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I took a look through the rules for the upcoming game due to be released at Gencon and (as much as you can tell from a simple read) like them. Out of curiosity, is this the same core set of rules they use for the Wings of War historical fighter games adapted for space or a totally different ruleset?
Seems like its based on the Wings of War fighter games but unlike wings of war you only plan one move ahead instead of three, that leads to a little more practical play. quite a few people are VERY excited about this game.
Wow... three turns ahead? I remember playing some historical minis games 20 years ago when we had to do that (to simulate the time delay in giving orders when they had to be carried by a horseback messenger) and it really put a crimp in abrupt tactics changes.
The maneuvers you plan in Wings of War aren't too drastically large though, and once you know the turn radius of each plane it's fairly easy to anticipate what the enemy will do. All players plan the moves at the same time and reveal them in order, so it's a fun and different approach. I've seen a similar idea used with cars in the autocombat game Outrider.
Anyway my biggest worry with the X-Wing game is the lack of ships in the starter set. It looks to be going more with the "collect them all!" approach instead of providing a solid core in the base game. Having custom stands doesn't allow other ships too be easily used which kind of sucks.
The "maneuver dial" talked about in the rules kind of reminds me of the boardgame Pirate's Cove, where each player would secretly do a single order and then reveal all at once. Also reminiscent of a lighter version of Full Thrust.
Looks like they have some different actions you can do each turn which is a change from Wings of War (where you just shoot). Things like Evade, Focus, etc. which should give some variety, even if it means more tokens to track.
Range bar is similar to Wings of War, except X-Wing uses custom dice (so annoying) followed by damage cards to figure out if an attack hits. Wings of War was just "you're in range, take a damage card" so a bit more depth there.
So all in all it has some vague similarities to Wings of War, but definitely not based heavily on it. Should be fun and light and I'd consider picking it up based on the price and availability of extra ships. Some of the rules seem a little convoluted and I'm not sold on the idea of dice followed by cards (seems like mixing mechanics).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/14 17:26:52
Thanks for the recap. I'm somewhat excited by an official tabletop starfighter game (the wierd WOTC hybrid one didn't appeal to me). The prices are a bit much for a single plastic fig but you do get some cards and counters to balance out the value partially. I'm hoping that they release a ship/fighter every month or two for each side to keep the game fresh. The only ones I can see announced at the moment are the tie fighter and advanced plus the x and y wings. Just from the originial trilogy, that still leaves the B and A wings plus the tie bombers and intercepters.
I've been pretty well disillusioned with Star Wars for the last decade and more but it was pretty much my favorite thing in the world as a kid. As such, any new Star Wars product has me tied up in knots, wondering if anything can recapture what I loved about the franchise as from tyke to teenager. This product is the biggest hope I've had for that since the premiere of (and my eventually disappointment over) the Clone Wars show. I really look forward to the demo vids that will come out of GenCon this weekend.
As soon as the doors opened to the vendor area at GenCon the line at the FFG booth was as long as your imagination will allow, and the boxes that everyone seemed to be carrying were Android: Netrunner and this game. The line was ridiculously long. The only thing that made me sad was that the booster I saw called 'Tie Advanced' when it was really a 'Tie Bomber'. At least according to the old Tie Fighter PC game, which I believe is a holy text on the subject.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Manchu wrote:
And the awesome guys at Team Covenant got a great interview with one of the producers, Steve Kimball.
They also have a couple more videos on the subject but the other interesting one is a nice 10 minute+ sit down unboxing of the starter set.
Ahtman wrote:As soon as the doors opened to the vendor area at GenCon the line at the FFG booth was as long as your imagination will allow, and the boxes that everyone seemed to be carrying were Android: Netrunner and this game. The line was ridiculously long. The only thing that made me sad was that the booster I saw called 'Tie Advanced' when it was really a 'Tie Bomber'. At least according to the old Tie Fighter PC game, which I believe is a holy text on the subject.
That would indeed be strange. All the preview pics show the tie advanced on their website and they haven't announced the tie bomber yet as a fig (although its fairly obvious that it will be one to most fans). Did the boosters actually have dual cylinder hull tie bombers? I don't know how familiar you are with Star Wars fighters but the advanced is chunkier than the typical fighter with thicker wing connectors but only has a single hull design compared with the two side by side tubes of the bomber.
In my oxygen deprived head (from walking all around GenCon and all the gaming) I forgot the Bomber was the dual tube Tie, and was confusing the Tie Interceptor for the Tie Advanced. I just the long wings reminiscent of the Bomber and forgot everything I knew. Mea Culpa and all that.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Manchu wrote:So what kind of expansions would you guys like to see?
Must haves:
- A-wing - B-wing - TIE Interceptor - TIE Bomber
I'd expect those to be the first ones to come out after those already announced as they would complete the original trilogy basic collection. When they eventually get around to larger ships, I'd expect the Millenium Falcon, Slave One, and Imperial Shuttles (they hinted at the larger ships in last year's gencon video). Other than that, they'd have to move onto the EU or the Clone Wars. In the EU, I'd like a Z-95 (my personal fav from the old tie fighter games), the predator TIE fighter from the Legacy era comics 120 years after the original trilogy, and the TIE defender (which would have some serious balance issues or point cost if it was as good as in the old PC game). From the prequel trilogy, the episode 2 jedi fighter (the spear head shaped one obi-wan used), the arc-170 fighter/bomber, Sith Infiltrator, and the LAAT are my favs and instant-buys. My guess is that they'll complete the original trilogy stuff first, then same era +/20 years EU stuff (more rebellion vs imps), and then move onto the Clone Wars and more distant EU.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/17 19:16:48
Another demo video, this time on a map of the Death Star surface:
You can see Team Covenant getting their video I posted above at the same time in the background lol ...
This vid makes me think expansions will not just be ships but also ... I guess you could call them "scenario packs" with components like a map of the Death Star and turbo laser towers as seen in this vid.
Personally, I am not too interested in prequel ships or EU stuff. I'd rather see the Galactic Civil War period get the attention, focusing on making more for these classic ships to do regarding scenarios and expanding the depth of tactical and strategic options, rather than just a race to put out more plastic ships.
Manchu wrote:
This vid makes me think expansions will not just be ships but also ... I guess you could call them "scenario packs" with components like a map of the Death Star and turbo laser towers as seen in this vid.
Personally, I am not too interested in prequel ships or EU stuff. I'd rather see the Galactic Civil War period get the attention, focusing on making more for these classic ships to do regarding scenarios and expanding the depth of tactical and strategic options, rather than just a race to put out more plastic ships.
I too want them to start with the original trilogy but frankly they'll run out of material by the end of the year even if they release one fig per side per month and in 6 months if they just do one fig for the line per month if limited to just the OT. Your list of figs (the rest of the ties and rebel alphabet soup) is it unless they start coming out with larger figs (which I want *eventually* but not for a while.. 6 months or so would be a sweet spot). While I do see a spot for scenarios, I'd prefer them to be either bundled with a fig or come out twice a year as they don't frankly drive sales much. At most, a group of 2-3 players would pick up a single scenario pack between them whereas at least half the players would be interested in a fig or even multiples of a fig. Would a fig per side or just one fig per month period be too frequent for you? I'd like to be able to start spending some money on star wars again after WOTC dropped me as a customer as I frankly enjoyed buying a booster pack of star wars minis on a weekly basis. Even monthly would be fine for me now as I don't frequent the same store and rarely make it even once a month.
edit: I guess sooner rather than later for the larger ships. MilFalc, slave 1, a-wing, interceptor pic from gencon.
In FFG in-flight report supposedly they hinted towards a starwars minis game.
I suspect this would not be released until late next year or the year after. Think they are waiting for the starwars minis market to dry up (bone dry) from the previous wizards of the coast minis game).
I would be interested in a starwars minis game as long as it is nothing like the WotC game. Power creep, meta build, total cheese, very few good pieces and a ton of crap piece.
I actually rather liked most of their sculpts except for the last few sets. Star Wars and D&D minis were incredible deals for their price and I could have NEVER bought and painted the 1,000+ fantasy minis and 200+ scifi minis I acquired in my keep pile (let alone the likely 1,000+ in my garbage/trade pile) in the time that those lines were at their peaks. Were there some absolute stinkers in each set? You bet.. but IMO they were balanced out by the gems and massively outnumbered by the average ones.
The route FFG seems to be taking though (at least from the look of the starfighters shown in this game compared with the WOTC set) is quality for a premium price. I'd expect them to go that same route with any infantry game they do.
It looks like the Millennium Falcon will cost about 30 USD. That's steep but IMO well worth it considering the detail. Also, they're calling the slightly larger bases used by the Falcon and Slave I "medium size" bases implying there might one day be large bases. Definitely glad I purchased a full size Hotz mat for this already!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
warboss wrote: ould a fig per side or just one fig per month period be too frequent for you?
Yeah, I think that way too much to ask and would kill the lifespan of the product line quickly.
TBH, I'd really like to see repaints of the X-wings, A-wings, Y-wings, etc. That way we could have Red Squadron and Gold Squadron but also Green and Blue Squadrons, etc. I suspect this game will eventually develop to higher point levels, which means a lot of ships looking exactly a like on big mats unless there are some repaints.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/19 02:33:03
I think you can be reasonable certain you'll have one as/when there is a third wave. The second wave is supposed to be coming out by winter but then again the overall game was supposed to be out last February. So I'd say you may have your B-Wing if at all by Summer 2013.
Manchu wrote: It looks like the Millennium Falcon will cost about 30 USD. That's steep but IMO well worth it considering the detail. Also, they're calling the slightly larger bases used by the Falcon and Slave I "medium size" bases implying there might one day be large bases. Definitely glad I purchased a full size Hotz mat for this already!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
warboss wrote: ould a fig per side or just one fig per month period be too frequent for you?
Yeah, I think that way too much to ask and would kill the lifespan of the product line quickly.
TBH, I'd really like to see repaints of the X-wings, A-wings, Y-wings, etc. That way we could have Red Squadron and Gold Squadron but also Green and Blue Squadrons, etc. I suspect this game will eventually develop to higher point levels, which means a lot of ships looking exactly a like on big mats unless there are some repaints.
Interesting... the little quote icon thing carries avatar animation through to the smaller size... (I changed it for that reason, lol). $30 is a bit pricey IMO. Their material costs (which I know don't translate exactly to retail price but should correlate loosely) are maybe $2-3 more if that and they're charging double. $20 would have been a pie in the sky price but $25 is the most I'd pay for that. Lucky for me I frankly have very little interest in either the Slave 1 or Mil Falc. I suspect that they will eventually do repaints a year down the line to entice existing players to rebuy figs they already have.
Two starter sets! Cheapest way to get TIE Fighters and X-Wings. Plus you get dice sets and extra measurement templates. I also pre-ordered a third dice set because I'd love to see the game played with three ships and three people, all playing an individual pilot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This pic gives an idea of the size of the Falcon:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/19 05:05:09
I guess they do look bigger when you place them next to the regular craft (especially next to the tiny a-wing!). Eh, maybe they'll convince me to get the falcon but thats still in the air.
I wonder what pilots they can come out with for those larger ones. It looks like the smaller craft get their pilots from the movies and EU so I'd assume the same is true for the larger variants. I'd guess Lando, Chewie, and Han come with the Mil Falc but I can't recall anyone piloting slave 1 other than Boba in this time period. Does anyone know of other EU pilots that used the firespray craft other than the fetts?
IIRC, Dengar and Fett worked together for a significant period of time after Fett crawled out of the Saarlac. So he might be included.
I also think the Falcon should be a multi-pilot ship, as in you can choose a pilot and a co-pilot. It would be cool if what benefits/costs you get/pay are dependent on who takes which role.
