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col_impact wrote:
Looks like you can still use the Eternity Gate of a Monolith on the turn it arrives by Deep Strike as long as it is in the Living Tomb formation.

Just an attempt to get people to buy the Vault/Obelisk.
"We took away those cool abilities everyone liked on the Monolith... but look! You still get the drop pod function as long as you take this huge expensive model, too!"

 skoffs wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Looks like you can still use the Eternity Gate of a Monolith on the turn it arrives by Deep Strike as long as it is in the Living Tomb formation.

Just an attempt to get people to buy the Vault/Obelisk.
"We took away those cool abilities everyone liked on the Monolith... but look! You still get the drop pod function as long as you take this huge expensive model, too!"

Lol.

Well. It does mean that Jon Comacho's list is still formidable.

Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
I ended up going with 9 regular destroyers, 2 heavies and a lord to start. I figured I can always get another 3 heavies if I really want em later. Thanks for the feedback!

I just have a quick followup question. I was just gifted a destroyer cult to go along with the one that I bought. I now have double of what I quoted above. Is it worth building that many destroyers or should I keep some of them to trade for other things that I need. They are a gift so I would feel bad about dumping all of them. I've been going over it in my head and playing 1000 points of destroyers seems excessive. I also now have 2 d lord sprues as well. How much of this would you actually build and how much would you keep to sell/trade?

2 D/Lords sounds delishous

Double Destroyer Cult is not something that I would run in normal games. It sounds like fun though!

I actually want to try double DCult Decurion for my next tourney list. It's one of the best formations in the book imo (if not the best).

I would totally go to a 1k tournament with a single DCult.

So let me get this straight: you've got 24 Destroyers at the moment?
...
My god, the fun I could have with that... Double D-cult for daaaays.

[just threw together a 1850 list with a minimum Rec.Legion and MSU Double D.Cult. Looks absolutely brutal]

Too bad you wouldn't be allowed to run it at certain tournaments that restrict formations to one of each.

Okay, I am sold. I will keep and build all of them.

Actually, question for the class:
If you're running 2 Destroyer Lords and an Overlord together, what would be the best way to outfit them?
Also, who should be the Warlord?

I stuck the T.Arrow on the Overlord because BS5 with PE on a S10 AP1 shot is just hilarious for a first turn out of nowhere potential first blood, but who should carry the Veil/Shroud? Is there another relic that should be taken?

I would give the Destroyer Lords warscythes and one of them would get The Nightmare Shroud.
Might even give the other Destroyer Lord the Voidreaper.

The Overlord gets a Phase Shifter, maybe even a warscythe.

P.S.

Has anyone tried playing against the GSC with their necrons? If so, how did it go?

Ok, this is way overboard and kinda on the crazy side (550 points of crazy)
Destroyer Lord w/ Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Nightmare Shroud and a Warscythe (TANK)
Destroyer Lord w/Phase Shifter and Voidreaper (DPS)
Overlord w/Phase Shifter, Res Orb, Tachyon arrow (because I like your kind of silly) and The Veil of Darkness.

The other option is to throw the Solar Staff on the Overlord instead of the Veil. It's kinda 50/50 in my book.

You get a majority T6 unit, with a 2+/4++ and a 5+RP, and It Will Not Die with a 1 time ResOrb and 1 Time perfect Hit and Run.
6 S7, AP2 Armorbane (Half are also Fleshbane and Master Crafted) Preferred enemy attacks, and then some Staff of Light attacks too.

My only problem is that you aren't getting the crazy benefits of having Orikan the Diviner in the group. The boost to reanimation Protocols and reroll all saving throws of 1 (which is just plain boss). Oh... and him turning into a C'Tan at some point in the game.


Try the feels of this... totally spitballing, and I know it won't work in some areas.

Royal Court
Overlord (as above)
Orikan the Diviner
Vargard Oberyon

Destroyer Cult #1
Tank Destroyer Lord
3 Heavy Destroyers
3x3 Destroyers

Destroyer Cult #2
DPS Destroyer Lord
3 Heavy Destroyers
3x3 Destroyers

Now look at the Star.
It is still majority T6 (6, 6, 5, 5, and a 4)
You add all of Orikan's defensive buffs
You add another Warscythe and Orikan's Attacks

You would still have about 25 points to tweak in an 1850 list. You could probably cut some points off the Overlord (Phase Shifter, etc)

Stop giving DLords the Voidreaper over Overlords. Overlords are WS5 and therefore have the edge over DLords. If they're in the same unit, the Overlord is getting PE anyway, so now he's hitting on 3+ against most things, rerolling 1s and a single 2. Meanwhile, the DLords will almost always be hitting on 4s.

Preferrably with 2 DLords and an Overlord (aka Double DCult Decurion), you'd have one Tank DLord with 2+/4++ to soak wounds on his T6 in a unit with a Voidreaper Overlord (probably with Phase Shifter). The other DLord is basically wasted unless you really want 3 Res Orbs in one unit, so he's better off going in another unit of Warriors/Immortals/etc to give them Preferred Enemy and tank wounds for them (Phase Shifter, Res Orb, maybe Solar Staff).

Overlord - Voidreaper, Phase Shifter
DLord - Warscythe, 2+/4++
DLord - 4++, Res Orb, Solar Staff

The Solar Staff DLord is flex - he doesn't want to be with the combat dudes because he contributes nothing to Assault other than the Orb (and you can take on on the other two easily), but if you go against Alpha Strikes/shooting heavy he can pop in for a turn to Solar them.

This is how I'm planning on running mine, anyway. You can run two with Warscythes and put them in for a single power unit, but you're really missing out on spreading out the Preferred Enemy love, which honestly has felt more powerful on Warriors buffing their decent shooting and mediocre assault than it has in combat.

The thing about most combats is that it's a really tilted game right now. The difference between 2 and 3 Warscythes is pretty minor in most situations - against basic units like Tac Marines or vehicles, 2 is all you need to wipe it. Against Deathstars or dedicated Assault units, 3 will provide more damage output (unless they're Invisible in which case hahaha no), but you'll likely still lose the fight anyway unless you're running a massive Deathstar, at which point that second DLord is probably better off as Obyron or something anyway.

Just my experience on the matter.

Actually, Destroyer Lords make better use of the Voidreaper than the Nightmare shroud. Consider the following:
1. Most things that will ignore 2+ won't care about the T6 anyway, and T6 is already the majority in that supposed star.
2. The Destroyer Lord gets more chances for rerolls. Against the majority of infantry the Overlord is hitting on a 3+ compared to the 4+. However, that's fairly negligible and therefore PE + MC is likely to come up, and then you get your almost guaranteed wound or penetrate from the Cult bonus. Pretty sure someone already did math showing the Voidreaper being better on the Destroyer Lord too.
3. Destroyer Lords have more natural mobility and therefore, if they need to break off, one carrying a better weapon is necessary. An Overlord doesn't have any of that, and, if in a situation by themselves, they need the 2+ because of the difference of T5 and T6.

1) The point is that the DLord can just stand out in front. Since you can't choose the targets that get shot, you will have to plan for a mix of shooting on your tank character. A DLord with 2+ can take both the S10 (and even D) shooting
as well as small arms fire. An Overlord with 2+ can take small arms fire but has to Look Out anything S10 or D. A DLord with only 3+ will fall faster to small arms fire.

2) I would like to see the math, that doesn't sound quite right. "More chance for rerolls" is nice and all, but I'd rather just hit more anyway. Hitting on 3s rerolling to 3s is better than hitting on 4s rerolling to 4s in every situation and I don't see this being that different.

I could be wrong, but I don't see how hitting on 4+ with rerolls will ever be better than 3+ with rerolls.

3) I disagree. An IC by themselves wants to survive more than it wants to kill, and since small arms fire (and, you know, 100000 Scat Lasers) is a thing, 2+ is important. A single dude by themselves will rarely get free reign to just run around and kill things without getting shot.

And while the DLord with Voidreaper is pretty good, he's not exactly good enough to kill much by himself that he wouldn't beat anyway with a Warscythe.

Okay, so on the topic of who in this hypothetical Deathstar should be the Warlord, you'd want to go for the Overlord, right? (his reroll 1s Enhanced Reanimation Protocols thing extends to the Destroyer Lords as well, correct?)
If so, would you want to give HIM the Nightmare Shroud? (to make him harder to kill, with 2+/4++/4+++ & 6 ablative wounds)

1. The Overlord can just stand in the front too. PE on everything is more important than the Overlord themselves. The Destroyer Lords, even just one, are doing more for the list and are therefore more important to keep alive.
2. That is just how PE works. Assuming both have a regular Scythe, the Destroyer Lord hits 1.75 times compared to 2 for the Overlord. However, PE kicks in and then against any target without a ++ or below T6 the Destroyer Lord inflicts 1.7 wounds compared to the Overlord's 1.68.
So when you combine that with the bonus from the Destroyer Lord, he's always rerolling to wound (though PE guaranteed that the 2+ will wound 35/36 times) AND he gets a penetration bonus from his detachment. That's simply gruesome against a Knight.
3. T6 is already fine then. When an Overlord detaches, he NEEDS the 2+ becuase of the difference between T5 and T6.

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so on the topic of who in this hypothetical Deathstar should be the Warlord, you'd want to go for the Overlord, right? (his reroll 1s Enhanced Reanimation Protocols thing extends to the Destroyer Lords as well, correct?)
If so, would you want to give HIM the Nightmare Shroud? (to make him harder to kill, with 2+/4++/4+++ & 6 ablative wounds)

Enhanced Reanimation Protocols only affects the Reclamation Legion, so it does not affect the DLords. If you're running two DCults, you're not running a Deathstar unless you're doing what Anpu-adom said, at which point you're not a Decurion anyway so it doesn't matter.

I'm talking from the perspective of a Decurion with 2 DCults, which would not have a Star of any type because there's not enough there. The Overlord and DLord would go into a Warrior blob that goes forward, which plays the dual role of providing extra wounds for the characters while simultaneously having a decent troop unit (PE, rerolling RP of 1, having tanking models, possibly a Res Orb) for a pseudo-hero unit. Not a Deathstar, but just 10+ buffed dudes with two ICs that make it a strong midfield unit that can threaten with shooting and assault against many opponents.

If you're running a Star with two Destroyer Lords, you're doing something like Anpu-adom said, or you're running a Royal Court + Lychguard/Wraiths + Two DLords in a CAD. Which is a different story.

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so on the topic of who in this hypothetical Deathstar should be the Warlord, you'd want to go for the Overlord, right? (his reroll 1s Enhanced Reanimation Protocols thing extends to the Destroyer Lords as well, correct?)
If so, would you want to give HIM the Nightmare Shroud? (to make him harder to kill, with 2+/4++/4+++ & 6 ablative wounds)

While I understand the desire to keep your Warlord point, it is easier to keep that point if your Tank Destroyer Lord basically has a 2+ rerollable armor save, a 4+ Invulnerable Save, followed by 4+ reanimation protocols. (With Orikan, you get to reroll ones on the Invuln save too). Plus, as was pointed out earlier, your T6 tank is basically immune to instant death from Strength 10 weapons.
By the time the end of the game comes and you need to split off the destroyer lords, your Orikan will be rocking C'Tan Stats... beefy enough to tank what is needed there.

I see this replacing the Lychstar ONLY if you are taking Double Destroyer Cult formations (with Royal Court). I think that the killyness of so many warscythes in a Lychstar (plus the bonuses of the Decurion) make it the better all around Deathstar for Necrons.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. The Overlord can just stand in the front too. PE on everything is more important than the Overlord themselves. The Destroyer Lords, even just one, are doing more for the list and are therefore more important to keep alive.
2. That is just how PE works. Assuming both have a regular Scythe, the Destroyer Lord hits 1.75 times compared to 2 for the Overlord. However, PE kicks in and then against any target without a ++ or below T6 the Destroyer Lord inflicts 1.7 wounds compared to the Overlord's 1.68.
So when you combine that with the bonus from the Destroyer Lord, he's always rerolling to wound (though PE guaranteed that the 2+ will wound 35/36 times) AND he gets a penetration bonus from his detachment. That's simply gruesome against a Knight.
3. T6 is already fine then. When an Overlord detaches, he NEEDS the 2+ becuase of the difference between T5 and T6.

1) Yes, but the Overlord would have to Look Out Sir anything S10 or D. Which isn't a lot, but is worth considering in a list.

2) PE affects the entire unit. So if we're talking about the two of them together, the Overlord will still be better with it. If you're talking the two separately, then you would be correct. I'm considering the situation where the DLord and Overlord are acting out a Buddy Cop movie, so it's different math.

3) Probably, but why would you ever split an Overlord off by himself unless it's your last dire chance? I don't build my army for last dire chances, which is why I don't give my dudes Tachyon Arrows "just in case that single use gun with no Ignores Cover is the only thing that will win me the game". If you're splitting a dude off by himself, it's going to be the DLord, 100% of the time. And if he gets shot by Scat Lasers, he takes half as many wounds if he has 2+ as opposed to just 3+.

Assuming no Royal Court (not enough points to spare if running DDCD at 1850),
Two Destroyer Lords + an Overlord is still a fairly decent Deathstar.
(with one model carrying the Veil, one the Shroud, and the last one carrying whatever else might come in handy).

For who to run as Warlord,
- You can run the Overlord so he gets to reroll his own RP 1s for himself,
- Or you can run the Destroyer Lord and not have to worry about instant death.
... so who is the better bet?
(assume the Warlord will have the 2+)

Oki. I just picked up some Praetorians for kill teams-armed with Rods of the Covenant-and I'm wondering what to do with the last 60 points.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Oki. I just picked up some Praetorians for kill teams-armed with Rods of the Covenant-and I'm wondering what to do with the last 60 points.

Tomb Blades.
No contest.
... Though the question will be, how to outfit them: shields, scopes, or a 2:1 mix (can't take both upgrades on all three guys, that would be 66 points)

I think Nebulascopes might be best. 4+ Armor (with a 4+ Jink) is good against most things, and while there are some things that will punch right through that (Ignores Cover HB-3 shots, 2 hits, 1 wound) Reanimation Protocols will help with that. And cover is just too annoying to futz with.

Edit: Maybe give one both Shield Vanes and Nebulascope, another one Shield Vanes or Nebulascope, ane the last one nothing?

So:
5x Praetorians (Rods)
3x Tomb Blades (Scopes)
100 points.
...
Now you gotta figure out leader & specialists.

Leader... Hrm...

I think a Praetorian would be the best bet. T5 3+ instead of T5 4+, and Fearless.

As for specialists, I was thinking Hatred (on a Praetorian), Shred (on a Praetorian), and actually, I'll give one of the Tomb Blades Ignores Cover as a Specialist, allowing it to have Shield Vanes. (Or should I give Ignores Cover to a Praetorian?)

If you make one of the Tomb Blades the specialist that has ignore cover, that'll be 2 points saved.
So three guys with ignore cover, and one with 3+.

Ignores Cover Gauss Tomb Blades are the meta. Because Scouts with Camo Cloaks are the strongest option, and they directly counter Scouts in cover (while also being fast and tough themselves).

This came up in the Kill Team thread, but if you really wanted to dominate you'd go 9x Tomb Blades with Shields and Scopes (and one with Beamer to round it out to an even 200 'cause WHY NOT?)

This may have been covered in 158 pages of this thread, but I can't seem to find it:

Regarding MSS. Fear and Challenges both take place at "The start of the fight phase" so I am looking at wording for a priority. I figure since this is War40k it has already been argued to bits so maybe someone has a quick answer. Do I challenge the same turn I charge, and can I perform the fear test the same turn I challenge? Or do these occur on subsequent turns prior to fight phases? Currently we are playing where challenge is issued after charge before combat, but since MSS requires a challenge to provide fear, I am not sure if I am considered to have that at the start of the same phase I charge in. In short, can I charge -> challenge -> fear -> fight in the same turn using MSS?

If someone can clear that up it would be fantastic, I have a few opponents (Tau Farsight and Space Wolves) who have assault heavy Warlords and it would be nice to break their brains with bots.