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In a game last night I had a squad of Termis scatter and land dead square on the zooming flyers base, infact it was right on the clear stand. Now I don't believe this causes a mishap, but am not sure.

We ended up moving them to a point 1" away from the base, but actully I think it should have been left where it ended up scattering at.

Comments??

Yep, if the flyer is zooming you ignore the base for all intents and purposes.

That should've triggered a mishap. Rules wise it was no different to scattering on top of a Land Raider. I see your thinking with the flier being in mid air and all, but you should have rolled.

Actually yeah, nothing in the flyer rules grants an exception. Even though the flyer base is ignored in most cases, it'd still trigger a miss-hap.

Until GW actually creates hovering models (lazy bums). The rules will probably stay that way.

The fact of the matter is that you scattered to within 1" of an enemy model so a mishap must happen. Flyer or not the rules are clear on this.

Yeah, bases are always defined/treated as part of the model. You hit the base, its a mishap.

Camarodragon wrote:
In a game last night I had a squad of Termis scatter and land dead square on the zooming flyers base, infact it was right on the clear stand. Now I don't believe this causes a mishap, but am not sure.

We ended up moving them to a point 1" away from the base, but actully I think it should have been left where it ended up scattering at.

Comments??

If it was the enemy's zooming flyer, then you must obey the 1" of an enemy model restriction
However, if it was a friendly flier, then you are able to ignore the base for the purposes of movement provided that you can fit the terminators wholly underneath the flyer model.
Don't recall the page number exactly, I believe it was around 70, don't have BRB access at the moment (its under the Flyers unit type section).

Along that same line and out of curiosity and this came up in a game recently,
Lets say you are playing the mission Big Guns Never tire or w.e it is called where the Heavy Support choices score.
Is a zooming flyer able to score?

Flyer rules say that you ignore the base for most purposes.
The rules say you measure from the objective to the model.
The Mishap rules say you mishap within 1" of an enemy model.

I think this thread has come to the conclusion that the flight base is indeed part of the model
itself, so would you all agree that zooming flyers, say a Doom Scythe can score in this mission?

I also don't have the book nearby, but as far as I can remember about flying rules, friendly flyer bases are just there to keep the model in the air, you ignore them. You can move on top of them, move through them, etc. However, I didn't see anything that allowed you to be within 1" of an enemy flyer base, move through it, etc.

So, for deep strike, I'd think you would only mishap if you were within 1" of the base. If it was a friendly, you don't mishap. (Isn't there a SM chapter that can disembark from flyers with deep strike rules, that would be dangerous if a hit would auto-mishap because you are underneath the model and can't help but touch the base.)

As far as taking objectives, since you ignore the base for friendly models, I think the base would be ignored for taking an objective.

I don't think there is a differentiation made between friendly being ignored and enemy not being ignored.

If you ignore the base for objective taking you would have to ignore it for deepstriking as both rules refer to models. The reverse of this would also true, if you want the base to cause mishaps it would have to be scoring.

AHH.. I see the RAW upon re-reading it. but do not like it.

That means a Flyer can fly itself over to an objective and effectively "block" enemy troops from securing that objective because of it base.

No different than any other vehicle.

Quite a bit different because you cant assault the flyer, and cant even get within an inch of its stand. And the some flyers can move 72" in a turn..

It would be extraordinarily difficult to maneuver a zooming flyer so it was on an objective at the right time. If you manage it you deserve to capture/contest the objective.

Camarodragon wrote:
Quite a bit different because you cant assault the flyer, and cant even get within an inch of its stand. And the some flyers can move 64" in a turn..

Which means they will no longer be blocking the objective after a turn since a zooming flyer must move at least 18" per turn. Unless it is hovering in which it can be assaulted.

 Captain Antivas wrote:

Camarodragon wrote:
Quite a bit different because you cant assault the flyer, and cant even get within an inch of its stand. And the some flyers can move 64" in a turn..

Which means they will no longer be blocking the objective after a turn since a zooming flyer must move at least 18" per turn. Unless it is hovering in which it can be assaulted.

Though, why are we so certain that the flyer rules for ignoring the base don't take precedent?
The Deep Strike Rules say to mishap within an inch in all cases(General), The flyer rules say to ignore its base except in two scenarios(specific).

While models on top of models is likely not intended it may in fact be RAW.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Captain Antivas wrote:

Camarodragon wrote:
Quite a bit different because you cant assault the flyer, and cant even get within an inch of its stand. And the some flyers can move 64" in a turn..

Which means they will no longer be blocking the objective after a turn since a zooming flyer must move at least 18" per turn. Unless it is hovering in which it can be assaulted.

Top of turn 5, the flyer gets to the objective.
Bottom of turn 5, you can't assault, can't kill the thing.

Game ends.


See how it's slightly different?

The only way that happens is if the Flyer is EXACTLY 18" or 36" away from an objective AND it can make the 90 degree pivot.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The only way that happens is if the Flyer is EXACTLY 18" or 36" away from an objective AND it can make the 90 degree pivot.

Why exactly? Why can't it be 19"?

 azreal13 wrote:
It would be extraordinarily difficult to maneuver a zooming flyer so it was on an objective at the right time. If you manage it you deserve to capture/contest the objective.

I pulled that off last week in an apocalypse game, my opponent had left a squad he was sure could run the last turn over to an objective so I flew 3 of my fliers to block the only way he could make it there. We were doing a fixed 5 turn game because of time issues so I knew it was the last turn, would have tied the game but I forgot to move a squad and lost, I could have also won it if I had killed 1 more khorne berserker and not forgot to move.

rigeld2 wrote:

Top of turn 5, the flyer gets to the objective.
Bottom of turn 5, you can't assault, can't kill the thing.

Game ends.

See how it's slightly different?

Please cite the rulebook page where vehicles can only be destroyed by assaulting them.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Captain Antivas wrote:

Top of turn 5, the flyer gets to the objective.
Bottom of turn 5, you can't assault, can't kill the thing.

Game ends.

See how it's slightly different?

Please cite the rulebook page where vehicles can only be destroyed by assaulting them.

FTFY. You quoted the wrong person there.

DarknessEterna wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Top of turn 5, the flyer gets to the objective.
Bottom of turn 5, you can't assault, can't kill the thing.

Game ends.

See how it's slightly different?

Please cite the rulebook page where vehicles can only be destroyed by assaulting them.

Thanks for the strawman!
See the comma? It implies that's not the only way to kill it - or I meant it to.
For many armies assault is the best way to kill vehicles. An un-assaultable, hard to shoot vehicle is far, FAR harder to kill than a heavily armored assaultable, easy to shoot vehicle.
Which was my point.

See how they're slightly different?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Happyjew wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Top of turn 5, the flyer gets to the objective.
Bottom of turn 5, you can't assault, can't kill the thing.

Game ends.

See how it's slightly different?

Please cite the rulebook page where vehicles can only be destroyed by assaulting them.

FTFY. You quoted the wrong person there.

He didn't really - the new awesome quoting system confused you.

They really aren't that hard to kill guys....I always lose a couple, and it's not like you can keep them pointed in one place, you're getting 2 turns max shooting at a target before it moves or you get shot to hell. (6's DO happen, especially twin linked weapons)

Isn't there a paragraph on what types of models can contest? I don't flyers are on that list.

Yes the flyer would typically not be a denial unit unless the mission said it could, but the point is, the Flyer's base can keep you from scoring simply because you cannot physically get close enough to the objective to score.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The only way that happens is if the Flyer is EXACTLY 18" or 36" away from an objective AND it can make the 90 degree pivot.

Why exactly? Why can't it be 19"?

Because as the Flyer movement is written they cannot move any distance between those 2 numbers. They MUST move either 18" or 36" exactly.

No, they cannot move under 18" while zooming but can move anywhere up to 36.

Grey Templar wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:The only way that happens is if the Flyer is EXACTLY 18" or 36" away from an objective AND it can make the 90 degree pivot.

Why exactly? Why can't it be 19"?

Because as the Flyer movement is written they cannot move any distance between those 2 numbers. They MUST move either 18" or 36" exactly.

Incorrect. You're misreading the flyer movement rules.