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Don't you get the option whether or not to delay enemies?

TheCaptain wrote:I don't really need to argue it, because I've played against it, but I offer you to try it face off against 4+ flyers and you'll discover I have a good idea of what I'm talking about.. A TAC list of flyers will beat all but the most tailored lists, even guard.

Your tone has certainly changed; a few weeks ago you claimed the only way to beat IG was to cheat. I might fathom a guess you are trolling again, since you have contradicted yourself which tells me you don't really believe the game is as cut-and-dry as you claim sometimes.

TheCaptain wrote:And 3 hydras is insufficient AA?

That doesn't make it sufficient, it just makes it better than those armies that can't muster as such.

 Amaya wrote:
Hydras are one of the most efficient AA option in the game that doesn't have Skyfire. What would you use instead of them or actual flyers as IG?

They do have Skyfire.

 NWansbutter wrote:
Well-played, challenging games I am 100% in favour of, and that's what my tournament experience has been. But I've never been at a tournament where people had a list like that Necron thing that is basically unbeatable except by tailored lists (as you've pointed out, Captain). That just doesn't seem fun at all for either the Necron player or the other side in any way shape or form (as confirmed be Reecius from his playtesting).

That's because if it comes up against an army it can't table, or the dice are away from it for even a little bit, it can't win, as it has such a pathetic ground presence that it can't take objectives, and thus tabling is the only way to win with it. I'd give it a few months when people cop onto some of the less conventional counters to flyers (many seem to think this game is all about killing), that such a list will struggle. As you can see in the video, there's a lot of space taken up in the air, and an army with a lot of troops can use that against them by moving to within 18" of specific flyers to prevent them getting shot with the others finding space hard to find to make up for it.

TheCaptain wrote:The last demonstrated route almost completely nullifies that; even if you get your troops within 18" of the flyer-player's side of the board, only takes two turns to come about and get shots at your own edge.

Exactly how is this a positive argument for you? If the list needs to table the opponent to win, how is shooting every two turns a good thing? When you think about flyers coming on turn 2 at most, and the game beng 5-7 turns, that's only 2-3 turns of shooting. And that's ignoring the fact that your flyers can be taken down in those respite turns when they can't shoot.

TheCaptain wrote:Not to mention most, if not all AFAIK, flyers can deep strike.

Not relevant; Deep Striking is the turn they come in, and this discussion is about limiting their movement. The best Deep Strike will get you is getting you behind the enemy facing his rear, but that will often involve teleporting near to the board edge, and in the end all it accomplishes for this disucssion is that the enemy moves backwards rather than forwards to mitigate them.

TheCaptain wrote:And there's vector dancer. My vultures, and some other flyers, can move an ADDITIONAL 90 degrees after moving.

Only ForgeWorld have these. Not eveyrone plays with FW, and most tournaments don't either (or at least in Europe and parts of the US).

Basically, no it isn't easier said than done, and I say that from experience, both using and facing flyers.

Peregrine wrote:Of course tournaments have various comp rules that try to force people to play how the game is "meant" to be played instead of according to the actual rules GW has published, but that doesn't mean we have to grant it any legitimacy.

Ok so you want to play the GW rules as published; please go read the introduction pages to each and every Imperial Armour book please and then get back to me; if you need a hand, I'm refering to the section that says these units aren't designed for consistent 40k play and should require your opponent's permission. This hasn't changed. And as much as your want to say the individual comps of different tournies don't matter to the discussion, they do, because they are still something people here might play. As you said, the OP didn't state a set of parameters for which environment we are discussing, so why are you being a hypocrite in trying to exclude ours?

Well not everything under its base; if it lands one Troops that's a mishap. But if it lands on any piece of terrain it is fine whether impassable or not.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Well not everything under its base; if it lands one Troops that's a mishap. But if it lands on any piece of terrain it is fine whether impassable or not.

Only enemy models.

No any models; if you annot place the base then it is mishap, and you cannot overlap bases with any models, friend or foe.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Yup deep strike mishap is if the base lands on friendly models, in impassable terrain, off the board or on or within 1" of an enemy model.

No it doesn't mishap if it lands in impassable terrain.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Yup deep strike mishap is if the base lands on friendly models, in impassable terrain, off the board or on or within 1" of an enemy model.

No it doesn't mishap if it lands in impassable terrain.

Read the deep strike rules. Now point me to where in the FLyer rules it states that a Flyer does not mishap when deep striking onto impassable terrain.

The part that says flyers ignore terrain and may land in impassable terrain without harm or penalty.