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Right, I don't (yet) play warhammer. I collected a couple of the models as a kid and played one intro game but that was it. Recently a friend(/that-git-who-wants-me-to-be-poor ) of mine has been trying to get me into it and as a sci-fi fan I caved miserably and got a few necron things. I still kinda intend to build that army, but slowly due to lack of money. However as a massive doctor who fan I joked about proxying in some Dalek minifigs, and recently about proxying in a Dalek Saucer for a monolith. Yesterday I started thinking and realised I'd rather have a dalek army, and I like the idea of putting together their own rules. Plus its much cheaper.

For figures I plan to use the 35 mm ones given away in magazines (if I'm lucky I'll have 32 by next week). These are a bit big, but considerably cheaper than the old 28 mm ones. Besides I like the larger new paradigm, so there. I'd like to also use the saucer set from character building, though a while back I planned on scratchbuilding my own. http://jim028.deviantart.com/art/Exterminate-vs-Exterminatus-II-208971968?q=boost%3Apopular+dalek+warhammer&qo=29 - Here's a size comparison with a painted one. Bigger than they're supposed to be but the right order of magnitude. Especially if I don't put them on seperate bases (iffy).

Anyway, I don't really know how to play the game, which is why I'm reading through the 5th edition rulebook and learning as I think of things. I've also seen the previous thread in this forum that had some ideas, and seen other ideas floating around. Most of the stats are contradictory.

So to start of, here's all the different things I can think of that could go in a Dalek army.

Dalek Emperor
Half of them are immobile which wouldn't be that useful, the moving ones have big spherical top halves to the casing. I'm thinking toughest armour and psyker abilities, but I dn't know much about those. this owuld proabbly be the most expensive HQ one you could have.

Cult of Skaro
'Above and beyond the emperor', meant to think like the enemy. Possibly not as they were specific individuals, and I'm probably going to use New Paradigm models. Still, figured I'd include them. Expensive and give a bonus to a specific enemy or something? Perhaps upgrading a supreme?

Dalek Supreme
Possibly not the basic HQ leader, but an upgrade to perhaps?(metalert casing, tougher)

Eternal
We have no idea what it is, except that it has unique livery (all the others are colour plus silver, this is yellow plus black. even the supreme is silver) and is probably time travel related. Perhaps it can either have or apply to others the necron resurrection rule? to represent time travel and having a second go? (Though they don't normally do that). Eldar have guys that can see the future right, is there a mechanic for that?

'Black' Dalek
May need a different name if I don't use that colouring, these have historically been in charge in some episodes, and are possibly what was later named Dalek Supreme. Or rather, supremes are black Daleks, but not all Balck Daleks may be Supremes. Either way this can be a normal overall leader level that upgrades into supreme. Like Lords and Overlords for Necrons.

Emperor's Personal Guard
These /black domed ones have shown up in a couple of episodes, once with bigger second gunsticks. Can be a unit that goes with the emperor or perhaps can show up on their own in smaller numbers. Think triachs

Saucer Commander
Below the whole task force one, upgrade of normal commander? IIRC you can put necron lords in one of the vehicles, so maybe take that rule?

'Commander'
Not sure of the name. an officer that leads drones, like a squad captain or something. Perhaps elite with it's own guard? Or perhaps an officer that goes into normal squads? Or split it into two and have both. On that note:

Scientist & strategist
The other types of officer. Add them to squads to add abilities? So strategists let them be more tactical (outflank is a seperate thing isn't it?) while scientist gives them some tech?

Drone/Warrior/Standard Dalek
A dalek. Basically a minitank, though someone made a good argument for monstrous creature rather than vehicle. Good armour, good gun, possibly shields added to armour (scientist upgrade?), probably relativly expensive for fairness. I've seen AV9/10 suggested in some places.

Special Weapons Dalek
No eyestalk, plunger or gunstuick. One MASSIVE gun. Insane even by dalek standard. Possibly borrow necron destroyer traits, though it could be argued that ALL daleks should have the hate everything trait. [] Other Daleks think its an abomination. Basically artiller, so the gun has a template?

Dalek Trooper/Roboman/Ogrons
Mercenary/slave/monkey like alien - humanoid troops under Dalek command. Cheap cannon fodder. If robomen then slow and stupid, if ogrons then VERY slow and stupid..

Dalek Saucer
Probably uses monoltih rules, though maybe flying a little higher? Might split this into two, smaller ones like this and a full on cruiser that might use Titan rules? (Probably wouldn't use, just put it in for completeness). I'd like to have this in, problem with is it's quite large for something flying, so either you'd have to pretend it's higher up and just never move it over a building, make my own base(fiddly if I'm using the character building one) and again never move it over a building, or hold in in mid air the whole game. How to flying units cope with buildings and such if you can't really put a base down?

Hoverbout/Transolar disc/Skimmer
The first two are small disc like vehicles Daleks fly around in kinda like the small necron fighters. The latter is from the 'lego' saucer, which has a detatchable skimmer, that's a two dalek one. Might not use it though. They'd probably be fast attack.

Slyther
Rubbery betentacled monsters used as a 'guard dog' occasionally. Not sure what that would be, almost certainly borrow something from the tyrannid rules.

Varga plant
Walking cactus person. If it pricks you you a turn into a varga plant. Apparently genestealers, some chaos thing, and necron mind scarabs have mechanics for this, do any of them work for permament conversion or can they all be shaken off with leadership? I'm thinking once jabbed you turn into one and attack formerly friendly models in site (close quarters only, lose weapons after first turn, get varaga stats after second?), and maybe get a leadership role to commit suicide? Armour realistically should block this which can act as a balancing. also makes sense if they're weak against flame weapons.for a model I'm thinking an imperial guard with a suitably 'oh god the pain' face covered in cotton wool.

On the Dalek itself, they're squishly little mutant blobs in minitanks. The natural choice is to class them as vehicles (but move them like infantry), someone in the previous thread here made good arguments for them being monstrous creatures due to the traits. They've got very accurate*, very deadly guns, very tough armour (and sometimes shields - perhaps for elite or HQ units? Or a scientist upgrade?). The silly little plunger arm is actually very strong ( as in has apparently dented steel on screen and anyone grabbed by it usually doesn't get away) so could make a good close combat weapon, but the nature of the dalek makes them awkward in cc. So high strength, low weapon skill? Probably low initiative as well, partly for the awkward cc partly for them hanging around shouting exterminate instead of shooting. Leadership I'm not sure. They don't ever run away, but can panic. Not sure exactly what stats to choose to represent the tough shell and squishy inside, high armour save, moderate toughness, and one wound? (possibly higher armour but if wounded its the eyestalk blown off and they can't see? )

The next issue though is moving. At first glance they're buggered on anything other than a flat surface, sicne the secodn story they've acted like hovercraft though and can cope with most small bumps and such, and even stairs but still have soem issues with climbing. By the end of the classic series they can completely hover, and by the new series they can fly like fighter jets if they want. I've never like the full flight abilities so I'd probably keep it as a hover. One suggestion was that at the start of a movement turn they can elevate (but not move) then move like skimmer tanks or jet troops until they decide to spent a turn landing (and perhaps if they land in difficult terrain they're in trouble? They can cope normally but if they are knocked over they can have issues). For normal bumps and such they can hover over like humans can jump small obstacles.

*Except when shooting main characters. An amusing thought:They have extremely high BS against normal troops, but rubbish against HQ.

For wargear there's the obvious gunstick. Plungers have been used in close combat, on occasion they have claws, flamethrowers, or blowtorches (perhaps the right officer can grant these to a unit? Another thought was strategist could upgrade the eyestalk, example: the new night vision rule?). Normal casings are dalekanium, supremes and such can have them upgraded to metalert. Forcefields for elites and HQs (one is stated to make you catch fire if you touch the casing. Though that was actually on a drone, it seems unbalanced for close combat). Transmat pads or systems for teleporting? The saucer could maybe deepstrike units.

Don't know what the gunstick would be based on, it has different modes in the series (including a paralysis beam which I don't really see the point of here [] ), it's pretty much never misses (except when shooting the Doctor) and usually always kill instantly in one hit (except when hitting the doctor) by screwing up the insides. Sometimes it has a widebeam, perhaps an upgrade? (strategist?) Usually doesn't punch holes in stuff and just ignores armour (seems harsh) not even scratching surfaces. Other times it will cause explosions or punch through several meters of concrete. Perhaps guass weapons stats?

Anyway, here are the basic stats aforementioned friend suggested:

WS 3 BS 4 S 4 T 5 W 1 I 2 LD 8/9 SV 3+

Here's the previous thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/272933.page#1235582

And heres a couple of other attempts people have made(not always ones I like):
http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=118215.0;wap2
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=8589
http://www.selwg.com/Dalek.pdf


Anyway, it should be obvious by now that when it comes to the game rules, I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. So help and advice would be useful. I'd like to be able to crush my friend's imperial guard beneath the mighty metaphorical foot of the Dalek Empire, but it would be good if it wasn't too easy. So I suppose it should be fairly balanced

I'd just like to point out, as the aforementioned friend, that you will never crush the mighty guard... and who needs money anyway right :p.

Hope you get some good advice here as I know nothing about Dr who as you know haha!

adam304 wrote:I'd just like to point out, as the aforementioned friend, that you will never crush the mighty guard... and who needs money anyway right :p.

Hope you get some good advice here as I know nothing about Dr who as you know haha!

I on the other hand know ALL the Who but not much 40K.

Anyway, latest proposal is that all Daleks would have an elevate rule, that acts like jump for moving over terrain, with a test if you lang on difficult or dangerous. However you only move at normal infantry speed, not the double speed of jump infantry. So they get the option of more mobility without the whole army looking like yoda on crack.

As an additional unit: Assault Daleks with a claw-blowtorch that can like regular jump infantry (and have a higher WS). I vaguely recall melee troops that are good at attacking vehicles and slicing through the armour, perhaps the weapon can do that role (since the one on screen use was cutting through a door). (The poor guardsman. Face crushed and burnt at the same time!)

Hoverbouts would either be necron destroyer esque skimmers or more like their fancy new fighters.

Small saucers (scout ships) could be like the larger fighters (doom scythe? I forget)? With slightly large saucers as basically a flying monolith (perhaps has to land to dispense troops?) Undecided there.

Officers (Elites?) or at the very least HQ units like supremes would have shields so an invuln save. Not necessarily a big one for the lower ranks though.

Thematically they should be like Terminators but more shooty, practically it's probably better if they're more like space marines, perhaps slightly tougher and slightly fewer of them, then filling out with cheap robomen troops? Or balanced so there's the option of a pure dalek army and the other troops just give different options? I'll probably use SM as a base for the main troops, perhaps terminators (scaled to shooty) for elites?

Right, I'm trying to organsise these into types, and I'm unsure.

Here's what I've 'decided' on:

For HQ:

Emperor - grants personal guard (royal court style)
Supreme - grants command staff (same)
Commander

That's fine.

Fast Attack:

Hoverbout - like either destroyer or tomb blade
Assault - basically jump infantry

Heavy Attack:

Saucer - basically a flying monolith.
Special Weapons Dalek - plus maybe a normal dalek or two as a guard? It's basically a giant gun.

Troops:

Robomen (& possibly ogrons) - cheap conscripts



Undecided:

Slyther (basically amonster that tries to chew your head off). Not many of them so I suppose elite, monstrous creature?

Varga Plants - I suppsoe until I decide on the mechanic it's hard to decide whats balanced. I wouldn't say they're common enough to feel right as troops, but they don't seem tough enough for elites. Saying that, turning everyone you touch (which would have to be watered down for balance) into another varga plant has the potential to be horrifyingly nasty if they get into close combat (infiltrate has been suggested, they are ambush predators anyway)

Dalek Drones/warriors - Do I put them in troops (perhaps with a squad leader like a sergeant?) or in elite? I was going to put them in troops. Perhaps units capped at five(not counting command staff) and between space marine and terminator in strength?

But then I kinda need another elite other than just monsters, and I can't think of anything. Just plain old elite Daleks? Perhaps make 'drones' the troops and 'warriors' the elites? Or should I scrap the command staff(kinda like it though) and have officer lead squads for elites (with better stats than the troops)? (Actually Veteran Daleks could work)


*Lifted from the royal courts idea(kudos Adam), mainly the cyrpteks. Basically there's three officer types, the red blue and orange ones from the new paradigm (so soldier, strategist and scientist). Each has a selection of upgrades they can offer a unit. For every Dalek supreme you get one unit of command staff(Paradigm maybe? Can work on the name) that doesn't count towards HQ. you can choose how many of which officers you want (say up to five?) and then either keep them as a group or attatch them to other units (say any non flying one?) and they grant their chosen upgrade to that unit. Since in a royal court you can use lords as well as wizards - sorry - crypteks, perhaps add Commanders there too?

As a similar thing, if you have the Emperor (expensive) you get a unit of personal guard which can be their own unit or be attatched to him.

EDIT:

Probably put vet Daleks. Sylthers, and Vargas in Elite (and maybe make slyther nastier than it was on the show).

Next question: How tough can the special weapons dalek be? The one time seen on the show it ignored other dalek fire and vaporised two in one shot. Really it should be a (slightly scaled back?)tank, just made smaller, but I'm wondering if that will cause issues in it being too small to easily hit?

EditEdit: Found another thread, here they've just been substituted stright into the necron rules. Don't agree with all of them, but I might take some of those.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/409740.page

Edit^3: The officers upgrading the squad seems overpowered, probably better just to have their own ability

I know I'm going to butcher some of the spelling of these, and if you think of a few that I forgot, throw 'em in

Special rule:
The Doctor
If a Dalek army faces an army containing at least one of the following:
Space Marines, Black Templar, Dark Angels: Apothecary
Sisters of Battle: Hospitaller
Blood Angels: Sanguinary Priest
Imperial Guard: Medic
Dark Eldar: Haemonculous
Orks: Dok, Mad Dok Grotsnik
All models in the Dalek army get -1 to all statistics as long as at least one of the above characters is alive.

Interested tidbit:

Citadel Miniatures once produced a Doctor Who board game, it was ages ago, but you might want to look into that.

I know there were Daleks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And if I may suggest, Daleks have little to no close combat skill, but their guns are probably equivalent to a plasma gun that doesn't get hot and their armor like a Terminator's.

Just going to point out that Dalek drones and warriors are different. In the show this is usually apparent by dialogue but in fluff drones have no shields, have less intelligence and cannot formulate discussions. On the flipside warriors are shown to be delusional in the fact that they have emotions and know fear but bury it under so much doctrine that they appear to be megalomaniacs. Here is where it gets complicated; the renegade dalek faction or those led by the Dalek supreme (otherwise called the supreme dalek to distinguish it from the "dalek supreme" title that is given to daleks who control theatres of war in the dalek empire) have the lower ranks almost completely filled with warrior class daleks and hate the idea of drone class daleks and see them as a perversion of true dalek intelligence. Meanwhile the Imperial dalek faction (those led by davros in the stories of revelation of the daleks and remembrance of the daleks) have forbidden the creation of warrior class daleks as the warrior class daleks of previous generations have always rebelled against davros and sought self-determination. The only exception to this is one warrior class that featured in remembrance of the daleks and led the first battle against the renegade dalek faction until they called in the spec weapons dalek for it's first appearance. The warrior class was then executed off camera for it's failure in defeating two renegade warriors with six imperial drones.

Now the new era dalek dynasty says it uses drones as the battle-class but they infact use soldiers who are fearless, have shields and depending on the breed and generation can hold discussions. the soldier class daleks are also capable of switching weapons on the fly (something not seen in the episodes but stated by steven moffat, this ability has never been hinted at before either making the new dynasty appear less colony like and more individual.) and have stronger weapons then any "cup-holder" dalek previously seen and have the best shields equipped to a combat class. What is more is that it has been confirmed that the new dynasty has not descended from the old empire (the one that fought the time war) or the dalek empire (the original self-determination daleks seen in genesis of the daleks) but it is also unlikely that they are descended from the imperial dalek empire (led by the dalek emperor that looked like an chess piece and the one with a gold fish bowl for a head at different time periods).

What is even more confusing is that the new dynasty daleks have been seriously hinted as being descended from the dals, the third species of skaro, who went extinct after the first two hundred years of the war on skaro (one thousand, eight hundred years before the story genesis of the daleks) meaning that, if true, the new dynasty daleks were created at least 1780 years before davros experienced the trauma that caused him to think up the dalek (at that time called the type 1 travel machine) with technology that even outstripped the kaleds (who were the most advanced race on the planet before the war).

Big plot is big. I hope you can convey the uniqueness of each group when you make this but if I were you I would just focus on the group that you like the most and make them a codex. Whatever the case should be fun to read and maybe play some games.