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1: Can barrage weapons (mounted on vehicles) and specifically basilisk move 6" and fire its main gun?
It may be silly but the normal answer by all means is yes cause as it says on pg 71 moving and shooting with vehicles,
a vehicle can move at combat speed and fire one weapon at full BS and all other as snap shots. As i recall on 5th a vehicle couldnt move and fire a barrage weapon.

2: Pg 34 barrage, it says that "barrage weapons can fire indirectly. this means they can fire at a target that they do not have line of sight to and/ or a target
that is within minimum range". this means that for example basilisk can fire above 36 ONLY? or it can fire bellow 36 as well?

1. They can move 6 and fire.

2. They can fire directly (I.e. line of sight) under 36". There's no limitations on LoS firing with barrage. They just can fire indirectly as long as its over the minimum.

Thanks, that is what i believed anyways.

Sothas wrote:2. They can fire directly (I.e. line of sight) under 36". There's no limitations on LoS firing with barrage. They just can fire indirectly as long as its over the minimum.

Actually, that may not be the case, depending on your definition of "within".

"Barrage weapons can fire indirectly...at a target that they do not have line of sight to and/or a target that is within the weapon's minimum range." (RB p34)

I've seen two interpretations:
1. That the minimum range is ignored when firing indirectly because "within" in this context means "equal to or less than" (i.e. you can fire at targets equal to or less than your normal range). This is sort of backed up on p4, but 6th edition has no explicit definition of "within", unlike 5th.
2. That the minimum range is NOT ignored because "within" in this context means "bounded by" (i.e. "within" range means that the target must be between the minimum and maximum range).

In either case, I see no rule to suggest that firing directly removes the minimum range. Then again, there are no rules in the rulebook that define the minimum range, except when firing indirectly...

Yeah, this one needs a FAQ.

This one has come up for me as well. the text reads and/or within the min range, which i cant really argue that something like a basilisk then has any true min range, only that you sacrifice the -bs for not having los or it being too close.

Why then all barrage weapons on the appendix on rulebook have range such as 36-....."?
Why they are not 0-..."?

The Barrage weapons are more accurate (you get the BS reduction to scatter) at minimum range and above.

Below minimum range it is something akin to shooting pistols straight up in the sky, but this time hoping the shells come down on that Ork mob making a ruckus right in front of your Bassie.

...or something.

Yeah oddly enough min ranges are not discussed anywhere i find in the rules except reguarding barrage and indirect fire where you can fire within the min range (the "and/or within min range" part makes me believe you can fire inside min range).

Right now there might as well be no min range and those that can only indirect fire just run a greater risk at scattering on their own unit.

My interpretation is that if you fire at a target within the minimum distance you treat the shot as if it were out of LOS (no reduction to scatter from BS)

I can agree with that, it just doesn't really give any true disadvantage to units that can only indirect fire (only that they may accidentally hit their own, which is the downside to any blast template)

This is truly a question worth the answers..
Actually we can't figure out what's the true meaning of this rule.
I personally find it stupid for a vehicle to fire indirect bellow let's say 36"-...."
Why would all that kind of vehicles in the chart have this instead of 0"-....."?

This edition RAW right now (unless FAQ'd) is this:

If the Basilisk fires directly: requires line of sight, subtract BS, 36" - 240"
If the Basilisk fires indirectly: does not require line of sight, 36" 240"

Guns with a minimum can only shoot the minimum unless specified otherwise, which in this case, it is not.

But it does specifiy that barrage weapons can fire and/or within min range (under special rules barrage), meaning it does have the option (as i interpret this rule) to fire under 36" in the case of the basilisk.

This is a huge change to IG leafblower type lists where the Manticore was utilized to cover anything inside 24" while barrage tanks were used outside of it to kill any troops incoming. now an artillery battery is the only thing you need (or simply two batteries of them)

@Emp. - But there is a specific allowance as Paitryn pointed out. The indirect BArrage rule does now allow you to fire inside your minimum range, albeit you don't get to benefit from your BS when scattering.

avedominusnox wrote:Why then all barrage weapons on the appendix on rulebook have range such as 36-....."?
Why they are not 0-..."?

The minimum range is the minimum distance away from the barrage that you can use your BS to reduce the scatter. They still have a minimum distance, but instead of that meaning they can't fire at all at something closer than that it just means they are less accurate at that distance. By removing this minimum distance, which would be what you are doing by listing them all as "0-", how would you know when the enemy was too close?

Warbrucey wrote:The Barrage weapons are more accurate (you get the BS reduction to scatter) at minimum range and above.

Below minimum range it is something akin to shooting pistols straight up in the sky, but this time hoping the shells come down on that Ork mob making a ruckus right in front of your Bassie.

...or something.

This is no longer true. The barrage type explicitly says that barrage weapons now always scatter the full 2D6 unless a hit is rolled (regardless of LOS). There is also nothing in the rules that would allow a vehicle with barrage to direct fire this edition.

[EDIT] I should say: there is nothing in the rules that explicitly allows a barrage weapon to direct fire. The rules do say "can fire indirectly", implying there is another mode of fire but there is nothing that defines the difference. There are no rules that would allow the minimum range to be waived and everything would still be resolved from the center of the blast marker and cause pinning per pg 34 because those are exceptions to how barrage weapons fire in regards to blast weapons and not an effect of firing indirectly as in 5th.

pg 34 first bullet point of barrage says:

"Barrage weapons can fire indirectly. This means they can fire at a target that they do not have line of sight to AND/OR a target that is within the weapon's minimum range (if it has one). "

the fact that it includes and/or means we have the option . Trust me when i say i want indirect fire weapons to fire between 36"-240" since i play orks and this sucks for me hardcore, but the way the rules read as of now, you have the option to shoot inside your min range with the only downside of scattering onto yourself.

Before the first bullet point: "...use the rules for Blast & Large Blast weapons - - with the following exceptions:"

Firing indirectly is an exception. Normally Blast weapons cannot do so, so the Barrage rules explain how it is done.

Firing at a target in LOS is not an exception, there you follow the normal Blast rules.

The second and third bullet points are both exceptions that are always in effect, but the first only comes in play when the target is below minimum range and/or out of LOS.

PanzerLeader wrote:

Warbrucey wrote:The Barrage weapons are more accurate (you get the BS reduction to scatter) at minimum range and above.

Below minimum range it is something akin to shooting pistols straight up in the sky, but this time hoping the shells come down on that Ork mob making a ruckus right in front of your Bassie.

...or something.

This is no longer true. The barrage type explicitly says that barrage weapons now always scatter the full 2D6 unless a hit is rolled (regardless of LOS). There is also nothing in the rules that would allow a vehicle with barrage to direct fire this edition.

[EDIT] I should say: there is nothing in the rules that explicitly allows a barrage weapon to direct fire. The rules do say "can fire indirectly", implying there is another mode of fire but there is nothing that defines the difference. There are no rules that would allow the minimum range to be waived and everything would still be resolved from the center of the blast marker and cause pinning per pg 34 because those are exceptions to how barrage weapons fire in regards to blast weapons and not an effect of firing indirectly as in 5th.

This is not correct. Blast Weapons always fire directly. Barrage weapons act like Blast Weapons that can target a unit that it cannot see, which is defined as firing indirectly. If a Barrage weapon is firing at a model it can see and is within the weapons range it is treated exactly like a Blast weapon, which subtracts the BS from the scatter, or firing directly.

Unless it is within its minimum range, when it can ONLY fire indirectly

Yes Nos, this is true. If a Barrage weapon fires at a target it cannot see or is closer than the minimum distance of the weapon it is fired indirectly. Other than that it is fired directly.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Unless it is within its minimum range, when it can ONLY fire indirectly

some weapons state they can only fire indirectly as part of their special rules.

Captain Antivas wrote:Yes Nos, this is true. If a Barrage weapon fires at a target it cannot see or is closer than the minimum distance of the weapon it is fired indirectly. Other than that it is fired directly.

Which is stupid. Means a basilisk that can see a vehicle 37" away has to fire directly and cannot fire barrage to get side armor or pinning (if it should target infantry).

don_mondo wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:Yes Nos, this is true. If a Barrage weapon fires at a target it cannot see or is closer than the minimum distance of the weapon it is fired indirectly. Other than that it is fired directly.

Which is stupid. Means a basilisk that can see a vehicle 37" away has to fire directly and cannot fire barrage to get side armor or pinning (if it should target infantry).

It would still hit the side armour with a direct shot.
This first bullet point covers indirect shooting, the other points cover the other benifits.
Hitting the side armour is not related to firing indirectly, but a benifit of being a barrage weapon.

Somehow that does not convince me that firing the weapon directly will allow it to cause pinning or attempt to penetrate against side armor. And I doubt even more whether it would convince my opponents.
Bluntly, they wrote the barrage rules (IMO) very poorly.

Here you go.

As is written in the rules for barrage. (paraphrased)

Use the rules for blast with the following exceptions: Pg 34

You do not need line of sight. You can fire within your minimum range. Both circumstances always remove your BS subtraction.

Always determine direction of fire and wounds from center of blast marker.

Always hits side armor of vehicles.

Always causes pinning.

Follow the rules for multiple barrage. (this is the only one that doesn't use the word always)

Pg 100

Barrage weapons always hit the highest level that is under the hole in the center of the blast marker.

That's it. simple. I don't see what is poorly written about this. It seems very plain to me.

If looked upon without 5th edition preconceptions.

By the way, a good rule to follow here is to cite page sources. It helps others in determining the merit of your post.