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Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






Hey guys

I've literary just brought the codex and the FW tzeentch greater daemon.

Before I brought the book I knew there was a lot of negativity shrouding this army as I have read into this subject before.

I just couldn't keep my claws off them! Now with the recent update and the altered point costs I was wondering wether the army actually did have some good points to it.

I brought the codex with a friend who collects tau, and all he does is put the army down aswell

Any help would be really appreciated!
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Chesapeake Beach, Maryland

Make sure you grab/have copy of the latest WD mag since it has a codex addition for the Daemons.

   
Made in se
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman






I believe with the new White Dwarf update and the new 6th edition rules for Flying Montrous Creatures that the Chaos Daemons will fare way better than they did in 5th edition.

Flamers are now really good, sure they were good before also but the big point drop does wonders. The Screamers are also now a must have, and I believe if they're played correctly that they can wreak havoc among many other lists.
The daemon princes have with the new rules seen a tremendous boost, with wings ofcourse.

Daemons will surely still not win tournaments but it is a way better race now and are in my opinion playable.

Armies:  
   
Made in au
Lady of the Lake






The main issue they have/had is just their learning curve due to their unorthodox deployment. This can give the false impression about them, but much like the Tau and their glaring issues at first glance, it helps to take a closer look before passing judgement.

They're not great, but they're not crap either.
To get the best out of them a mix of different forces is a good idea as they're sort of specialists.

   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws



Sioux Falls, SD

6th edition definitely helped them out, flying MCs are very potent models. A bloodthirster was a scary thing in 5th(my friend fielded one at a local tournament and I heard a lot of people who got mowed down by it), now with it being a flying MC it is even nastier.

The white dwarf update added some new very fun(for the person fielding them) things to the army as well.

Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius!  
   
Made in gb
Implacable Black Templar Initiate



Glasgow, UK

I think daemons have got a good boost out of 6th. As other people have said here they have a steep learning curve due to deploying by deep strike, and there will be games where you get your wrong wave, everything goes wrong and you get wiped, but once you get the hang of using them they are a very rewarding army to play

I would probably pick up some horrors and plaguebearers as troops to start with. Since you've already picked up a tzeentch greater daemon, you couldn't go wrong with some of the new flamers/screamers, and though he is a bit of a gimmick fateweaver is a useful purchase as well.

Of course, daemons are quite diverse and it really depends on what sort of army you want to build. If you're sticking to mono-god then tzeentch is probably the most competitive, but I began with khorne and had alot of fun with it (didn't win many games though)

Chaos Daemons - 3000
CSM - 2000
Black Templars - 1500 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre





Richmond, VA

5th ed demons were pretty good in the hands of a decent player. They got a bad rap for people that can't win without playing derp style armies, IE dragio wing, IG, SW long fang spam just to name a few.

If you're a good, tactical player, demons will be a rewarding army for you. If you're a 12 year old and have too many SPECCE MARINES that you wanted to start something else, I suggest just stopping while your ahead.

Desert Hunters of Vior'la The Purge Iron Hands Adepts of Pestilence Tallaran Desert Raiders Grey Knight Teleport Assault Force
Lt. Coldfire wrote:Seems to me that you should be refereeing and handing out red cards--like a boss.

 Peregrine wrote:
SCREEE I'M A SEAGULL SCREE SCREEEE!!!!!
 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Black Templar Initiate



Glasgow, UK

juraigamer wrote:5th ed demons were pretty good in the hands of a decent player. They got a bad rap for people that can't win without playing derp style armies, IE dragio wing, IG, SW long fang spam just to name a few.

If you're a good, tactical player, demons will be a rewarding army for you. If you're a 12 year old and have too many SPECCE MARINES that you wanted to start something else, I suggest just stopping while your ahead.


This is a good point. I found in 5th, and am finding in 6th, that some lists that do well in the established meta struggle against daemons due to their unorthodox style. I.e. I have not yet lost to space wolves with daemons, though at the conclusion of 5th they were one of the most competitive factions. Of course, by the same token, there are some armies which are horrible match-ups i.e. assaulty daemons against leafblower guard, and any daemons against gks with interceptors and strike squads etc., but pretty much every faction has its bogey match up. In short, Daemons take a bit of work to figure out but once you do you should find yourself competing pretty decently. Just don't get frustrated, because at the beginning you may lose alot as you get to grips with how they play.

Chaos Daemons - 3000
CSM - 2000
Black Templars - 1500 
   
Made in us
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar




USA

I found in 5th and 6th that my Daemon list struggles against Leafblower IG and really shooty DE armies, but kills Space Marine armies with ease.

Check out my list building app for 40K and Fantasy:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576793.page 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Deamons are great. I just got into Tzeentch deamons, then a)6th came out, making their flying MCs amazing, and b)White Dwarf flamers came out. Those guys are badass.
My friend even insists they're unbeatable. Even with Grey Knights lol.

Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:

jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






The people I play with on a regular basis are abit bland when it comes to placing terrain, both are very shooty orientated,

And my previous army is orks, the reason behind me starting this army is I WANT to learn how to play them, I understand they are a hard army to play, and I don't play any tournaments, just friendlys.

And I'm not the type of guy to gripe over losing a game, but I am to a particular player, a Necron player. He REALLY rubs it in when he wins, and the annoying thing is, he isn't the smartest guy in the world...

So is there a particular starting force I should look into gettin? And I only got the tzeentch god for a modelling project I'm open to any suggestions!
   
Made in gb
Implacable Black Templar Initiate



Glasgow, UK

Ah right, well its pretty much up to what you want to pick up for your army then. I would still recommend a box of horrors and a box of plaguebearers for starters, that gives you enough for 4 5 man units of troops, which is pretty minimal but ticks the box for now. If you decide to need more troops or like one more than the other then you could add to them as needed.

As far as elites go, I love my crushers, but given how the update has boosted them I know many people are using flamers big style. They're very cost effective and excellent against footsloggers, or even vehicles when fielded in numbers (hull point on 4+? Yes please). I can say from personal experience that screamers are awesome, especially for killing terminators.

WIth HQs I've always gone for Fateweaver and then another greater daemon, typically the bloodthirster, especially now as his vector strike is great for dealing with flyers. However, I'm sure other people can give educated opinions on how the heralds stack up in comparison; the greater daemons are alot of points, and when fateweaver runs away after taking one wound it hurts.

Heavy support you have the choice of the new chariots, which I haven't tried, soul grinders, which are class but don't fit with my list, and daemon princes, which are pricy but can work well if you don't go overboard on the upgrades and recognise that they will probably die.

Anyway, that turned into a bit of a ramble, but thats a quick overview of the units I tend to use. Hopefully other folk will chip in with their own opinions to give you a more well-rounded idea of daemons.

Chaos Daemons - 3000
CSM - 2000
Black Templars - 1500 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






Just out of curiosity, why plague Bearers and pink horrors over blood letters and daemonettes? I mean I know pink horrors are just awesome, especially for killing my tau opponent,

1 think that really grinds my gears is his rail guns. He always relates back to his broadsides, and how difficult it is for me to destroy them, is there any particular unit that would perhaps be more attuned to dealing with broadsides, along side his shield drones?
   
Made in gb
Implacable Black Templar Initiate



Glasgow, UK

Well broadsides are only toughness 4 if I remember correctly, so bolt should instant kill them one at a time, or if you give the bloodthirster unholy might then he is strength 8, or strength 9 on the charge, and he should deal with broadsides pretty easily. Screamers are AP2 as well, so they should also make short work of them. Just drop your army close and he'll only get 1-2 turns of shooting.

For troops, I always use pink horrors and plaguebearers now because pink horrors have decent offensive capability and an alright invul save,and plaguebearers are durable as hell with 5++/5+ FnP and toughness 5. My troops are usually 2 x 5 plaguebearers, 150 points, and 2 x 5 horrors, one with bolt and the other with bolt and the changeling, 195 points. That sorts your troops out and gives you lots of room for killy stuff.

Remember that Tau like to castle up, so on objective missions just hide your objectives on the other side of the battlefield behind buildings so he has to come to you, and then dump your plaguebearers there. And look up the changeling's ability, its pretty awesome for just 5 points and since tau have pretty weak leadership its definitely worth a try.

I have about 40 bloodletters and when I started with Khorne daemons I used them all the time. Unfortunately they're just too fragile and need to be taken in larger numbers than horrors/plaguebearers, and with their weapons being AP3 now they aren't as good as they were at killing terminators. Daemonettes I have no experience with, so they could be worth a try, but I feel they're similar to bloodletters but more fragile.

Chaos Daemons - 3000
CSM - 2000
Black Templars - 1500 
   
Made in gb
Gangly Grot Rebel





Daemonettes have I6 and rending, so they're ok as long as the get there fast

I can see it now....Nids are now a collection of autonomous hive fleets there are multiple Hive Minds and they all war with one another in addition to everyone else. They speak to humans using telepathy, and they can now ally with Space Wolves as battle brothers, because reasons.
Tyranids talking to humans would be like you talking to your mashed potatoes or the probiotic in your kiefer drink. It is neither possible nor productive.
Inside my mind I pinched my nipples and savored his bitter silence.

DT:90S+++G+++MB++IPw40k10#+D++A+++/hWD-R++T(T)DM+ 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oh yeah, horrors will rip Tau a new one. 4++ save against EVERYTHING. And IIRC Tau's leadership isn't too great, so see if he's still smiling when his battle suits turn around mid battle and blow the hell out of his own troops.

Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:

jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Boulder, CO

Based on how my wife's army is playing, I'd also suggest getting a unit of 6 Fiends. Those guys are more bad ass than ever. It's also a great opportunity to do some custom building since the damn things are $25 a piece.
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






After watching a few battle reports on YouTube and reading a few batreps i think daemons have significantly been improved. It's just a starter army I need now I'm really grateful for all the advice people have contributed, it has really eased the stress lol

Is it worth fielding flamers in bigger units now due to their decreased point cost? The idea I'm kinda going for is my preferred wave being mainly shooting orientated, (flamers, horrors, tzeentch greater daemons and princes) so I can wittle down the defence, and my second wave being heavy hitters (screamers, bloodcrushers, fiends)

Along side strategic deployment does that sound like a decent think to do? With my first army being orks I don't really know much aside from move forward and smash
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws



Sioux Falls, SD

Get some flamers of tzeentch, they have a flamer template that wounds on 4+ and ignores armor and cover saves, and they are jump infantry. All around they are an incredibly good squad especially since the white dwarf update that I hear made them even cheaper.

Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius!  
   
Made in ca
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator





Calgary, Alberta

One very real issue with daemons is that you will get your non-preferred wave 1/3 of the time. You MUST set your waves up such that you can actually get that wave and not just lose because you have no shooting in it. You should ensure you have aggressively minded units that can soak some shots coming down early.

If you split your waves by role, sometimes you'll come down, do major shooting damage, and be happy, and sometimes, Tzeentch will have other plans and you'll get your CC elements first and they'll get shot to pieces.

One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness, One last blade forged in defiance of fate.
 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






So what your saying is split your army so that it's as equal in offensive and defensive capabilities?
   
 
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