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In the latest issue of Newsweek, David Frum wrote an articled called America The Anxious trying to determine why voters and Americans are feeling so anxious right now. it is filled with a lot of interesting stats, and is a nice accompaniment to an earlier NewsWeek piece called Generation:Bust.
Any way, Mr. Frum had this to say about the choice in this year's election....
In this election year, both presidential candidates are competing to offer a response to the anxious mood. President Obama urges Americans to put their trust in more and bigger government. In an important speech in Kansas last year, the president defined his vision for the American middle class: more government employment, more government contracting to stabilize employment in the private sector, and higher taxes on wealthier Americans to pay for it all.
Challenger Mitt Romney has not been so explicit, but his message is equally clear: don't fight anxiety- embrace it. Medicare will become a voucher for Americans under 55. Medicaid and other socila programs will radically shrink. Restrictions on the financial industry will be rolled back. Even less will be guarnateed than today- in the hope of unleashing pent-up dynamism
I though t this was a pretty clear summing up of the two opposing philosophies up for debate in this election. What are your thoughts?
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Characterizing President Obama as someone who is in favor of "Big Government" is just ridiculous. The number of people employed in the public sector is down substantially since he came into office, and he is, at best, trying to bring that level back up to where it was in 2008. At best.
I'm still not too sure what Romney stands for except that he wants to be president, so it's difficult to compare the two.
There are no two opposing philosophies, these are two people who largely agree and we have all exaggerated the level of disagreement and philosophical difference so that we can all feel like there is a legitimate choice to be made. There isn't and we're arguing over small statistical differences. Or we're arguing about how a lot of the country doesn't like having a black guy be president.
Fine, you believe in the status quo. And gay marriage.
I'm just sad that I've seen the Democrats pushed far to the right in the last twenty years. They've lost every economic fight, have given up education as an issue, are afraid to defend any of the Great Society, and are mostly peddlers of a nicer free trade.
TheHammer wrote:How much of that is Romney's position and not just him reflecting the completely insane GOP?
I'm no Democrat, they don't really believe in anything, but boy do the Republicans believe all the worst things.
They believe in ideas.
They just put their tails between their legs and hide in the corner at the first sign of resistance.
Democrats as a whole don't have a back bone. They just shut up and let republicans run hog wild on the country. Only time Democrats really get to do something is when republicans fahk up beyond all repair.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 14:57:21
Manchu: only because it makes my skin itch. It's "brakes"
Manchu wrote:
TheHammer wrote:I'm no Democrat, they don't really believe in anything
Sure we do. That's a silly thing to say.
To quote Andy Sorkin, "If liberals are so fething smart how come they lose so goddamned always?"
Democrats believe in plenty of things, and at least they have focus. We're talking about a political party here not the Occupy movement.
Totally worth mentioning anytime politics is around:
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Hmm, I dunno seems like the Democrats just passed health care reform legislation against all of the might and bluster that Republicans could manage to kick up.
Seems to me that many Americans are too cowardly to pick a side. When you pick a side, you end up losing sometimes. It's the people who don't pick a side in politics that don't believe in anything. Well, except for trying too look wise by complaining about both sides.
Yes, the Democrats managed to pass the healthcare plan the Republicans put forward in the 90s. Good job. Way to show conviction and beliefs.
I do have a side. I am for many things. It's just that the things I'm for are never even discussed or talked about so what's the point? Don't get me wrong, I'll hold my nose and vote for Obama again because I'm not an donkey-cave.
TheHammer wrote:Yes, the Democrats managed to pass the healthcare plan the Republicans put forward in the 90s. Good job. Way to show conviction and beliefs.
I do have a side. I am for many things. It's just that the things I'm for are never even discussed or talked about so what's the point? Don't get me wrong, I'll hold my nose and vote for Obama again because I'm not an donkey-cave.
@Jihadin- The sentiment above is why Liberals lose all the time. You can;t have two guys that are the smartest guy in the room. Now try to make a party of the smartest guy in the room. Eventually, they all just fall to bickering and circular firing squads and obsessing about creating lines instead of getting crap done that is liberal.
As for Mr. Frum's bit of writing. It really made the choice stand out starkly for me and cut through a lot of the rhetoric. Since when did radical nihilism become a good basis for policy?
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It's not about being the smartest guy in the room as much as my wondering why neither party is even seriously talking about the following:
Free trade and its implications
The destruction of unions
The destruction of our environment
Cyclical inequality and poverty
The destructive nature of the profit motive in healthcare and education
And many other issues. Those are all things they mostly agree on, but I would consider to be the truly important issues that need to be addressed.
Like I said, I'll vote for Obama. I'm not an donkey-cave. I just wish we had real choices instead of choosing between two guys who mostly agree but having one at least acknowledge the human toll of modern society.
But, hey, it's better and cooler to try to play the "sensible moderate adult" who will continuously get pulled to the right and be complicit in all their bs.
Speaking as a outsider, my view of the US healthcare issue is that the Democrats realised they would never get a system similar to the rest of the developed world through Congress, so they went for a flawed compromise.
@Jihadin- The sentiment above is why Liberals lose all the time. You can;t have two guys that are the smartest guy in the room. Now try to make a party of the smartest guy in the room. Eventually, they all just fall to bickering and circular firing squads and obsessing about creating lines instead of getting crap done that is liberal.
WTH
Why would you drag me into this Easy?
Whats your point for me?
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@Jihadin- The sentiment above is why Liberals lose all the time. You can;t have two guys that are the smartest guy in the room. Now try to make a party of the smartest guy in the room. Eventually, they all just fall to bickering and circular firing squads and obsessing about creating lines instead of getting crap done that is liberal.
WTH
Why would you drag me into this Easy?
Whats your point for me?
Sorry, it was Austin T. I saw a guy in uniform int he Avatar and thought it was yours.
However, you updated yours a few weeks ago. My mistake.
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TheHammer wrote:How much of that is Romney's position and not just him reflecting the completely insane GOP?
I'm no Democrat, they don't really believe in anything
Civil liberties, helping the downtrodden, ensuring that the greedy can't destroy what everyone else has...
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
TheHammer wrote:How much of that is Romney's position and not just him reflecting the completely insane GOP?
I'm no Democrat, they don't really believe in anything, but boy do the Republicans believe all the worst things.
I don't agree. I think the party has mostly been co-opted by reactionaries while more moderate Republicans have kinda been beaten down into silence.
I live in a generally wealthy county (highest average income in PA) that used to be described as a "GOP stronghold." At the local/state level, it still is. But it keeps going for the Dems in the Presidential races because the national platforms are about all the wrong things. Republicans here care less about what goes on in people's bedrooms than they do about taxes and government spending. At a local level, that's what government and elections are about, and they vote accordingly. The Tea Party could be an option if they didn't cloak themselves in so much "crazy." These are educated professionals who'd be embarrassed by Bachmann, etc.
If Romney ran as Romney Classic, he'd probably have a good chance here. New Romney, not so much.
The Dems are pretty much a clusterfeth of a party, but at least they don't seek to purge their own in the name of ideological purity to the same degree as the GOP's been doing in recent years. The term "RINO" and the thinking associated with it has done more harm to the GOP brand than all of Bush's bungling.
I greatly respect the Republican establishment for how they play the game - like the Al Davis Raiders. Except if the Raiders, instead of trying to win the Super Bowl, were instead trying to destroy the sport of football forever. OK, so maybe that analogy was suspect.
My point is, they organize as a team and stand together, generally. When they control government, they get bills passed. When they don't, they successfully block most bills they don't like from passing and manage to severely distort the ones that do, with a few notable exceptions. They understand what "agenda" and "party line" means. They truly understand winning at any cost, and pissing on the manger if they don't. It's always an entertaining spectacle even if it makes for lousy government.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
When it comes to local elections I've actually voted for members of the villainous Republican party. Local elections are more about technocrats and minutiae, so voting on competence is more important. Sadly, even in local elections we're starting to candidates for county positions that talk crazy gak about unions, global warming, and a host of other insane national issues.
Speaking of Frum, I don't have any strong feelings about the guy one way or the other, but I thought he wrote an absolutely knockout piece when healthcare reform passed, which you may find here if you're into that sort of thing.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Here is the money shot from the article Ouze linked....
We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.
There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother?
I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.
So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.
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@Jihadin- The sentiment above is why Liberals lose all the time. You can;t have two guys that are the smartest guy in the room. Now try to make a party of the smartest guy in the room. Eventually, they all just fall to bickering and circular firing squads and obsessing about creating lines instead of getting crap done that is liberal.
WTH
Why would you drag me into this Easy?
Whats your point for me?
Sorry, it was Austin T. I saw a guy in uniform int he Avatar and thought it was yours.
However, you updated yours a few weeks ago. My mistake.
And yet still it's a quote from a screen writer, I called him to alert him to your concerns.
Liberals have been on a losing streak for decades, not just in the Democratic party, but in the GOP as well. There was a fantastic liberal Republican candidate that lost the primary in the 1980, effectively running the Rockefeller Republicans out of power until today. They still get elected, don't get me wrong, they just have no power. I should know I'm a liberal Republican, I think they call us RINOs now.
When Bobby Jindal says the Republican Party is getting back to its conservative roots I wonder what party he is taping about.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
I hat eto belabor my point, but I find it hilarious taht people still do that with a straight face while tryin to talk about fiscal responsibility and ultra hardcore conservativeism.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 22:45:01
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote:Isn't he one of those guys who worships Reagan?
I hat eto belabor my point, but I find it hilarious taht people still do that with a straight face while tryin to talk about fiscal responsibility and ultra hardcore conservativeism.
Od waht?
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
