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If I convert a crusader to have a power axe, rather than his power sword, would that be considered legal? Would he then have +1 strength and AP2? Also, while we're on the topic, would the same thing apply to Death Cult Assasins? ( a few power axes or more in the unit would be helpfull )

There are numerous threads about this topic. Yes, it is legal, yes it is cheesy.

NOOOOOOO!!!! Sorry, it is technically legal, as long as the wargear says "power weapon". Of course you will find that some people here claim that modeling something else is MFA.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:There are numerous threads about this topic. Yes, it is legal, yes it is cheesy.

It is currently legal. It is currently under debate for whether it is intended for you to be able to change the stock weapons or model one of each.

SoloFalcon1138 is trying to inject his own opinion into it.


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Also, be aware that because it may not have been intended, if GW FAQs it you may have to convert back later.

Wait for the FAQ

Id say if his wargears says he has a power weapon then yes , however if the base cost of the models says power sword with no aditional cost for the axe then NO. My 2 pennies worth.

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:Wait for the FAQ

Personally, and this is just me, I converted my 3 of my crusaders to have axes (1 was the guy with the point down sword and I didn't want to chop it that bad). I kept the swords, just in case, though. My DCA were converted from wyches in 5th and already had a mix of weapons, so I changed them up a bit more. Easy enough to convert back if the FAQ changes it.

Excellent feedback, thank you to all. I have some wyches I converted into DCA's, but the weapons keep breaking off... I will use Warriors of Chaos to create some Crusaders and put some axes on some of them. I'll check the faq when it comes out and see if it's a no no. If so, it should not be a problem. Again, thanks for all the good feedback.

The real question is where in the rules do they allow you to convert your models?

Are we talking about Black Templars Crusader's here? If so, you can 100% change what they have to what you want. The entry says:

"One Initiate may be armed with the following weapons: Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol at X Points..."

Power Weapon. Not sword, not axe, not maul. Power Weapon.

Now on something like a Chaplain? Nope, it is a Power Maul no matter what you want it to be.

Ghaz wrote:The real question is where in the rules do they allow you to convert your models?

I dont think it says it directly, but the theme of 6th seems to be, "creating your own", or something to that effect. Not being allowed to convert your models would be against the spirit of the game and I dont think such a rule would exist. So Ghaz, that is actually a really good point and question you bring up. Kudos.

Perhaps in tournament land, it can or is different?

Garukadon wrote:

Ghaz wrote:The real question is where in the rules do they allow you to convert your models?

I dont think it says it directly, but the theme of 6th seems to be, "creating your own", or something to that effect. Not being allowed to convert your models would be against the spirit of the game and I dont think such a rule would exist. So Ghaz, that is actually a really good point and question you bring up. Kudos.

Perhaps in tournament land, it can or is different?

It's really hard to say. There are units that have no description at all (such as Crusaders) as to what their Power Weapon SHOULD be. The pack that allows you to officially make Crusaders comes with Sword/Axe....so in this instance as nothing is already predefined in the Codex or Box I have to imagine it is up to the builder/player.

The rules tell you to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon it has. A stock model would have one specific type of weapon usually. Where do the rules say that you can convert that model to have a different type of power weapon? Better to hash it out here than in the middle of a tournament.

I look at a crusader with a sword, axe, maul or lance then look at the profile where it says a Crusader has a power weapon, all rules are satisfied. The model has what the rules allow and it is properly modeled.

To state you can only use what the model came with is fine with me as well. I just bought a Crusader off of eBay. It came with a maul. I'm using it as it was supplied to me. Common sense tells me you look at the model as it sits on the table to keep someone from saying "this one has a maul, that one has a lance" even though they are all carrying swords.

Ghaz wrote:The rules tell you to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon it has. A stock model would have one specific type of weapon usually. Where do the rules say that you can convert that model to have a different type of power weapon? Better to hash it out here than in the middle of a tournament.

I don't think it is clearly stated. It is more about the fact that it says "look at the model" and there is nothing stopping you from putting what you want on there (as it has always been). So technically if the only rule is "look at the model" and altering models isn't illegal you can figure that you are allowed to do it. I think that is the best answer that exists.

Ghaz wrote:The rules tell you to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon it has. A stock model would have one specific type of weapon usually. Where do the rules say that you can convert that model to have a different type of power weapon? Better to hash it out here than in the middle of a tournament.

So you are saying we have to use the models as supplied by GW and can not convert any models?

I guess no one is using Harpy's then.

Or Tactical Squads with Lascannons or Plasma Cannons.

Or Razorbacks with Assault Cannons or Lascannon and TL Plasma Guns.

Or Sternguard with Combi-Plasma, Etc...

All of the options available in the codex are not represented on the sprues for said models, some units do not even have models.

We have to be allowed to convert models otherwise some of the options in the codex are not legal.

Ghaz wrote:The real question is where in the rules do they allow you to convert your models?

Same place where they allow you to assemble them.

Where in the rules it says that you can wear pants while playing?

Crimson wrote:

Ghaz wrote:The real question is where in the rules do they allow you to convert your models?

Same place where they allow you to assemble them.

Where in the rules it says that you can wear pants while playing?

Wait, we are supposed to wear pants while playing?

I really have been doing that incorrectly

Darn it DR, you beat me to it. As longs as I don't have to wear a shirt as well, I will continue to win...

DeathReaper wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Ghaz wrote:The real question is where in the rules do they allow you to convert your models?

Same place where they allow you to assemble them.

Where in the rules it says that you can wear pants while playing?

Wait, we are supposed to wear pants while playing?

Of course not, the rules don't let us.

Just keep your hands where I can see 'em.

UT doesn't really matter to me, but saying that the rules that tell you to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon it has does not say that you can change the weapon to what kind of power weapon you want. Its like someone telling you to look at a car to determine what color it is and you take it as permission to repaint the car in whatever color you want.

And he darn sure isn't going to be allowed to touch my dice either.


Edit. So you are saying that using models in an army that are not released is illegal? Better clarify that for you. Models not yet released.

Can Crusaders have power axes? Yes! Go for it. You can convert your freaking models, dont let someone tell you otherwise. However, you must convert. So no "this sword is an axe"

And then theres Death Cult assassins... I think it's legal to give one of them two axes. Or two swords, maces, or lances. however, a lot of people want an axe and a sword, which I personally believe is not allowed. However, there are several threads and people talking about it, and they have some good points.

Ghaz wrote:The rules tell you to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon it has. A stock model would have one specific type of weapon usually. Where do the rules say that you can convert that model to have a different type of power weapon? Better to hash it out here than in the middle of a tournament.

While that may be a valid point if all you're trying to do is establish the baseline for the rules based on pure RAW, unless people are going to start playing with Tactical Marines not being allowed any heavy weapon other than a Missile Launcher and their Sergeants not having access to power weapons at all, it's a pointless argument.


No, the rules don't say you can convert your models. There is, however, a commonly accepted practice whereby models can be equipped with whatever options they are legally entitled to. Otherwise, we would suddenly not be legally allowed to play with half of the options from many of our codexes.

A power weapon can be any one of the three forms listed in the rulebook. If we accept that models are allowed to be equipped with the weaponry that their army list entry allows, then putting any of those three power weapons on your model is perfectly acceptable.



The rules telling you to look at the model to determine what weapon they are carrying is purely establishing WYSIWYG. It's not intended to stop you from using whichever of the available weapons you choose... because if it is, the entire game is going to come to a screeching halt as just about every Marine player on the planet suddenly finds that his army is illegal. That way lies madness.



Besides, as has been pointed out in the previous threads discussing this, until GW puts out a DCA model that actually has the correct weapons to fit her unit entry, looking at the model doesn't tell you what they are equipped with, since neither of GW's DCA models has two power weapons.

TLR - Putting axes on your Crusaders is no different to putting axes on Tactical Sergeants.


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Ghaz wrote: Its like someone telling you to look at a car to determine what color it is and you take it as permission to repaint the car in whatever color you want.

It's really not, and that's not what people are doing anyway.


The permission to repaint the car is implicit in the idea that the car should represent what it is supposed to be. If your army list entry says you can take a car and give it a blue paintjob, then that should be represented by a car with a blue paintjob. If you only have a green car, then to accurately represent a blue one, you're going to have to repaint it.

The rule telling you to look at the car to determine what colour it is just telling you to look at the car to determine what colour it is. It has no bearing on whether or not you are allowed to repaint the car to make it the colour it is supposed to be.

Pants mandatory!

liturgies of blood wrote:Pants mandatory!

Yea, going to need a Page reference for where this is stated...

Ghaz wrote:UT doesn't really matter to me, but saying that the rules that tell you to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon it has does not say that you can change the weapon to what kind of power weapon you want. Its like someone telling you to look at a car to determine what color it is and you take it as permission to repaint the car in whatever color you want.

The car (power weapon) may be blue(axe) or green(sword). The dealer only sells green ones but since the law allows me to drive a blue car it would not be illegal to paint one blue.

DeathReaper wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:Pants mandatory!

Yea, going to need a Page reference for where this is stated...

See the examples of how to play a game in the first pages of the book? Are the guys wearing pants? An explicit example of wearing pants while playing a game. Nothing in the rules says you have a choice in the matter.

insaniak wrote:There is, however, a commonly accepted practice whereby models can be equipped with whatever options they are legally entitled to.

Which would be more appropriate than trying to claim that the rule that tells you to look at the model to determine what kind of power weapon the model has.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
The car (power weapon) may be blue(axe) or green(sword). The dealer only sells green ones but since the law allows me to drive a blue car it would not be illegal to paint one blue.

That is not a proper analogy for the rule in question. The rule in question simply tells you to look at the car to determine its color. It does not give or deny permission to repaint the car, nor does it dictate what color the car originally is.

What if my wife wants to wear a dress when she games?Thinking of which if there are no females depicted playing the game in the rule book, are they allowed to play?

Edit. Sure it does. The law(rules) say I may drive a blue or green car. If the dealer(gw) only sells green ones I have permission to paint one blue if I prefer that over only what is provided. Again I'll ask. If you can't are you legally allowed to field any of the weapon/war gear options pointed out in any of the above posts even though the rules allow it?