Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've always wondered what those characters on the cover are.



The bearded man on the left is Saladin.
The woman front bottom is Joan d'Arc 2.0.
Mr. Glamorhair Scowlface front center is Achilles.
Brooding in the background is an Anathematic.
On the right are a bunch of Muyibs.

Who is that ALEPH-colored jedi on the left?
I would have thought the Shinobu Kitsune, but it looks nothing like it in both hair and clothing and colors.

I don't know who she is.
To the left of Joan is William Wallace though.

Yeah, after checking out the shoulderpads and sword, it's Wallace, not Saladin.

I guess that really does leave one-for-each-faction if that mysterious Jedi is Yu Jing (and Nomads are ignored).

...but what/who is it?

Could it be the unreleased Neko?
Nevermind, the Neko is a male.
(Male Yu Jing Catgirls might be the new Daktari.)

Nomads are hiding around the back (a couple of moderators) cover.

I think it IS meant to be Shinobu. She does have white hair (speaking as someone who also has it, being stealthy and ninja-like and white hair DO NOT mix).

Edit: Ninja'd! Which is... highly ironic for that particular post XD

Or you can look towards Wallace's fade out, and see he's clearly kilted.

I know who the mysterious woman on the left is. http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2011/miniatures/oniwaban-shinobu-kitsune/

At least that'd be my guess.

She is indeed Sinobu Kitsune and for completeness shake, you can see over the Muyibs the Nomads dolphin fighters.

Not represented on the game of course.

Bear in mind that Kitsune's model wasn't released until quite a long time after Human Sphere. The book was Sept 2009, she was Feb 2011. That's a year and a half in which they could revise her design - as both still have long white hair, a green/black body suit and a sword... it seems it's the intent, even if the design was changed.

KalashnikovMarine wrote:Or you can look towards Wallace's fade out, and see he's clearly kilted.

Of course, the original Wallace never would have worn a kilt. About 500 years too early!

Marco: or used a two handed claymore, bout two centuries early for that. Whilst I did enjoy Braveheart it has about as much relevance to historical fact as any other film featuring Mel Gibson. Heh in fact the film The Patriot's main character is based off Revolutionary War Colonel Francis Marion "The Swamp Fox" from whom my humble unit of Adri rangers take their nickname. I now feel we're playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon with very oddly revised rules...

and wouldn't it be about three centuries on the kilts? I seem to recall great kilts as depicted in say Braveheart and most of the Adri troops to some extent or another showed up around 16th century, and Wallace campaigned and died very late 12th century to the "really a whole hundred years?" part of the 13th century.


Edit: a brief wiki check informs me that the earliest confirmed source of the great kilt dates to around 1594.


...this is surreal and awesome, a history discussion over a fictionalized version of a historic figure that's more based of another fictionalized version of said historical figure (Aleph's a classic film buff?) all related to a scifi miniatures game.

Best morning ever!

If referring to the short kilt as worn by the Infinity miniature, it was later than the great kilt and didn't really attain popularity until the mid 18th century (so, I may have rounded 450 up a bit). But, indeed, the great kilts as in Braveheart would have been closer to three centuries anachronistic.
In any case, he wouldn't have worn a kilt of any description. It's typical to think of Wallace as an archetypal Scotsman, but most of the normal Scottish "trademarks" post-date him.

It seems that ALEPHs recreations are really closer to personifying mythological versions of individuals than historically accurate ones, but a large amount of the aim of a recreation is to inspire and "fuse" with the population - I expect a version of Wallace or D'Arc that fits with what the population wants to imagine they were like would work better for that than what a historian might tell you.

Whether this is deliberate choice by CB or just unintentional ignorance, I don't know.

It is the first, Aleph simulates all rectrations memories emotions and character according to clients wishes, Joan of Arc has been recreated to fit in the modern church which I would believe the real Joan would rebel against and she is made according to the image the the PanOceania population expects her to be.

Wallace was recreated to inspire the Caledonians to join him and rebel against the rest of Ariadna, he was recreated in the image Aleph believed would inspire and fit the Ariadna Caledonians, not the Scots of the ancient past.

MarcoSkoll wrote:If referring to the short kilt as worn by the Infinity miniature, it was later than the great kilt and didn't really attain popularity until the mid 18th century (so, I may have rounded 450 up a bit). But, indeed, the great kilts as in Braveheart would have been closer to three centuries anachronistic.
In any case, he wouldn't have worn a kilt of any description. It's typical to think of Wallace as an archetypal Scotsman, but most of the normal Scottish "trademarks" post-date him.

It seems that ALEPHs recreations are really closer to personifying mythological versions of individuals than historically accurate ones, but a large amount of the aim of a recreation is to inspire and "fuse" with the population - I expect a version of Wallace or D'Arc that fits with what the population wants to imagine they were like would work better for that than what a historian might tell you.

Whether this is deliberate choice by CB or just unintentional ignorance, I don't know.

I suppose you could pad that number even more if you really want to as the short kilt is technically different by one point or another from the "modern" kilt, a fine example of which I have on right now as it happens.

Very true he was just around for the violence, pipes and alcoholism part but none of the other fun stuff, well that and Sir William was a knight and had to my faulty memory noble birth, so trousers, and a nice set of armor while fighting are a little more spot on for any one considered a knight. I do wish they'd gotten his alleged pyromania in to the mini somehow XD

It's possible that after another century and a half on that ALEPH (or anyone else) literally doesn't know the difference. Historical fiction and historical fact have been irreparable blended and muddled over the millenia

Historical fiction and fact hold no place in Infinity.

For feth's sake, the USAriadnans have a Coca Cola plant and wear stetsons and cowboy boots.

While the discussion might not be your cup of tea, Kanluwen, it doesn't mean the subject of why ALEPH does things isn't of interest to anyone.

@KalashnikovMarine: I'd doubt that the history has been completely lost. What we know today, given our point of technological development, will probably persevere two centuries in the future. However, public knowledge may have further descended into inaccuracy. These people being increasingly further distant in the past, it's very likely that common anachronisms (driven by errors in popular culture) further compound.

MarcoSkoll wrote:While the discussion might not be your cup of tea, Kanluwen, it doesn't mean the subject of why ALEPH does things isn't of interest to anyone.

It's not "why ALEPH does things".

It's "why Corvus Belli does things".

....Really? Stetsons and cowboy boots? Can I be offended by that horrible stereotype?

KalashnikovMarine wrote:....Really? Stetsons and cowboy boots? Can I be offended by that horrible stereotype?

Don't worry. That's just a joke that gets thrown around the DB boards on what the USAriadnians wear when you take into account the Caledonian kilts and Kazak ushankas.
The Minutemen mini is more like what the US are portrayed as in Infinity: Pretty good armor and armaments with no sense of balance.

I admit to wanting the Minuteman mini just because it's so ridiculous.

Kanluwen wrote:It's not "why ALEPH does things". It's "why Corvus Belli does things".

Sorry, but the primary discussion here is about why, in story, ALEPH has done it, even if those reasons can be directly traced back to choices made by CB. And even if the discussion does take nods in that "meta-level", your answer of (essentially) "They did it that way. Who cares?" would still be an unedifying contribution.

If the subject doesn't interest you, then you are free (and encouraged) to not participate.

MarcoSkoll wrote:
@KalashnikovMarine: I'd doubt that the history has been completely lost. What we know today, given our point of technological development, will probably persevere two centuries in the future. However, public knowledge may have further descended into inaccuracy. These people being increasingly further distant in the past, it's very likely that common anachronisms (driven by errors in popular culture) further compound.

Jumping back on topic as I spaced it last post, it's very possible that in the big shake ups compounded that problem with losses of data and maybe even a collapse in education. Given the technical nature of the "modern" earth cultures I'd hazard a guess that liberal arts like history weren't exactly first up on the priority list when things got back to functioning properly again.

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Given the technical nature of the "modern" earth cultures I'd hazard a guess that liberal arts like history weren't exactly first up on the priority list when things got back to functioning properly again.

The Infinity universe is not post-apocalyptic, there has been no fall to get back up from - with the possible exception of the colonies on Dawn.

The US went into financial meltdown at some stage but the world as a whole carried on regardless. PanO in particular appears to have had a continuous stream of development and culture from now until the time the game is set.

Kanluwen wrote:Historical fiction and fact hold no place in Infinity.

For feth's sake, the USAriadnans have a Coca Cola plant and wear stetsons and cowboy boots.

Am I the only person who finds that rather awesome?

IJW wrote:

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Given the technical nature of the "modern" earth cultures I'd hazard a guess that liberal arts like history weren't exactly first up on the priority list when things got back to functioning properly again.

The Infinity universe is not post-apocalyptic, there has been no fall to get back up from - with the possible exception of the colonies on Dawn.

The US went into financial meltdown at some stage but the world as a whole carried on regardless. PanO in particular appears to have had a continuous stream of development and culture from now until the time the game is set.

The fluff I've read implies a very large portion of the global economy suffered a massive melt down which allowed Australia (and friends) and China to become the dominant powers and literally BUY the rest of the planet. That is not a small event and there would be more then a little turmoil because of it.

The financial collapse was primarily the US. This of course had knock-on effects, but it was fairly slow and didn't cause a terminal economic impact globally. Even if it had been a serious recession, that doesn't mean all libraries and hard-drives exploded.

And, in any case, PanO and Yu Jing didn't really buy the rest of the planet, at least in the most literal sense - it was a progressive unification of countries that usually had financial motivations, but it wasn't a hostile takeover.

The financial collapse was a huge collapse for north America, Europe and Russia and was primarily caused by the collapse of the Dawn wormhole and the loss of the Ariadne and Aurora Colony ships, while the recession was severe enough to make the old dominant players loose their power and trigger the nanowars in the US, it was nothing close to apocalypse style, we lost everything we knew about, situation, the vacuum was filled with new players and civilization moved on.

Now as far as Stetsons go its something American players was in the forum for USAriadnas, CB has left it without any comment iirc, but if the present USAriadna models are something to give a guide to, I would guess they will be modern SF based in their looks.

The only reason Dawn is behind technologically is because it was cut off from the rest of humanity and did not have the infrastructure from which to build on. Being cut off meant they had to take the time to create their own. It also didn't help they ended up fighting each other and splitting into different countries instead of working together as well. Now that they are a bit more unified and have contact again things will slowly change.

I for one would love some sort of cowboy-ish figure. I think we already have it though with Lucien Sforza. Put a hat on that guy and we have Clint Eastwood.

I must admit the future scots have put me off ariadne a bit. it seems to be a bit silly that they are running around in battle in what is essentially dress uniform. It just seems a bit like as if they had done the merovingians with berrets, moustaches and blue and white dennis the menace t-shirts.

On the other hand i like the idea of stetsons for the americans and fur hats for the russians it gives them that extra bit of difference to the other modern style troops, and doesnt make the look too out of place on the battlefieId. I suppose i just feel that the caledonian models are just a bit too over the top for my tastes.

Honestly that's what I love about the Caledonians, they're just so over the top you have to stop, think for a second and realize your elite tactical squad comprises men in kilts swinging broadswords, descendants of the creme of the crop of Western and Russian Special Forces and fething werewolves! That's heavy metal right there. Insane but heavy metal.

Very well on the fluff, I've only read what's on the insight and it seemed to imply a much larger scale cluster feth.

Im not saying i dislike the russians or even (strange though it may seem for an englishman) the french figures(not enough US ones are out to tell so far), its only really the scots i dont like, but it seems to me the reason why i dislike them is the reason why people who like them end up collecting them, maybe its the fact that they havent been futurised like the space-ninjas, space-nuns or space-knights.
Anyways i feel im mildly derailing the thread here so ill stop posting as it seems the initial conundrum has been solved.

IJW wrote:

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Given the technical nature of the "modern" earth cultures I'd hazard a guess that liberal arts like history weren't exactly first up on the priority list when things got back to functioning properly again.

The Infinity universe is not post-apocalyptic, there has been no fall to get back up from - with the possible exception of the colonies on Dawn.

The US went into financial meltdown at some stage but the world as a whole carried on regardless. PanO in particular appears to have had a continuous stream of development and culture from now until the time the game is set.

We aren't in exactly a good spot right now, educational wise....

....huh


Well that's depressing. Any one join me for a depression whiskey?