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lash92 wrote:The Stryx looks interesting, but I'll have to do the math on it. I suppose you give him Krast relic + WLT?
Also claw or sword?
Ideasweasel wrote:I believe your best taking the claw.
Right. Lone Styrix with Krast WLT, Krast Relic, and Claw. No need for the Tradition; you are paying a lot for Armigers to get the CP and to change RR1s to RRFs; though if you plan to take them anyway, sure, why not.
Also, don't forget the Krast stratagem. 2x melee hits on hit rolls of 6; 3x for Chaos units.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/05 18:47:01
Yup haven't forgot about that one. Also synergieses quite good with the reroll 1's.
For those of you running drills + Sktarii: Could you give me a quick roundup about how you play them? Do you deploy the Drill T1 and hop out of it or do you deepstrike it T2?
Also Forgeworld choices for that one?
15 Dragoons seems a little bit excessive tbh ^^ I don't know on what kind of boards you are playing, but I wouldn't even have the space to move usefully.
I should also say, that while it may seem obvious, I am running it as stygies.
I had a game the other day against castellan/double crusader knight list and I just lined up at -2 to hit and won on objectives so I think it would also be a good board control list.
Not to mention if you saw any enemy fliers you would be boned, 3 jump captains are not enough to be reliable AA. If you can't catch the plane or they bite it early then you're just stuck with the enemy fliers being practically untouchable.
I'd say the second list is probably better, but yeah 15 Dragoons seems excessive. If you really want to run 15 you'll need a lot of fire support to deal with units in buildings, fliers, and anything you're not fast enough to chase down (eldar). Some Icarus Onagers wouldn't hurt for example, or something that can dig infantry out of cover, especially if you plan on ITC.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Suzuteo wrote: I think the right play now is to beta strike with Drills.
How so? While the Drills are decent units in their own right, using their subterranean assault means that their cargo won't be impacting the game until turn 3. I had imagined deploying them turn 1, then moving up the board and disembarking plasma Vanguard/Hoplites/Fulgerites on turn 2. This also adds to the target saturation of Dragoons, Dunecrawlers and Kastelan robots.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/06 10:54:18
You can disembark after the deepstrike, so they would could come in turn 2. But I'm kind of worried that this is a littie bit too late, given how brutal the game is atm.
lash92 wrote: You can disembark after the deepstrike, so they would could come in turn 2. But I'm kind of worried that this is a littie bit too late, given how brutal the game is atm.
I thought that subterranean assault happens at the end of the movement phase, at which time it's too late to choose the embarked unit to move and disembark? I'm not with my books right now though.
lash92 wrote: You can disembark after the deepstrike, so they would could come in turn 2. But I'm kind of worried that this is a littie bit too late, given how brutal the game is atm.
I thought that subterranean assault happens at the end of the movement phase, at which time it's too late to choose the embarked unit to move and disembark? I'm not with my books right now though.
"Subterranean Assault
During deployment, you can set up this model, along with any units embarked within it, underground instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases, this model can perform a subterranean assault – set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models. Any units embarked inside can then immediately disembark, but they must be set up more than 9" from any enemy models. Any models that cannot be set up because there is not enough room are slain."
TLDR: You can disembark immediately, but not closer than 9"
I happily stand corrected, thanks very much. Not sure how that escaped my attention. So that's great for Vanguard, not terrible for Hoplites but not great for Fulgerites. I need to put some thought into what sort of a list supports a couple of Drills nicely as well - Dragoons for sure, and not a Cawl gunline, but other than that I'm uncertain.
lash92 wrote: They have got 18" guns, which is more then enough most of the time.
Depends on what is happening. If the enemy is holding an objective you want to deploy closer and attempt to charge to grab it.
Paradoxically, if your enemy specializes in melee, you should also deploy closer and charge them. Not only because you might as well attack first if they are going to charge you the next turn anyway. But because it will be much, much worse if they get to choose how to pile in and consolidate. If you charge them and go base to base, they can no longer do any combat sliding. (Because you can only pile in and consolidate closer to the closest enemy model. If you are at 0" away, they literally cannot be closer and thus cannot make those CC moves.)
That being said, 9" charges are tough to pull off. 27.78% chance; 52.3% chance with a command reroll.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/06 19:19:35
why the Gallant for Taranis? wouldnt be the Krast stratagem better?
Is it worth for the Crusader the Raven gem with the gatling and RFC? On the Castellan of course dunno if its better for a single crusader with House Vulker
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 10:17:12
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
Suzuteo wrote: Paradoxically, if your enemy specializes in melee, you should also deploy closer and charge them. Not only because you might as well attack first if they are going to charge you the next turn anyway. But because it will be much, much worse if they get to choose how to pile in and consolidate. If you charge them and go base to base, they can no longer do any combat sliding. (Because you can only pile in and consolidate closer to the closest enemy model. If you are at 0" away, they literally cannot be closer and thus cannot make those CC moves.)
That being said, 9" charges are tough to pull off. 27.78% chance; 52.3% chance with a command reroll.
OTOH that is giving extra round of attacks to the enemy which could also mean death of your unit so lose 2 for price of 1.
Also I think your math on charge is off. Command reroll allows rerolling single dice. Not both. If you roll 6 and 1 you can roll the 1. If you roll 1 and 1 you are screwed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 10:44:46
Exalted Court: Exalted Court: 1 Extra Warlord Trait (-1CP)
Heirlooms of the Household: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom (-1CP)
Household Choice: House Krast, Questor Mechanicus
+ Lord of War +
Knight Gallant [20 PL, 367pts]: Character (Exalted Court), Character (Heirloom of the House), Heirloom: The Paragon Gauntlet, Meltagun, Reaper chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
Exalted Court: Exalted Court: 1 Extra Warlord Trait (-1CP)
Heirlooms of the Household: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom (-1CP)
Household Choice: House Krast, Questor Mechanicus
+ Lord of War +
Knight Gallant [20 PL, 367pts]: Character (Exalted Court), Character (Heirloom of the House), Heirloom: The Paragon Gauntlet, Meltagun, Reaper chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
may you guys got tipps for both lists or thougts what list run better? In list 1 i decided to go full Mars beacuse the last games i run a Stygies Battalion with 3 Dragoons but mhhh meh maybe i was playing worng but the dragoons died to early and did nothing....
In list 2 i got 67 point free, may you guys know how to fill?
Hope you can help me =)
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
tneva82 wrote: OTOH that is giving extra round of attacks to the enemy which could also mean death of your unit so lose 2 for price of 1.
Also I think your math on charge is off. Command reroll allows rerolling single dice. Not both. If you roll 6 and 1 you can roll the 1. If you roll 1 and 1 you are screwed.
Assuming the enemy is going to kill your unit anyway, there are two scenarios:
1a) You move and charge them. You attack first. They attack you with reduced numbers (maybe). Your troops die. They move next turn into the space your unit previously occupied.
1b) You move and charge them. You attack first. They attack you with reduced numbers (maybe). Your troops survive. They fight the next turn to finish them off.
2) You do nothing. They move and charge. They attack first. Your troops die.
Obviously, if you're backed up against your Robots, don't do #1. But in almost all other circumstances, it is best for your screening units to charge the enemy instead of waiting for them to come to you.
Please do the calculation yourself and tell me what the chance is then.
EDIT: Okay, sorry, that was a bit passive-aggressive. My educational background is in applied mathematics, especially stochastic math and computing, and I have been having a bad day.
There are 36 possible 2D6 rolls.
10/36 of these rolls are 9+
Of the remaining 26 failures:
1/36 have higher roll of 1, 0/6 chance to reroll 8+
3/36 have higher roll of 2, 0/6 chance to reroll 7+
5/36 have higher roll of 3, 1/6 chance to reroll 6+
7/36 have higher roll of 4, 2/6 chance to reroll 5+
6/36 have higher roll of 5, 3/6 chance to reroll 4+
4/36 have higher roll of 6, 4/6 chance to reroll 3+
Also, just saying, IMO, you never reroll a 3 or 4 when you want to make 9. AdMech is nice because you don't need to memorize that many odds for your Psychic table.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/11/07 23:02:10
Suzuteo, you're missing the scenario where you charge your opponent, they mulch your unit, and get anywhere from 3-9" free movement out of it (some units/armies get 6" consolidate abilities)
There are absolutely moments where you do NOT want to charge. I lost a game doing just that against an opponent Monday. Had a mild case of brain malfunction and ended up giving a unit of space wolf bikers the movement they needed to reach my knight easier and killed one of my main screening units for it at the same time.
I don't care if the screening unit lives or dies in and of itself. I care about the unit living long enough to screen something more important, which means usually the screen dies instead. Charging your opponent gives him a free phase to attack you that he normally would not have. By standing your ground you instead force him to shoot you and charge you braving your overwatch.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
MrMoustaffa wrote: Suzuteo, you're missing the scenario where you charge your opponent, they mulch your unit, and get anywhere from 3-9" free movement out of it (some units/armies get 6" consolidate abilities)
There are absolutely moments where you do NOT want to charge. I lost a game doing just that against an opponent Monday. Had a mild case of brain malfunction and ended up giving a unit of space wolf bikers the movement they needed to reach my knight easier and killed one of my main screening units for it at the same time.
I don't care if the screening unit lives or dies in and of itself. I care about the unit living long enough to screen something more important, which means usually the screen dies instead. Charging your opponent gives him a free phase to attack you that he normally would not have. By standing your ground you instead force him to shoot you and charge you braving your overwatch.
No, I haven't. They would have gotten that free move anyway. At least that free move would not be toward your Kastelans if you position the charge correctly. Furthermore, consider that you are denying them charge bonuses, the ability to pin a screening unit at 3 "corners" to prevent you from falling back, and the ability to "slide" around with pile in and consolidate. If you don't control the circumstances of the fight, there are so many more options available to your opponent.
Does it really need to be said that you shouldn't charge if it's clearly a bad idea? My point is that being aggressive with your screen is very often more beneficial than being passive because our Kastelans cannot move.
Don't ever charge Space Wolves. Lol.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/08 09:31:01
lash92 wrote: Sure, but why would you want to deploy your Skitarii closer?
We are not talking about Electro-Priests or other CQC units here...
Because Hoplites have 12” range on their guns, or to drop four plasmas exactly where you want them while shielding them turn 1.
but they move 6 and have assault weapons so you can advance and fire for 21.5" AVG
That doesn’t shield them first turn, however. Sometimes it’s more useful to have something off the board and ready to jump out and blast on request. 21.5” isn’t always enough either, especially when their intended target is behind LoS-blocking cover.
Well if you get T1 and go first you need atleast 24" to hit your target. My point isnt that they are perfect just that functionally their range is lot better than 12"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 00:27:16
Moving this out of Army Lists and back into this thread.
Been doing a lot of thinking, and I keep hitting on lists that basically combine a Cawlstar, a Guard screen, and a modest anti-tank component. This is because we're in a really scary high-slow situation. You have ridiculously tough big units like Castellans and tellyportin' Nauts, but also swarms of Nids and Boyz.
First idea is to cut one Kastelan to introduce Straken, Mini Priest, and a fourth infantry squad. It probably handles swarms well, but it doesn't have the ability to reach out and threaten your opponent.
Spoiler:
Blood Angels Battalion Detachment - 439
HQ - 274 1x Captain w/ Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer, Stormshield, Relic: Angel's Wing, Death Visions of Sanguinius
1x Mephiston - Powers: Quickening, Shield of Sanguinius, Wings of Sanguinius
Heavy Support - 810 5x Kastelan Robot - 15x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
Fast Attack - 204 3x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
Total: 1997 points 14 CP (-2)
Second idea goes with a BA deathball.You have the Smash Captain, the DC, both of which are massively improved in terms of both wound output and CP efficiency by the Sanguinary Priest and Lemartes. This means you don't have to rely too much on the Kastelans to kill Castellans; you can actually focus on removing their ability to score by gunning down their Helverins, Gallants, etc. I also like the flexibility with how it has multiple ways to threaten a Castellan while still having an anti-swarm option.
Would I be correct in my reading of the Stygies infiltration strat(under FAQ2. You pay the CP to deploy. So you cant stick a blob of dragoons down, roll poorly and not get first turn, and then decide you don't want to move the 9" now. And in fact you dont want to waste the CP and do the move. its already done yeah?
Is that correct? If so it would be so much better if it allowed for you to assess if you want to deploy forward or not.
Admech & Deathwatch
