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Power of the machine spirit allows you to fire one additional weapon and your full BS at another target.
Could you target a flyer (or anything that you would normaly only be able be hit by snapshots) and hit on your full BS?

Sure, then when you declare the snapshot, the BS drops to 1. It was worded like that because old POTMS has a reduced BS of its own. Now it uses the full value.

Nice try...

No. All of the weapons fired by the flyer are either fired with the Skyfire rule or without. PotMS doesn't change this. A shame, as it'd give good use to the Plasma Cannon option on a Stormraven.

fake edit: you might be talking about a Land Raider, then no, as it doesn't have skyfire at all, the PotMS will be resolved at BS1.

I think the OP is talking about a lane raider or a similarly "powered" vehicle.

I have had this problem in a game too with my opponent's Storm Raven wanting to shoot at my Dakkajet, the way we handled it was thusly.
1. Declare POTMS
2. Allocate targets with normal shooting and POTMS
3. Declare which, if any will use the skyfire special rule
4. Resolve shots accordingly.
Not strictly RAW, but it is how we decided to resolve it.

A storm raven using POTMS to use the top mounted turret against another flyer will get skyfire. The rest of the shots can go somewhere else, with or without skyfire.

A land raider, never having possessed skyfire, does not get to use skyfire with POTMS.

-cgmckenzie

I was thinking more of a LR firing one of it's guns at a flyer..
I dont play marines so I am on the receiving end of this but it appears to me that RAW PotMS would allow you to fire at a flyer at your full BS

Nothing in potms overrides the snapshot at flyers rule.

 sn0zcumb3r wrote:
I was thinking more of a LR firing one of it's guns at a flyer..
I dont play marines so I am on the receiving end of this but it appears to me that RAW PotMS would allow you to fire at a flyer at your full BS

Nope. Nice try. Much like axes on the Banshees, it is trumped by the rule you are looking to use.

 cgmckenzie wrote:
A storm raven using POTMS to use the top mounted turret against another flyer will get skyfire. The rest of the shots can go somewhere else, with or without skyfire.

A land raider, never having possessed skyfire, does not get to use skyfire with POTMS.

-cgmckenzie

Uhm...nooooo, you declare skyfire or not for ALL your shooting, not just some of it.

And it is at the beginning of the shooting phase that you do declare you are using Skyfire or not?

 Shinkaze wrote:
And it is at the beginning of the shooting phase that you do declare you are using Skyfire or not?

Yup, start of the shooting phase.

Sorry, I worded that poorly. Not sure what I was thinking there.

-cgmckenzie

The only time POTMS bypasses Snapfire would be for shooting an additional weapon when moving at Cruising Speed. If something forces you to Snapfire(Flyers or Stunned) then the POTMS is done at BS1.

The first, I don't think "skyfire" is a special shooting mode, but just a special rule about shooting.
There are two shooting mode: normal shooting, Snap Shots. Whenever LR moving at Cruising Speed, or shoot a flayer without skyfire special rule, that's both do "Snap shots". So in my mind, the flow as follow:
1. declare POTMS.
2. check the target(s), if it need to do Snap Shots. (the skyfire special rule would work on this checking, and just here)
3. POTMS works on Snap Shots.

This is just my view, I'm not very sure about it. Hope more discussions to make it clear.

 Diudiu wrote:
The first, I don't think "skyfire" is a special shooting mode, but just a special rule about shooting.
There are two shooting mode: normal shooting, Snap Shots. Whenever LR moving at Cruising Speed, or shoot a flayer without skyfire special rule, that's both do "Snap shots". So in my mind, the flow as follow:
1. declare POTMS.
2. check the target(s), if it need to do Snap Shots. (the skyfire special rule would work on this checking, and just here)
3. POTMS works on Snap Shots.

This is just my view, I'm not very sure about it. Hope more discussions to make it clear.

Under flyers hard to hit rule all shots must be resolved as snapshots unless the weapon has skyfire pg 81. In that case a LR with POTMS still cant fire full bs, because without skyfire it MUST fire snapshots.

It also says that for flyers, skyfire is declared at the beginning of the shooting phase. under skyfire you have to additionally have interceptor to hit ground targets other than snapshots. (specific wording says "only" snapshots)

In both cases, neither scenario points to POTMS allowing you to shoot snapshots with full BS. The wording has allowed for LR's and SR's to work as they have before.

Yonush wrote:
Nothing in potms overrides the snapshot at flyers rule.

Yes it does, the fact that it says it gets to fire at full ballistic skill. It has always been the case that the Machine Spirit was essentially treated as a separate entity, even being able to shoot when the vehicle couldn't. The only thing in its rules that changed was that it can no longer fire when the vehicle goes Flat Out. So why are people assuming anything else should be different?

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Yonush wrote:
Nothing in potms overrides the snapshot at flyers rule.

Yes it does, the fact that it says it gets to fire at full ballistic skill. It has always been the case that the Machine Spirit was essentially treated as a separate entity, even being able to shoot when the vehicle couldn't. The only thing in its rules that changed was that it can no longer fire when the vehicle goes Flat Out. So why are people assuming anything else should be different?

Paitryn wrote:

 Diudiu wrote:
The first, I don't think "skyfire" is a special shooting mode, but just a special rule about shooting.
There are two shooting mode: normal shooting, Snap Shots. Whenever LR moving at Cruising Speed, or shoot a flayer without skyfire special rule, that's both do "Snap shots". So in my mind, the flow as follow:
1. declare POTMS.
2. check the target(s), if it need to do Snap Shots. (the skyfire special rule would work on this checking, and just here)
3. POTMS works on Snap Shots.

This is just my view, I'm not very sure about it. Hope more discussions to make it clear.

Under flyers hard to hit rule all shots must be resolved as snapshots unless the weapon has skyfire pg 81. In that case a LR with POTMS still cant fire full bs, because without skyfire it MUST fire snapshots.

It also says that for flyers, skyfire is declared at the beginning of the shooting phase. under skyfire you have to additionally have interceptor to hit ground targets other than snapshots. (specific wording says "only" snapshots)

In both cases, neither scenario points to POTMS allowing you to shoot snapshots with full BS. The wording has allowed for LR's and SR's to work as they have before.

If POTMS couldn't allow it to shoot Snap Shots with full BS, it couldn't work while LR moving on Cruising Speed else.
Because in Shooting With Vehicles: "A vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can only make Snap Shots". Is that means if a LR moved at Cruising Speed, POTMS just allow it to shoot one more target, but with BS1? I don't think this is rational.

If you're forced to fire snap shots, the shots are resolved at BS 1. This goes for shooting at Cruising Speed too. The snap shot rule applies over the Land Raider's POTMS

Additionally, the Space Marine FAQ says to ignore the POTMS entry in the Land Raider entry. So yes, they are fired at BS1.

Well, it says to reference the rulebook, which states it is subject to the normal rules for shooting. So, yes, fired at BS1 as everyone has said.

 Kevin949 wrote:
Well, it says to reference the rulebook, which states it is subject to the normal rules for shooting. So, yes, fired at BS1 as everyone has said.

Yes,it says this POTMS shot is subject to the normal rules for shooting. But I think this means the shoting rules for " target", LOS ,and so on.
If the POTMS shot is still fire at BS 1, how to explain the words " the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full BS than normally permitted" ?
What is the "normally permitted" ? I think it is the permition: how many weapon you can fire at full BS with the vehicle.
So I think PTMS really allow you make 2 shots at full BS when LR moves at combat speed, or 1 shot at full BS when it moves at cruising speed. (though this bonus shot is still a snap shot , but is a full BS snap shot)

Thank you

ian_destiny wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
Well, it says to reference the rulebook, which states it is subject to the normal rules for shooting. So, yes, fired at BS1 as everyone has said.

Yes,it says this POTMS shot is subject to the normal rules for shooting. But I think this means the shoting rules for " target", LOS ,and so on.
If the POTMS shot is still fire at BS 1, how to explain the words " the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full BS than normally permitted" ?
What is the "normally permitted" ? I think it is the permition: how many weapon you can fire at full BS with the vehicle.
So I think PTMS really allow you make 2 shots at full BS when LR moves at combat speed, or 1 shot at full BS when it moves at cruising speed. (though this bonus shot is still a snap shot , but is a full BS snap shot)

Thank you

Rather than "not being able to shoot". For the purpose of snap shots, it's "full BS" is 1.

 Kevin949 wrote:

Rather than "not being able to shoot". For the purpose of snap shots, it's "full BS" is 1.

In "Divination - Foreboding", "fire Overwatch on their full Ballistic Skill, rather than Ballistic Skill 1."
I don't think "full Ballistic Skill" would mean BS1 in Snap Shots, but not in Overwatch.

Wow... much like power axes going at I1 because of their rule, the snapshot reducing BS to 1 escapes a lot of people, huh?

In Overwatch, it said "Any shots fired as Overwatch can only be fired as Snap Shots", In "Divination - Foreboding", "fire Overwatch on their full Ballistic Skill, rather than Ballistic Skill 1."
I think that means, the full BS in Snap Shots would be override BS1.

What? No, it means no such thing. Also, that ability has no bearing on PotMS so I don't know why it's being brought up.

Both in POTMS and Foreboding, that's status of "full BS" in Snap Shots. Why it has no bearing on POTMS?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of cause, no words as "full BS would override BS1 in POTMS" very clearly. But at least, it proves "full BS" is NOT BS1 in Snap Shots.

 Diudiu wrote:
Both in POTMS and Foreboding, that's status of "full BS" in Snap Shots. Why it has no bearing on POTMS?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of cause, no words as "full BS would override BS1 in POTMS" very clearly. But at least, it proves "full BS" is NOT BS1 in Snap Shots.

Full BS subject to the normal rules of shooting. That is the phrase you should focus on.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Diudiu wrote:
Both in POTMS and Foreboding, that's status of "full BS" in Snap Shots. Why it has no bearing on POTMS?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of cause, no words as "full BS would override BS1 in POTMS" very clearly. But at least, it proves "full BS" is NOT BS1 in Snap Shots.

Full BS subject to the normal rules of shooting. That is the phrase you should focus on.

Overwatch is Snap Shots too. I just don't think the Snap Shots in Overwatch and shoot flyer without skyfire, are different.
And if these Snap Shots are same "Snap Shots", the full BS should work in same way.