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Looking for a little math hammer help.

Situation: I have 3 dev squads + scout in cover in some ruins. Who gives me more durability against long range fire. FNP or Bolster ruins? Also assume that the priest/tech marine is hanging out with the devestators.

It entirely depends on if your Armor save is allowed by whats shooting at you.

If it is, then FnP is better.

If its not allowed, the 3+ cover from the Ruins is going to be better.


Of course having both is best all together.

Something to check - I take it the scouts are staying in the ruins because they have camo cloaks? In which case, they will benefit better from Bolster Ruins - making it a 2+.
As Grey Templar said, otherwise it depends on what's firing at you.

How exactly are those squads split? Is it:
) 3 Devastator squads, and a Scout squad or
) 3 squads total of Devastators and Scouts (in which case, how many of each is it)?

3 - 5 man squads of devs, and 1 - 5 scout squad.

Consideration:
-how many common use weapons with 36" range are Ap3 or str8+?
- 4+ cover and FNP vs 3+ vs weapons str 7 and below

Here's some math.

Against 10 wounds in regular old 4+ cover, devs are losing 3.3 of them of they can take armor saves, and 5 of them if they can't.

In fortified terrain, they're taking 3.3 regardless of the Ap of the weapon.

With FNP, against weapons that don't ignore FNP, in regular cover, they are losing 2.2 if they can pass armor saves, and 3.33 if they are forced to use cover.

With FNP against weapons that DO ignore FNP, it's .33 if they can use their armor save, and .5 if they can't.

To summarize. FNP does absolutely nothing if your opponent can ignore it, and is a fair bit better if it doesn't. If your opponent CAN ignore FNP, then the reinforced cover is obviously going to be better against an ability that doesn't work, but, conversely, the reinforced terrain only works against Ap1 and Ap2 weapons.

So, the question is what are you more likely to be shot at by, weapons that are S8+ or weapons that are Ap3 or worse?

My guess is that FNP will get used more often.

Quick answer-
Against normal shooting (Bolter, heavy bolter, etc.): 3+ and FNP is 7/9 pass rate, 3+ cover is 6/9 pass rate, FNP is better.

Against AP 3 shooting at S7 or less (plasma mostly): 4+ cover and FNP is 2/3 pass rate. 3+ cover is 2/3 pass rate. Slight edge to FNP, as more dice rolled leads to greater probability of getting the expected result.

Against AP 3 shooting at S8+ (Krak, Battlecannons, etc.): 4+ cover with FNP denied is 3/6 pass rate, 3+ cover is 4/6 pass rate. Bolster is better.

Against the (very rare) AP 3 cover denying shot (Paskecutioner, Dark reaper exarch with tempest launcher, a few other things): FNP is a 1/3 pass rate. Bolster is a 0/3 pass rate. FNP is obviously better.


Do your devs get killed by torrent of fire or plasma cannons? Go with FNP.

Do your devs get killed by missile-fang spam? Go with Bolster.

Wanna drive your opponent nuts? Ally a TF cannon and take the sang priest. Bolster, FNP, and even more firepower to dump on your opponent.

And the key to all of this is that not all tables have ruins or ruins in your deployment (unless where you play always does), in which case FNP is always better.

Only if you are Vanilla marine bolster.

GK and BA bolster effects any piece of terrain now.

Thanks for all the input and logic. I could toss up further considerations but it seems FNP has a slight edge

Most weapons that are forcing you to make a cover save ignore FNP as well. (the exception being Plasma Weapons and Rending Assault Cannons.)

There's actually a fair bit of armor ignoring stuff that doesn't ignore FnP. Its not all battlecannons and demolisher cannons out there.

Are you a puny guardsman? A you a filthy Xenos scum? NO! You are a SPACE MARINE, you do not cower in the dirt like those lesser beings. place your devastators in open ground so that your opponent can more clearly see your glory! Laugh in his face when he shoots at you and tell him you shall know no fear, then charge at him with your devastators close combat is where true glory is won! (Shout "FOR THE EMPEROR!" alot).


P.S: Reequip your scouts with bolter and chainswords so you can purge the heretics with bolter and chainswords(you don't here anything in your codex like "sit in a bush and plink at guys with a sniper rifle!" do you?).

Humbaba wrote:Are you a puny guardsman? A you a filthy Xenos scum? NO! You are a SPACE MARINE, you do not cower in the dirt like those lesser beings. place your devastators in open ground so that your opponent can more clearly see your glory! Laugh in his face when he shoots at you and tell him you shall know no fear, then charge at him with your devastators close combat is where true glory is won! (Shout "FOR THE EMPEROR!" alot).


P.S: Reequip your scouts with bolter and chainswords so you can purge the heretics with bolter and chainswords(you don't here anything in your codex like "sit in a bush and plink at guys with a sniper rifle!" do you?).

I sense some sort of truth in this... Not sure where or how, but it's there.

Do all your marines have beards?

Well, he DID say Devastators and not Long Fangs, so I'm guessing no beards. Pity.

Given that there's more Devastators than Scouts, I'd say go with the Priest. If it were the other way round, the Techmarine would arguably be better, but 3 Devastator squads plus a Priest makes for a tough-to-kill chunk of firepower.

Are you factoring in the techmarine standing in front of the Devs with his 2+ save?

True, no... but that's only going to benefit one unit a turn.

A Devastators reach shall be without limit and his touch without mercy! Fire shall roar from his fingertips, but it shall consume him not!
Let the Devastator squad be thy blazing wrath, bringing the light of the emperor's justice to the darkest corners of the battlefield! Wherever he stands shall be his fortress of righteousness! He shall hold in his gift the fate of all who pass before his unblinking gaze!
ALL SHALL FEAR HIM AND HE SHALL FEAR NO ONE.

Tell your opponent that this is in the rules section for devastators and that therefore you can bring a free fortress for every devastator in your army. Furthermore inform your opponent that these fortresses move with each devastator because it says wherever he stands. model a bunch of fortresses and put a big sign saying FORTRESS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS on the front of each.

get a priest for FnP too. There problem solved.

P.S: To make this work you cannot blink during the game (bring eye-drops).

Hahaha, that's brilliant. Also:

ALL SHALL FEAR HIM

This totally means he has the Fear special rule as well, even against those who would normally be Fearless (it does say *all*). Of course, this means you should charge with your Devastators whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Correct devastators are so OP

Feel no pain shows up on a naked 3+ save guy.
Bolster shows up on a guy with a free S8 AP3 attack, and a 2+ armor save.

So not only do you get +1 to your cover save, but you can put that 2+ save hero on point to try and absorb some of the hits.

Of course, the priest also gives you furious charge, which shouldn't be ignored either.

-Matt