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I am looking everywhere in the 6th Ed rulebook to figure out how to interpret (in game) and so I can explain and not feel like im cheating, what cover save that I get, when say My friend Mike shoots my Ork boyz with his Marines, but he is shooting at the boyz that are placed behind a strung out wall of Grots/Gretchin. How does this mechanic in the game work?

Cheers and thank you.

Page 18 of the rule book is the rules for intervening models, basically 5+ cover

"INTERVENING MODELS
If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a 3rd unit (models not from the firer's unit, or from the target unit), it receives a 5+ cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain. Similarly, if a model fires through the gaps between models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover, even if it is completely visible to the firer. Note that this does not apply if the shots go over the unit rather than through it"

Page 18 BRB, this should answer your question.

So, would it have been a house rule then if we were playing it 4 up? Or was it 4+ in 5th? Does this make using Grots as a meat wall less effective? Or maybe just take more grots? lol

It was 4+ in 5th edition. Like most cover saves, it was toned down slightly for 6th.

Well, when i play against most of my friends, we use the understanding that if
Line of sight is questionable (you can barely see the model) then as a compromise and to be more realistic the save becomes 4+. Problem with grots is that they are very short so unless both the firer and target aren't head and shouldrs above them which it is likely that they won't grant you your cover saves, i had the same issue with the old nurglings untill they made them tall walls of portable cover saves.

True @ Olim, but nearly everyone ive read as far as footslogging ork boyz say to run Grots in front of them. So what is the point of this then?

HammersIR wrote:
True @ Olim, but nearly everyone ive read as far as footslogging ork boyz say to run Grots in front of them. So what is the point of this then?

Agreed, thats why the rule just makes it easy instead of using to much imagination. This counts for shooting through locked combats as well.

You need to run the Orks closer to the Grots, then you will likely get the save. If you let the Grots get too far ahead, then probably not.

Like most cover saves, it was toned down slightly for 6th.

More than slightly, 4+ is significantly better than 5+ (save half your models rather than 1/3. 4+ is in fact 50% better than 5+ cover).

Please note, as a general thing, I actually think cover is much better overall in 5th but it was much stronger in 4th where 4+ was ubiquitous.

@ blood and slaughter, i see what you say about it being a lot better, but your evidence uses the wonderful thing about statistics that is they can seem completely different depending on how they are interpreted, so i would have actually said that there is a 17% (rounded) difference between the two which means the chance of the save succeeding is that much higher. When as what you are saying is that it is 50% "better" which isn't the same as 50% more likely to pass your save.

Look. You save 3 models out of 6 with 4+ rather than 2 with 5+. That''s a 50% improvement. End of story.

You save 50% of the models more that you would have saved however you save 33% with a 5+ or 50% of the models with a 4+, 17% increase. As i said i agreed that you could phrase it that the improvement is 50% of the models you would have saved with the 5+, i am not disputing this, simply saying this is not as much of an improvement as you would be led to believe when saying it is significantly better. But anyway this is a minor point so if i have not convinced you not to worry, i won't argue this further.

 Blood and Slaughter wrote:
Look. You save 3 models out of 6 with 4+ rather than 2 with 5+. That''s a 50% improvement. End of story.

It was also 16.66% better in 5th ed by the numbers, both Olim and yourself are correct.

So say the grot line was a string of grots base to base. 2 inches in front of what I want to shield. I shud get the save. But if say thr grots were 12 inches up the board then I couldn't utilize thrm for the save?

The answer is, bend down and actually look. If the grots are physically in the way, then you get the cover save.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The answer is, bend down and actually look. If the grots are physically in the way, then you get the cover save.

That doesn't work as thoroughly as you imply as you can still get a cover save if you're firing through a two inch gap between models in one unit at a single model (like a Character). You may have clear LOS but you're still firing through a separate unit and thus the receiver (target) gets a cover save.

Yes, but bending down is still the way to determine if they are doing that. I just treat all models in the same unit as having invisible strings of blockage between them.

@HAmmersIR, that is likely to be correct (depending on the height of the firer and target) and this is because it is easier to see over a target when it is further from the object it is obstructed, here is a simplified diagram of the situation:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The one in the foreground can see over the smaller unit to be able to see all of the unit behind, where as the example in the background can't see all of the model without going through the intervening unit.

 Blood and Slaughter wrote:
Look. You save 3 models out of 6 with 4+ rather than 2 with 5+. That''s a 50% improvement. End of story.

And if that was the 'end' of the story... you might be right.

But in 6th you only need *1* model to be in cover from *1* firing model in order to get a cover save. In 5th you needed half of the models to be in cover from half of the firing models in order to get a cover save.