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 sebster wrote:
Yeah, I remember that study as well. It explained a lot about dakka, and especially how threads tend to get worse and worse as they go on - the opinions get more strident, especially among whichever side happens to be losing.

So, Sebster made this observation in a different thread. I don't want to offtrack it, so a new one, perhaps, is in order. I was thinking that in many threads here, maybe most, one side states an opinion and maybe some facts that support it, and an opposing team forms and presents their own evidence, or at least, attacks the original idea or supporting evidence. No one really ever seems to get convinced of anything.

And in a way, it kinds of makes me wonder what the point of a discussion forum like the OT even is for, if so few people can be swayed, if any. It's just like... intellectual masturbation, really. And while I suppose there is nothing inherently wrong with that, I wonder if other people feel the same way or if they don't.

Have you ever had your opinion on a matter, news story, or political position changed by a topic we discussed here in the OT? If so, who and what?

not here on dakka, but I have become a definitely more female friendly, people I know have recently educated me to just how bad the gap between men and women is, and the plight of other oppressed peoples, such as the mentally ill, the poor, and the transgendered and those who aren't of a heterosexual nature. I have always been rather "meh" about most of these topics, but now I have seen just how screwed up things are, and that These are all near and dear to my heart, as I have these kind of misfit friends, who I care quite a lot about, and it has caused me to be more vocal and educated about my opinions.

A certain limey poster changed my opinion on abortions a while back here.

I don't change my mind. On anything. I just enjoy pointing out why other people are wrong.

I think I legitimately participated in one such thread many months back, and have ever since refused to do it again.

Now I just content myself to a witty remark or similar, as I did in the atheist/theist thread that recently got locked. I can proudly say I was the last person to be quoted.

In the overwhelming majority of such threads, no one will be persuaded to change sides, or even stop to reflect on the merits of the opposing viewpoint. Then again, how many people do you speak to over a few pints suddenly change their minds about their belief system if you're persistent enough?

It is what it is, and I guess people just enjoy this...intellectual masturbation. To each their own.

Kanluwen changed my mind on the Trayvon Martin case. Not trying to refire the debate, just pointing out an example. I pounced on him because of my initial mistaken impressions of what happened, but as time went on and more facts started to come out, it because clear that his arguments were actual totally reasonable, the case was way less cut and dried then it initially appeared, and I had just been kind of a dick, really. In any event, my opinion has definitely changed on that.

One time I commented in a thread without reading the OP.

The resulting verbal castration taught me to always read the OP.

So I guess I have learned stuff from Dakka.

I like hearing what other people have to say (I know I probably come off as a total dick though ). Sometimes I will argue against something solely because there's something in my head I'm trying to work out or cause I'm curious what another poster will say.

There's only a few subjects I'd actually dedicate some real effort into arguing for, history, theology, and my eternal unending hate of mega publishers

My beliefs have changed since I first posted here. Several posters, such as IIRC Sebster and Dogma, have argued me in to a corner a few times and made me rethink my position on things. I've also had more education since I first joined as well.

That said, I'm notoriously stubborn, so it's not like it likely feels like there's much of a difference.

I don't know if Dakka has actually made me change my mind on anything, but I do try to actually debate (share my thoughts and listen to yours) instead of the usual internet version of debate (yelling at you about how I am right while refusing to listen to anything you say).

 Ouze wrote:
Have you ever had your opinion on a matter, news story, or political position changed by a topic we discussed here in the OT? If so, who and what?

I change my views more often now than I did in the past, I don't post here often anymore (mainly because I usually don't have anything new to add to the conversation) but I do a lot of lurking.

 Ouze wrote:

 sebster wrote:
Yeah, I remember that study as well. It explained a lot about dakka, and especially how threads tend to get worse and worse as they go on - the opinions get more strident, especially among whichever side happens to be losing.

So, Sebster made this observation in a different thread. I don't want to offtrack it, so a new one, perhaps, is in order. I was thinking that in many threads here, maybe most, one side states an opinion and maybe some facts that support it, and an opposing team forms and presents their own evidence, or at least, attacks the original idea or supporting evidence. No one really ever seems to get convinced of anything.

And in a way, it kinds of makes me wonder what the point of a discussion forum like the OT even is for, if so few people can be swayed, if any. It's just like... intellectual masturbation, really. And while I suppose there is nothing inherently wrong with that, I wonder if other people feel the same way or if they don't.

Have you ever had your opinion on a matter, news story, or political position changed by a topic we discussed here in the OT? If so, who and what?

No. In most instances I have observed here on Dakka, also no. The current OT board is in my opinion a worthless use of forum space that serves only to make Dakka users mad at each other and enable posters to skyrocket their post counts into the ten-thousands by sheer weight of derp. I believe that this OT board currently only detracts from Dakka overall.

I'd actually venture that the level of discourse in OT political and religious threads is superior to that of the 40k and WHFB forums.

 ph34r wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 sebster wrote:
Yeah, I remember that study as well. It explained a lot about dakka, and especially how threads tend to get worse and worse as they go on - the opinions get more strident, especially among whichever side happens to be losing.

So, Sebster made this observation in a different thread. I don't want to offtrack it, so a new one, perhaps, is in order. I was thinking that in many threads here, maybe most, one side states an opinion and maybe some facts that support it, and an opposing team forms and presents their own evidence, or at least, attacks the original idea or supporting evidence. No one really ever seems to get convinced of anything.

And in a way, it kinds of makes me wonder what the point of a discussion forum like the OT even is for, if so few people can be swayed, if any. It's just like... intellectual masturbation, really. And while I suppose there is nothing inherently wrong with that, I wonder if other people feel the same way or if they don't.

Have you ever had your opinion on a matter, news story, or political position changed by a topic we discussed here in the OT? If so, who and what?

No. In most instances I have observed here on Dakka, also no. The current OT board is in my opinion a worthless use of forum space that serves only to make Dakka users mad at each other and enable posters to skyrocket their post counts into the ten-thousands by sheer weight of derp. I believe that this OT board currently only detracts from Dakka overall.

I disagree with you and this post made me very angry at the poster

/+1 to post count.

Not really, arguments we have here. Discourse for the most part we do not.

It's a lot like this really:

There are several posters who frequently make at an absolute minimum, well thought posts, if not ones that I would agree with. There others who post little more than nonsensical hate and others who post gobblygook, but as most of do not speak goblin it is difficult to assess the quality of their position.

 ph34r wrote:
enable posters to skyrocket their post counts into the ten-thousands by sheer weight of derp.

What a delightful visual.

Other than Melissia, does any regular OT poster have tens of thousands of posts?

 Amaya wrote:
Other than Melissia, does any regular OT poster have tens of thousands of posts?

Alpharius.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
Other than Melissia, does any regular OT poster have tens of thousands of posts?

Alpharius.

Frazzled does as well, but I think he keeps wienerdogs chained to his keyboard to inflate his numbers.

Alpharius only posts in the comic books thread.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled is like the crazy uncle of the OT forum.

I've learned that I am actually much more pedantic than I had thought, as evidenced by the behavior of all the fictional characters I have dreamed up recently (you lot).

 d-usa wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
Other than Melissia, does any regular OT poster have tens of thousands of posts?

Alpharius.

Frazzled does as well, but I think he keeps wienerdogs chained to his keyboard to inflate his numbers.

Lets face it, Frazz's dogs could probably make a more coherent post than allot of people.

To be honest I find allot of OT is fine, as long as you avoid religion. Guns can also be a problem at times. Other than that I think there generally is a healthy debate. The problem comes where we have a Dakka Godwin rule. At some point someone will manage to link almost anything to religion one way or another then the topic will very quickly, and predictably, split in to two sides throwing insults.

I think it is much better than other area, for example news, where it is only a matter of about 10 posts on almost anything and someone will post some sort of GW hate rant. Or background where someone will jump in to a discussion about something and start talking "in character", such as a discussion on the different renegade legions someone will inevitably jump in with "U shud all die heretic scum" or anything about the golden throne someone will jump in with "thats what you get for worshiping a corpse. Fools". Delusional...

Having said this life is much better when you ignore 2 or 3 specific, very angry, people.

Once you keep away from "those" things there is some very interesting and informed discussion. My views have been changed on some things, and on others I have learnt something. Things I disagree with, but new information all the same.

Ouze wrote:And in a way, it kinds of makes me wonder what the point of a discussion forum like the OT even is for, if so few people can be swayed, if any. It's just like... intellectual masturbation, really. And while I suppose there is nothing inherently wrong with that, I wonder if other people feel the same way or if they don't.

Have you ever had your opinion on a matter, news story, or political position changed by a topic we discussed here in the OT? If so, who and what?

Although I cannot remember exactly what it was, I've had someone change my mind at least once in the OT forum. But largely I just enjoy the debate.

 d-usa wrote:
I do try to actually debate (share my thoughts and listen to yours) instead of the usual internet version of debate (yelling at you about how I am right while refusing to listen to anything you say).

It's funny because of the amount of this that happens on Dakka. Trying to avoid all those threads.
Besides, by the time I see them, they're already locked

My own personal acid test is if the a thread shows a level above 40% of Dogma Vs. Orlanth bickering it's probably turned to gak.

The idea that someone sees winning and losing in an argument on this forum is laughable. Nobody gives a crap if you correct some guy you have never met and never will on the internet about gun law in Tennessee.

My posts probably mostly fall into the gobblygook category, thanks for pointing that option out Amaya.

I find it very amusing that this thread is proving the point of the OP. See the quoted parts for reference.

I will also join the team that attacks the original evidence and idea, and say that yes I have been swayed in my thinking from time to time or enlightened on something. I also fall into the intellectual masturbation category, I sometimes join into a discussion just to test my memory of facts on a given subject and to see if I can formulate it into a coherent statement.

Ouze wrote:

 sebster wrote:
and especially how threads tend to get worse and worse as they go on -

or at least, attacks the original idea or supporting evidence. No one really ever seems to get convinced of anything.

I've definitely learned from reading the OT, I've learned a lot about the politics of different places, the rationale behind certain beliefs, and an awful lot about gun control.

I think you just have to approach it with an open mind. I like the OT.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, as a Science teacher, I see this all the time- it's not an internet only phenomenon. People have an idea of how the world works, and you can demonstrate to them that it is a misconception. They'll be surprised, interested. They'll nod solemnly when you explain the current theories to them. Then they'll head off, and in the test (or sometimes even in the homework) they will write down their original misconception about 50% of the time. This doesn't happen if it's something they haven't already formed a view on, something outside their experience. But if they have somehow formed a view, and it's incorrect, it's hell to get rid of it. Best example I have is gravity. Kids always think heavier things fall faster, always. So I show them the video of Niel Armstrong with the feather and the hammer on the moon. I get a vacuum tube and suck all the air out and show a coin and a feather falling at the same speed. I explain how air resistance is what can give the appearance of "falling at different speeds" but that gravity exerts the same acceleration on everything, regardless of size. I point out a frequent exam question which asks them about the hammer and feather on the moon situation, and to explain it. I point out that every year, kids get the question wrong because they revert to their original beliefs. They all solemnly agree that that is dumb, and this year it won't happen.
It always happens.

I try to combat that by making them write reflective diaries for homework:
1. What did I think when I came to lesson today?
2. What did I learn?
3. How has my thinking changed?

Unfortunately its not just kids. How many adults get confused when asked which weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers.

 Ouze wrote:

 sebster wrote:
Yeah, I remember that study as well. It explained a lot about dakka, and especially how threads tend to get worse and worse as they go on - the opinions get more strident, especially among whichever side happens to be losing.

So, Sebster made this observation in a different thread. I don't want to offtrack it, so a new one, perhaps, is in order. I was thinking that in many threads here, maybe most, one side states an opinion and maybe some facts that support it, and an opposing team forms and presents their own evidence, or at least, attacks the original idea or supporting evidence. No one really ever seems to get convinced of anything.

And in a way, it kinds of makes me wonder what the point of a discussion forum like the OT even is for, if so few people can be swayed, if any. It's just like... intellectual masturbation, really. And while I suppose there is nothing inherently wrong with that, I wonder if other people feel the same way or if they don't.

Have you ever had your opinion on a matter, news story, or political position changed by a topic we discussed here in the OT? If so, who and what?

Why do you think the point of Dakka OT is to sway opinion? Its to keep the dregs in the basement where we belong. away from the more polite Dakka cityfolk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amaya wrote:
Frazzled IS the crazy uncle of the OT forum.

Corrected your typo.