that's my situation. Anyone got any ideas for me? Please help!

Hello,

A few general mandates for orks......

-keep to one speed (so that you hit the enemy lines all at once)
-target saturation (e.g. people generallly say that 5 trukks as a minimum if your running them)

And other things.....

Painboy on bike would be useful
Lootas in two sets of 5 (warbosses make nobz troops so you shouls be alright for elite slots)
ghaz is not worth his points any more...... use him as a warboss in mega armour, they are now king
Artilary is pretty good this edition (although I don't light Zzap much)
Run koptas in units of one as suicide rokkits (gd idea in this edition to always outflank,not worth scouting anymore)

Recommended next purchases....

Dakkajet - brilliant model to make, paint, and amazing on the field (he hasn't got skyfire........ until it's FAQ'ed)
Looted wagon with boom gun - Fun to make (any tank with big gun with bitz you have spare and battle damage, take a screw driver to it), very unreliable but fun and if it hits can take out a whole unit of marines (when their not in cover)

One more thing.....

I have a mate that tailors against orks (as a result of us starting together), I on the other hand don't as I apporach lists in a general - all comers way. Needless to say I lose to him all the time so I wouldn't worry to much

I think tailoring an army to tool on a friend is super lame. Congratulate your brother for breaking the game and getting validation from toy soldiers then ask if he got it out of his system. If he still insists on cheesing you every time, you can either: make a house rule, play a scenario with conditions in your favor, start a new army tailored against his and flip a coin at the start of each match to choose between them, or just say "you win" whenever he fields that list until he gets the picture.

The models are too expensive to get into an army list war with a friend.

Throw Ork Roks at his army and squish them to death literally~
anyways,
spread out your army and prioritize his blast weapons first?
I am not sure if that works or not but template weapons are generally deadly to horde armies I think.

And stay behind cover most of the time I think.

So here's the deal: space marines are versatile sons of guns, and they're adaptable to fight other armies thanks to upgrades.

But they're not unbeatable if you play with a few of your pelt shenanigans. Nobz and those zap guns will be key. I'd recommend the killcannon and any other ap2/3 you can stuff into your army. Recall that the zaps make the gretchins manning it T7, and behind an aegis orky fort, they can be save 4+ or even 2+. Those termies can go ahead and suck on that. He likes to bring in terminators behind you? Put an orky fort in your backfield with the zap guns and loots in it, with the grot crew in front. You can fill your wagon with shoota boyz and the mek, use them as a fast attack force to support your anvil. I've found success with a fort covered by nobz to stop anyone coming to melée it, and a heavy motorized attack force. Use the kilcannon to attack his most expensive armor 3 unit, devastators if you can.

If you've got loots, I'm assuming you've got Burma bits too. Burma boyz in a trukk are just fiends, particularly those handy ap3 power weapons they can have. Just a couple alternatives to whining and moaning until he changes his list. That's not a terribly orky strategy.

If he's using Ultramarines, just tell him anything he does is acting against the Codex Astartes. He'll freeze up, mumble a liturgy of battle, scan the Codex, and go on a 100 year Penitence Crusade. That should fix your problem.

Your war boss would be better off not being inside of your nobs squad. They're plenty Lilly without his help

While a good start, not enough info I'm afraid.

1) What exactly is his terminator strategy? Are those shooty terminators or assault terminators? What are they armed with?
2) From my experience nobz turn assault marines+chaplain into blue confetti, and he only has five of them. I wonder what exactly his strategy is?
3) Maybe post examples of the lists you tried? From your vague descriptions, I really can't tell whether your army is flawed or you're just having problems with tactics. In [spoiler] tags please
4) You collection seems to be allowing much more viable armies than his does. Is he borrowing/proxying models, too? Maybe just post the last army he fielded?
5) I'd also give the marine codex a good read, I have the feeling he is pulling some shenanigans.

Play him with:

warboss on bike.(attack squig, klaw, bosspole.)

10 grots+runtherd
nob bikers(I assume there is a painboy, boss pole, hopefully klaws and banner.)
Maybe some boys as extra scoring units but probably not.

1 deff kopta with rocket
5 deff koptas with rockets(warboss goes with them )

10 lootas

kannon+zzap guns, a bunch of crew and ammo runts.

The point is this is pretty strong for the points. Marines struggle the lower points cost, whereas at higher points orks need to have lists that work well together.
Shooty with a couple of tactical mobile units. Try to out shoot him at range, whilst the jetbikers and bikers hit just one flank, this should limit how much of his army can hit you back.

At what pts you play?
Here is your problem as I see it:
He does not play anti-ork army, he has just tailored his list to do better against hordes... But still, he doesn't have models as I see it to make too competitive list...
Your problem lies in general characteristics of space marines and orks, where while SM are general army where every unit has wide variety of roles and therefor can work fine even if you don't build your list fully competitive, orks are different...
Ork army will be biggest trash if you don't specialise and work your way around single idea, and here is where you have failed...

My first criticism lies in a fact of different mobility... As someone before already said, this is a ba thing for orks, for their power lies in numbers... Therefor, if you bring in front some boyz or so with wagons and trukks, you give your opponent chance to deal with your army in two waves, therefor losing your sinergy... Imo, you must choose; mech or footy...

Next, you again have mixed two different types of lists, with trukks and wagons... Imo, trukks in 6th are not viable anymore (but that is a discusion for itself) but anyways you need to spam them to work... Battlewagons again are good, but one wagon can be stopped... 3 not so easy...
Now, if you don't want to buy more things, i say field 90 boyz on foot, 2x5 lootas (and you can convert some boyz into 5 more lootas and go 3x5), add 2x2 tl rokkit koptas... With res pts, take one squad of nobz... And I don't see how he can beat you that easy every time...
Another tip:
If you have strugle with him, ask him to lower the pts cap... Orks excel on low pts games (take 90 boyz and warboss, which is cca 750pts, and add lootas in for anothet 150, plus one kopta squad and see him struggle with his 1000 pts marines against it)...

MFletch wrote:Play him with:

warboss on bike.(attack squig, klaw, bosspole.)

10 grots+runtherd
nob bikers(I assume there is a painboy, boss pole, hopefully klaws and banner.)
Maybe some boys as extra scoring units but probably not.

1 deff kopta with rocket
5 deff koptas with rockets(warboss goes with them )

10 lootas

kannon+zzap guns, a bunch of crew and ammo runts.

The point is this is pretty strong for the points. Marines struggle the lower points cost, whereas at higher points orks need to have lists that work well together.
Shooty with a couple of tactical mobile units. Try to out shoot him at range, whilst the jetbikers and bikers hit just one flank, this should limit how much of his army can hit you back.

''


Id change the koptas from rokkits, to the stock TL big shootas. The amount of bullets this unit pisses out is incredible, and not only do they go with the DAKKAgun on the bike perfectly, they also are perfect against an army that doesnt use transports. So drop the rokkits, and with the points you save, give 1 of the koptas a buzzsaw for that extra punch. Any transports that can go down from STR5 will, very easily, and anything tougher will go down to either the buzzsaw or the bosses PK, either way, your covered there. And that unit right there is a tough sumbitch to go down in most assaults.

I run that unit often in 6th, and its fast and brutal.



As to the OP
I also suggest you brush up on your SM codex as well. If something sounds crazy, it probably is, and ask your brother to show you the codex ruling on it, thats not something insulting, at least it shouldnt be anyways. Thats how you learn. I agree with Jidmah on that one, he is probably pulling something shady. Terminators go down like butter against boyz, one unit of boyz SHOULD down them, if not, another unit of boyz WILL down them, even with Lysander or the like in there. And Chaplains, I love/hate chaplains. They REALLY bring out the FU in a unit with the unit wide rerolls they get, so they can really bring the pain with that. But it makes it much sweeter when you kill them. So think smart on who you want assaulting that unit.