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Ok, I haven't yet faced this army, but someone in my store is talking about using it, and I can see it becoming popular in the future.
For 1500pts, they want 2 big meks with KFFs, and then as many shoota boys as possible, with as many rokkits as possible. Basically, the rokkits glance anything to death and due to the masses of firepower anything else is destroyed either when the orks decide or when they choose to shoot the orks. How can this list be beaten?

take your DE shoot them they are good but if taken in blobs you take on orks with MSU so that most of their firepower is wasted on one raider for example.

There are a few things this kind of list will fall to. One is large templates - take some Basilisks, Leman Russes, Whirlwinds, anything of the sort but either deploy out of LOS or start them in reserve. That way you're going to get some shots off before they're "glanced to death".

Another two examples that spring to mind are, unfortunately, other specialised lists - and they are Necron flyerspam (which the rokkits just plain won't be able to keep up with) and DeathCompany'orama, which will be able to match the insane damage output of that list. You'd take losses in the first couple of turns before overwhelming them in assault.

Drop Pods would also work well, as you're guaranteed being able to get a round of shooting in as you deploy. For that I'd take an awful lot of shooty units like Sternguard and AC/HF armed Tactical Termies.

Thanks for the replies, it all sounds well and good, but the problem is that I've only got certain models I can use and a limited budget. I've pretty much got enough for most DE stuff and the average tau stuff, how could this be used to beat the list? Hammerhead large blasts come to mind as useful, but it wouldn't last a turn out there with that many rokkits.

Just throw some Razorwings/VoidRavens implosion missles and neurotoxin should wound a lot of Orks...

then you have splinter cannons, liqufiers, reavers with clustertrops.
I think spamming venoms against it might not be a bad idea...
not sure though...
6 venoms = 72 shots, 48 hits,24 wounds, 16 dead Orks on average with 5+ cover save.

get at an angle where you can take the Big Mek out with Dark Lances I guess...

p_gray99 wrote:Thanks for the replies, it all sounds well and good, but the problem is that I've only got certain models I can use and a limited budget. I've pretty much got enough for most DE stuff and the average tau stuff, how could this be used to beat the list? Hammerhead large blasts come to mind as useful, but it wouldn't last a turn out there with that many rokkits.

Orks can have a max of three rokkits in a boyz mob. So when they shoot them at a vehicle they have 27 other guys doing nothing. Not very efficient. Not to mention they only hit on 5+ and have a 24" max range.

nightshield DE pretty much cant be touched by that list.

CT GAMER wrote:

p_gray99 wrote:Thanks for the replies, it all sounds well and good, but the problem is that I've only got certain models I can use and a limited budget. I've pretty much got enough for most DE stuff and the average tau stuff, how could this be used to beat the list? Hammerhead large blasts come to mind as useful, but it wouldn't last a turn out there with that many rokkits.

Orks can have a max of three rokkits in a boyz mob. So when they shoot them at a vehicle they have 27 other guys doing nothing. Not very efficient. Not to mention they only hit on 5+ and have a 24" max range.

True, but they've got 6 squads with 3 rokkits each, they'll probably have enough firepower for most stuff...

p_gray99 wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

p_gray99 wrote:Thanks for the replies, it all sounds well and good, but the problem is that I've only got certain models I can use and a limited budget. I've pretty much got enough for most DE stuff and the average tau stuff, how could this be used to beat the list? Hammerhead large blasts come to mind as useful, but it wouldn't last a turn out there with that many rokkits.

Orks can have a max of three rokkits in a boyz mob. So when they shoot them at a vehicle they have 27 other guys doing nothing. Not very efficient. Not to mention they only hit on 5+ and have a 24" max range.

True, but they've got 6 squads with 3 rokkits each, they'll probably have enough firepower for most stuff...

they hit on 5+. 1/3 chance.
So 6 squads with 3 rokkits, 6x3=18. Now 1 in 3 will statistically hit- so 6 rokkits will hit. so one rokkit each mob. So each mob is a 30 guys aiming one rokkit. Maybe you'll get more hits if your lucky.
6 rokkits vs AV12- well you need a 4 to glance, so half of them will end up as a result. So roughly 1 glance 2 pen's on AV12 per turn.
Rough mathhammer is rough but you get the gist of it

Jihallah wrote:

p_gray99 wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

p_gray99 wrote:Thanks for the replies, it all sounds well and good, but the problem is that I've only got certain models I can use and a limited budget. I've pretty much got enough for most DE stuff and the average tau stuff, how could this be used to beat the list? Hammerhead large blasts come to mind as useful, but it wouldn't last a turn out there with that many rokkits.

Orks can have a max of three rokkits in a boyz mob. So when they shoot them at a vehicle they have 27 other guys doing nothing. Not very efficient. Not to mention they only hit on 5+ and have a 24" max range.

True, but they've got 6 squads with 3 rokkits each, they'll probably have enough firepower for most stuff...

they hit on 5+. 1/3 chance.
So 6 squads with 3 rokkits, 6x3=18. Now 1 in 3 will statistically hit- so 6 rokkits will hit. so one rokkit each mob. So each mob is a 30 guys aiming one rokkit. Maybe you'll get more hits if your lucky.
6 rokkits vs AV12- well you need a 4 to glance, so half of them will end up as a result. So roughly 1 glance 2 pen's on AV12 per turn.
Rough mathhammer is rough but you get the gist of it

That's nice but he is then using like 174 orks that are just standing there while the rokkits do their thing. It's really not a good use of time, lootas are better, and especially against lighter tanks, they put out MORE firepower that is just a fraction weaker. Rokkits killing marines is cool, but not worth it.

Ok, that makes me feel far better about the list. All I need is plenty of venoms and disintegrator-ravagers and then get rid of their cover somehow. Sounds simple enough.

p_gray99 wrote:...and then get rid of their cover somehow. Sounds simple enough.

Yes, yes it is. Two solutions for this - placed shots to take out the Big Meks (though LOS! will be a pain), or lots of template weapons.

From my experience this sort of ork list no longer works, I would not feel threatened. If anything I would more fear big shootas from a DE perspective.

Orks are slow and rarely hit, then they die quickly enough if you start firing everything.(venom spam anyone)

Target choice is key. There are lots of things to consider: units out of range of the kff are easy pickings, getting units to lose their fearlessness is very useful, killing models as to stop a mob from assaulting is important.
Following that also knowing when you can assault and how many units to push into assault. Orks not getting furious charge and not getting extra attacks is pretty major.

So shoot a squad with a big mek until it's down to about 5 guys, then assault with some expendable stuff and kill the mek? That'll leave said squad out in the open, but they'll then waste a fifth of their shooting min. to take it out. Repeat this so that they don't have any cover, then just shoot them to death? Should work.

Three Razorwing Jetfighters, all with dissy cannons, night shields, flickerfields, and splinter cannons.

You'll chip away at him with missiles, and at best he can try to attack you from 18" away.

Round out with the usual dark eldar goodies.

Just spamming one or two "good" units does not a functional army make.

Warboss Gutrip wrote:Three Razorwing Jetfighters, all with dissy cannons, night shields, flickerfields, and splinter cannons.

You'll chip away at him with missiles, and at best he can try to attack you from 18" away.

Round out with the usual dark eldar goodies.

Just spamming one or two "good" units does not a functional army make.

Sounds good enough to me. So 3 razorwings, plenty o' venoms, and some wyches for the remaining few orks? Sounds good to me, given that that many orks will have no option but to sit close together.

many many many templates.

Fortress.
Only the nob can do anything to it, and you've got 4 bunkers, and 4 battlements.
That's 8 units that can't be assaulted.
Use the indirect to snip mek/nob, and the 4 heavy bolters and splinter cannons to mow through the troops.

-Matt

for everyone saying the guys in the mobs have to be rokkits, no. an elite choice (although a mildly bad one) for orks is a unit of just rokkit launchas. or lootas are also really good at dealing with any vehicle short of landraiders and russes.

But yeah, throw down some pie plates against his orks, or flame templates. All you need to do is stay out of 24" range of rokkit squads and 18 inches away from shoota boys, and you can watch how your friend fails a ton of his 5+ cover saves.
If you play imperial guard, russes are the way to go, I would run the ones with a 20 shot gatling cannon and hellions to deal with the cover save they are no longer getting

if you have tau you should look into getting a group of crisis suits with twin linked flamers the cover will be negated and if you drop them in turn 2 close enough you could do some serious damage

Crisis suits with flamers, yeah... no. TL flamers are good and all, and it's only 35 points-ish per crisis, but it's tau. They simply don't go that close.

Templates do not really work against orks, at that point you are in cc range, orks will gladly lose a few orks if you are willing to give them the charge next turn.

HawaiiMatt wrote:Fortress.
Only the nob can do anything to it, and you've got 4 bunkers, and 4 battlements.
That's 8 units that can't be assaulted.
Use the indirect to snip mek/nob, and the 4 heavy bolters and splinter cannons to mow through the troops.

-Matt

That is just bad manners, essentially spamming av14 against an army that can only tickle it. I would watch out for tankbustas, mainly as their bombs are excellent in cc against buildings, if you let them get into base to base contact you deserve what you get.

Since you have Tau, I would say a Crisis Suit HQ with the Airburst, a Squad of Fire Warriors, and a Squad of Pathfinders.


My Tau played against an Ork Killa Kan list over the weekend, my mate had two KFFs. Two Markerlights can turn that 5+ into nothing. Have the Commander drop the Large Blast ontop of the orks and since they do not have cover or armor saves from it.....

The biggest advantage to the orks is that they can camp all the objectives. At that point range having 6 troops to claim all the objectives will win a lot of games. Plus the orks are almost guaranteed to get first blood and linebreaker. .

Then with hiding in ruins, behind walls, night fighting or a lucky warlord trait of stealth and you could be looking at orks with a 3+ cover save.

you want to be able to put a lot of fire down range and take any gun that ignores cover. Then do whatever you need to to claim the 4 pt objective and the two 3 pt objectives. Which depending on where they are placed will most likely favor a ork victory.

TIme will be on your side if you can keep out of assault range, but its harder than you think to take out 180 ork boys. Just focus fire on a unit with the mek and shoot it til its gone. Then go after the other mek unit.