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Is it just one rulebook like what we have now or was it a series of books? I'm thinking of picking up a set of the rules because someone was telling me that 2nd ed was the cat's pajamas.

There are three you'll need. The core rulebook, the wargear book. and the Dark Millenium book.

The main three from the base game were:
-Rulebook
-Wargear book
-Codex Imperialis (which if i understand it right, contained codex lists for all the races until their own books came out)

Then Dark Millenium was the expansion,

as well as the full codex book for each race.

-Tyranids
- Ultramarines (codex Space Marines)
- Space Wolves
- Sisters of Battle
- Angels of Death (both Dark Angels and Blood Angels)
-Imperial Guard
-Eldar
-Orks

Necrons had a White Dwarf list in 2nd as well. If I remember correctly, they were so broken they farted cheese.

djones520 wrote:
Necrons had a White Dwarf list in 2nd as well. If I remember correctly, they were so broken they farted cheese.

Yeah. They had so few model options that they were all made to be crazy powerful to compensate. I don't think they were released to be used as a regular army though. More of a special scenario type of force.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The main three from the base game were:
-Rulebook
-Wargear book
-Codex Imperialis (which if i understand it right, contained codex lists for all the races until their own books came out)

Then Dark Millenium was the expansion,

Close. Codex Imperialis contains descriptions and rules for most of the original units in the game, but the actual army lists were in a separate booklet (often known as the 'Black Codex') that came with the starter set.


As well as the books, you also need the vehicle datafaxes, which were separate cards each with the rules for a single vehicle. Some of these came with the starter, more came with Dark Millenium, and a few were released with White Dwarf. Not all of the vehicles had full rules published in their respective codex, which means that those cards are more or less required in order to use those vehicles.

Likewise, the starter and Dark Millenium came with a whole crateload of cards (Wargear, Strategy, all of the Psychic Powers and the psychic deck) that, while not strictly absolutely necessary to play, leave the game a little bare if you don't have them.

Cats Pajamas my keester.

That's a lotta stuff. I'll have to start the search...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is this one of the things I'm looking for?

http://www.amazon.com/Warhammer-000-Rulebook-Games-Workshop/dp/1841540005

Unfortunately not. That's the 3rd ed one.

It's this one you'll need. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=2nd+edition+40k+rulebook&_sacat=0

I wouldn't bother; I jumped from 2nd to 5th (now 6th) and the game is much better now.

 djphranq wrote:
Is it just one rulebook like what we have now or was it a series of books? I'm thinking of picking up a set of the rules because someone was telling me that 2nd ed was the cat's pajamas.

It wasn't. The game has taken major strides forward since then. The only bonus to 2nd edition armies is that they are cheaper because they have half the models in them. Somewhere around 4th edition they slashed the costs of everything by about 50% to encourage bigger armies and more mini sales. Anyone who says 2nd is a great game is looking back through their rose colored glasses. Zero controls on army build content at all, displacer fields with 3+ saves that then teleported you out of the way. Stacked saving throws enabling a special marine character to have their original 2d6 terminator armor saving throw *and* a 3+ unmodifiable displacer field saving throw really sucked as well. Those are just little gems of the supposed cat's pajamas. No thanks. I was really happy when the Force Organization chart finally appeared. List building up to that point was so open ended it was so hard to prepare for a game. I got tired of preparing to play army X that my opponent said they were playing and have it turn out to be a single character/HQ and squad from army X supported by half a dozen special characters from other codex books and some nasty specialized units from those lists which were not mentioned at all before the game. Wouldn't have bothered me if people would have just been honest about it. Today it would be the equivilent of saying that you are playing Imperial guard and not bothering to mention those grey knights terminator allies you also have. Such an ommission could have a big impact on how the game plays...

Stick with 6th edition. It just isn't worth the annoyance to try and track down all the 2nd edition books only to find that you have almost no one to play against with them anyway.

Skriker

If you haven't played 2nd edition before, my recommendation would be to download and read the rules for Necromunda and Inquisitor, which both run off of very similar rules sets, and see if either of those games give you what you're looking for, before going out and actually spending money on something you may or may not like.

2nd edition was fun, but it had its own fair sure of problems, and if I'd had a kid at the same time I played my last game of 2nd, they'd be old enough to be attending high school. If I really wanted to I could dig out the books, but I've enjoyed the subsequent incarnations enough that it's never been worth the effort.

 djphranq wrote:
someone was telling me that 2nd ed was the cat's pajamas.

Do you like arguing about ambiguous or broken rules (or both)?

Do you like games in which one single, infantry sized model kills almost the entirety of the enemy army?

Would you like a one thousand point game (in today's point values) to take upwards of three hours?

Would you like the outcome of most games determined long before any die roll is made?

If not, 2nd edition may not be the game for you.

I wouldn't really call that a fair evaluation, because if you're playing it these days then you're probably playing it amongst a fairly small group of friends who'd be able to settle on how they want to work through whatever issues are encountered in an amicable fashion.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Would you like a one thousand point game (in today's point values) to take upwards of three hours?

We used to play 2000 points as standard in 2nd edition, and games generally took 2 to 3 hours.

Would you like the outcome of most games determined long before any die roll is made?

Some people will tell you that that's pretty much been the case in every edition of 40K...

I probably wouldn't play it... I'd just love to see the rules and stuff for it (I don't play much of anything nowadays... I just read rulebooks/army books and make lists). Most folks around here are WM/H, Malifaux, or Infinity type folk now anyway.

In regards to 6th... I just only took the plastic wrapping off it yesterday. I haven't even opened the cover yet. I'll probably give it a glance tonight and, who knows, maybe it'll be cool enough that I won't want to bother with whatever 2nd ed had.

Do you like arguing about ambiguous or broken rules (or both)?

- Not really, but that's 40k for you!

Do you like games in which one single, infantry sized model kills almost the entirety of the enemy army?

- No, which is why I still play 2nd ed. Single models rarely kill more than half a dozen enemies in any game.

Would you like a one thousand point game (in today's point values) to take upwards of three hours?

- We normally play 1500 points in about an hour and a half.

Would you like the outcome of most games determined long before any die roll is made?

- Again, no. Which is why I still play 2nd ed.

Luckily for me I don't even have to grab my rose tinted glasses because I play 2nd edition almost every week. It seems just fine for our group, it's fun to play and quite tactical. I guess I just like the memorable games that result. That, plus you can set people on fire!

 obithius wrote:

Do you like games in which one single, infantry sized model kills almost the entirety of the enemy army?

- No, which is why I still play 2nd ed. Single models rarely kill more than half a dozen enemies in any game.

Do you not use Psykers? Nearly any of them would destroy most of an army all alone. My Eldar army was almost entirely a Farseer, and stuff standing in front of that Farseer who were there to absorb wounds (the other stuff was Wraithguard for Guiding).

 obithius wrote:


Would you like the outcome of most games determined long before any die roll is made?

- Again, no. Which is why I still play 2nd ed.

I have a Swooping Hawk exarch with a Vortex grenade and the Assassin mission. You have anything without a vehicle and Dawn Raid mission. I win, there's nothing you can do about it.

I'm playing Imperial Guard; you draw Virus Outbreak. You win, there's nothing I can do about it.

Etc.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Do you not use Psykers? Nearly any of them would destroy most of an army all alone.

...unless the enemy army also includes a psyker...


Really, the only characters that were hugely over the top were Bloodthirsters and Eversor Assassins. The rest were nasty, but could still be brought down by weight of numbers, or a lucky lascannon to the head.

I have a Swooping Hawk exarch with a Vortex grenade and the Assassin mission.

I have a character with a Vortex Detonator. Booyah!

I'm playing Imperial Guard; you draw Virus Outbreak. You win, there's nothing I can do about it.

Virus Outbreak was FAQd out of the game when GW realised just how broken it was. Most players had already stopped including it in the Strategy deck by that point anyway.

It will just me and my cats playing. They're bad at making armies... when they aren't eating them.

Some of the vehicle kits also started including the datafaxes in their instruction manuals.

The Eldar ones, did - up until 3rd edition (2nd ed datafaxes, that is).
Still have my Vyper, Falcon and Fire prism ones (from the instructions - not the cards from the relevant WD issues when those models came out in 2nd ed).

We ditched the virus outbreak card long ago, and we don't really use the vortex grenade either.
I don't think the swooping hawk situation would come up either, as it wouldn't be a fun game for either player. I dunno, it depends how you want to play I guess.
As for the uber character thing, there are several counters. You don't have to move your models into combat if it charges you, so it will usually only be killing one a turn. It's fun to set them on fire too :-)
Vehicle datafaxes are harder to find these days, but most are available in various pdf documents. Try here:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/40k2nd/
There was also a vehicle design bit in Dark Millennium to create different vehicles. Or just do it yourself!
Other than allowing you to use more models (and allowing GW to sell more models) I don't think 3rd - 6th edition improved the game for me. It's just different. Most of the arguments against 2nd can be applied to the current game- super characters, unbalances armies, poorly understood rules etc...
I'm happy with 2nd, and so are a lot of people I know. It's a lot cheaper too!

DarknessEternal wrote:

 djphranq wrote:
someone was telling me that 2nd ed was the cat's pajamas.

Do you like arguing about ambiguous or broken rules (or both)?
Do you like games in which one single, infantry sized model kills almost the entirety of the enemy army?
Would you like a one thousand point game (in today's point values) to take upwards of three hours?
Would you like the outcome of most games determined long before any die roll is made?
If not, 2nd edition may not be the game for you.

Well, how we play is like this. The super character with jump pack charges, engaging one model. Sometimes he gets two, but usually one. He'll kill that model, and has a 2" follow up move to engage another. End of turn. On my turn the rest of my squad move away from the super character, leaving him with his (now broken) engaged victim. Repeat.
I never bother taking them anymore as they can hardly ever make their points back unless you send them after vehicles or something. Plus if you make a habit of bringing expensive heroes guaranteed your enemy will break out the stasis grenades/graviton guns/vortex grenades to make you behave.

 Portugal Jones wrote:
I wouldn't really call that a fair evaluation, because if you're playing it these days then you're probably playing it amongst a fairly small group of friends who'd be able to settle on how they want to work through whatever issues are encountered in an amicable fashion.

We ultimately did that with the original necromunda rules. There were a bunch of holes where things were not explained so we came up with multiple options, discussed, voted and implemented the winners and went from there. Made a BIG difference to not have to stop everything to argue about the same stupid rules over and over and over again.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 djphranq wrote:
I probably wouldn't play it... I'd just love to see the rules and stuff for it (I don't play much of anything nowadays... I just read rulebooks/army books and make lists). Most folks around here are WM/H, Malifaux, or Infinity type folk now anyway.

In regards to 6th... I just only took the plastic wrapping off it yesterday. I haven't even opened the cover yet. I'll probably give it a glance tonight and, who knows, maybe it'll be cool enough that I won't want to bother with whatever 2nd ed had.

That is a whole different direction then. Certainly worth a read then to at least see how the rules have changed through the various editions of the game, and not necessarily in better ways. GW has this annoying habit of not improving and enhancing their rules so much as making them different in each edition. After all by 6h edition in 40k and 8th edition in WFB these games should be the most rock solid, tightest, clearest and well written games on the market, but the latest versions of each ruleset still have just as many holes and issues as the previous versions. Sigh...

Skriker

 obithius wrote:
Well, how we play is like this. The super character with jump pack charges, engaging one model. Sometimes he gets two, but usually one. He'll kill that model, and has a 2" follow up move to engage another. End of turn. On my turn the rest of my squad move away from the super character, leaving him with his (now broken) engaged victim. Repeat.
I never bother taking them anymore as they can hardly ever make their points back unless you send them after vehicles or something. Plus if you make a habit of bringing expensive heroes guaranteed your enemy will break out the stasis grenades/graviton guns/vortex grenades to make you behave.

Ah the Vortex grenade, good time
"I don't care what your save is, its good by from him and good by from you"

Aaaah, 2nd edition....fond memories, but I will readily admit the game was pretty wonky at times. Orks didn't play anything like they do now (as their HtH ability was mediocre at best), Marines not from the SW chapter were often considered a joke (overpriced, underperforming), and Codex creep was extremely ripe even in its infancy. Every new codex came with a whole slew of new special rules. Probably the worst experience was playing 2nd edition with somebody who was bad at math....all those modifiers and charts are the main reason games lasted 6+ hours.

And my personal favorite, the 2nd edition "My entire army is going into overwatch!" deathmatch, WHO MOVES FIRST!!

Oddly enough, 6th edition is the spiritual successor to 2nd edition. The return of overwatch (a form of it anyway), the increase in power for ICs and especially Psykers, and gobs and gobs o' special rules (although Universal now). Its actually gotten some of my friends who refused to play 3rd-5th edition interested again.

 rubicant99 wrote:
I wouldn't bother; I jumped from 2nd to 5th (now 6th) and the game is much better now.

Ditto. Granted there was a large 12 year space between the changes but I still remember even larger imbalances in armies and really vague rules about certain things.