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I'm interested in building a mech vet guard list, but don't know whether to load them into chimeras or vendettas. Besides reserve restrictions, my main deterrent is being unsure as to if I need to hover to disembark. I realize they could not disembark as normal in the movement phase if I were zooming, but I'm unsure regarding the grav chute rules.

Grav shute rules have been changed ever so slightly. BEFORE if a model couldnt be placed per deep strike rules you lost that model. Now you loose the entire squad, but still usable but way more penalizing. Im thinking they want you to hover and risk being shot at . IMHO

Lungpickle wrote:
Grav shute rules have been changed ever so slightly. BEFORE if a model couldnt be placed per deep strike rules you lost that model. Now you loose the entire squad, but still usable but way more penalizing. Im thinking they want you to hover and risk being shot at . IMHO

Actually, that's always been the grav chute rules. If the GC unit mishaps, it is destroyed. I think you may be confusing models unable to disembark 9which is losing the unplaced model) with deep strike mishaps (unable to place a model, the entire unit mishaps).

The Grav Chute rules only require that you go Flat Out in order to get your guys out, which can be done either in Hover mode or while Zooming.

 Danny Internets wrote:
The Grav Chute rules only require that you go Flat Out in order to get your guys out, which can be done either in Hover mode or while Zooming.

True, but it can also be argued that nothing in the grav chute rules overrides the restriction of no disembarking while zooming.

You mean other than the specific codex rule that allows it.....................

 don_mondo wrote:
You mean other than the specific codex rule that allows it.....................

During flat-out. There's no exception for overriding the zooming part.
You have two restrictions.
You have one exception.
Restrictions win.

So can a flyer move "flat out"?

rigeld2 wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
You mean other than the specific codex rule that allows it.....................

During flat-out. There's no exception for overriding the zooming part.
You have two restrictions.
You have one exception.
Restrictions win.

Have you read the Necron FAQ? Invasion Beams.

 Byte wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
You mean other than the specific codex rule that allows it.....................

During flat-out. There's no exception for overriding the zooming part.
You have two restrictions.
You have one exception.
Restrictions win.

Have you read the Necron FAQ? Invasion Beams.

I'm sure that Night Scythes have Grav Chute... And are vendettas.
Perhaps take the post in the context of the thread?

Question again, (at work, no rulebook access), can flyers (in there movement options) at any point do something called flatout (or does it have a different name)?

TheTrans wrote:
Question again, (at work, no rulebook access), can flyers (in there movement options) at any point do something called flatout (or does it have a different name)?

They can, both in hover mode and while zooming.
But while zooming there is an added disembark restriction (basicly: you can't) for which there is no specific exception.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Byte wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
You mean other than the specific codex rule that allows it.....................

During flat-out. There's no exception for overriding the zooming part.
You have two restrictions.
You have one exception.
Restrictions win.

Have you read the Necron FAQ? Invasion Beams.

I'm sure that Night Scythes have Grav Chute... And are vendettas.
Perhaps take the post in the context of the thread?

To don_mondo's point of codex rules being the exception to rulebook. Did I really have to explain that? Come on now.

 Byte wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Byte wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
You mean other than the specific codex rule that allows it.....................

During flat-out. There's no exception for overriding the zooming part.
You have two restrictions.
You have one exception.
Restrictions win.

Have you read the Necron FAQ? Invasion Beams.

I'm sure that Night Scythes have Grav Chute... And are vendettas.
Perhaps take the post in the context of the thread?

To don_mondo's point of codex rules being the exception to rulebook. Did I really have to explain that? Come on now.

Except in the codex rules, no exception is given.
Necrons do give an exception. But we're discussing a Vendetta, which has no such exception

So the vendetta can make a "Flat Out" move while flying and hovering, the rules say "If the Valk has moved flat out, passengers may still disembark,..." so technically (and still unsure if their move while flying is called flatout, if it isn't this point is moot and my apologies), they may still disembark as per the codex that trumps the BRB correct?

Flat Out is now the vehicle version of running (extra movement in Shooting Phase).

With my gaming group we are willing to allow the Grav Chute Insertion and Shadow Skies (GK Codex) rules to be used like the now updated Skies of Blood rule for the BA Stormraven.

Also to rigeld2, no matter what the BRB says about restrictions, if a codex gives permission to do something, you are able to do so for the pertaining units/models from that codex, pg 7 "On rare occasions, a conflict arises between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence."

Crash, there are two restrictions:
1. Cannot disembark if the vehicle moves Flat-out.
2. Cannot disembark from a Zooming Flyer.

Grav Chute gives permission to disembark after moving flat out. Where is the permission to disembark from a Zooming Flyer?

Happyjew wrote:
Crash, there are two restrictions:
1. Cannot disembark if the vehicle moves Flat-out.
2. Cannot disembark from a Zooming Flyer.

Grav Chute gives permission to disembark after moving flat out. Where is the permission to disembark from a Zooming Flyer?

I've been drinking a bit this eve; where exactly is the "No Flat out in a turn where disembarkation happened and visa versa" in the 6th edition rules?

Embarking, after normal move: explicitly denied, anything else, cannot find.

Seriously I did not see it in the flat out rules, nor the transport rules, but again: Drinking this eve.

It is not spelled out specifically, however, you can only voluntarily disembark in the Movement phase. Flat Out is done in the Shooting phase.

No, it is not specifically denied.

So now you have 1 denial, and 1 allowance with an exemption to normal rule:

Grav Chute insertion, Shadow Skies, and Skies of blood all allow, specifically, the disembarkation after Flat out movement, so long as you follow their specific rules.

It goes like this:
Flyer-Transport: I am zooming
Transport rules: you cannot Disembark units if you move more than 6"
Flyer-transport: OK, in the shooting phase I am now moving Flat oput.
GCI/SoB/SS:You can go ahead and disembark after your flat out move following my Rules.

See there are no rule governing Flyer-transports aside from a requirement to move at least 18" which is 12" more than disembarking allows(You can embark on a flyer-transport that has moved it's full 36" with no problem); the GCI/SoB/SS specifically allow disembarkation after a flat out move which, itself contains allowances for both rule breaks: over 6" movement and out of movement phase disembarkation

As long as the criteria for Grav Chute Insertion is met (ie Flat Out movement has happened) it can be used, Zooming means nothing in this case.

So Grav Chute not only overrides the flat-out restriction, it also overrides the zooming one?

Interesting.

Kommissar Kel wrote:I've been drinking a bit this eve; where exactly is the "No Flat out in a turn where disembarkation happened and visa versa" in the 6th edition rules?

You asked about the restriction regarding (dis)embarking and flat-out.

If the vehicle does not move prior to the unit embarking, it may move Flat Out. [page 78 last paragraph]
If the vehicle moved prior to the unit embarking, it may not move further that turn (including pivoting or Flat Out). [page 78 last paragraph]
If the unit disembarks prior to the vehicle moving it can move normally. [page 79 second paragraph]
If the unit disembarks after the vehicle moved, the vehicle cannot move further that turn (including pivoting). [page 79 second paragraph]

Models can only voluntarily disembark or disembark in the Movement phase. [page 78 third to last paragraph]
Models cannot embark upon, or disembark from, a Zooming Flyer. [page 80 third to last paragraph]

Grav Chute only overrides the voluntarily disembark in the Movement phase, and only in a certain situation.

You are assuming that pg 7 only allows Grav Chute to override one restriction, but it allows it to override any and all restrictions that conflict with it. So the unit may disembark outside of the Movement phase and even if the flyer is Zooming, but only so long as the Flyer went Flat Out.

None of the restrictions about going Flat Out in relation to Embarking/Disembarking really matter because the Flyer has to already of moved Flat Out in order to allow for Grav Chute to happen.

It does only override one restriction. You still have no permission to disembark from a Zooming Flyer.

Or do you believe that if a vehicle with the Assault Vehicle is wrecked in the opponents Turn, the unit inside can assault in the opponents Assault phase?

Or simpler, come on from reserves in a land raider, then disembark and assault.

Nice...

Happyjew wrote:
Models cannot embark upon, or disembark from, a Zooming Flyer. [page 80 third to last paragraph]

This, this is what I was looking for but could not find what with the drinking.

GCI overrides the Movement >6", and allows for disembarkation outside of the Movement phase; but you are correct it does not specifically allow disembarkation while zooming(unlike Invasion Beams).

So no GCI,SS,SoB unless you are in hover mode.

I knew you had asked about the relationship of (dis)embarking and Flat-out, did not realize you were looking for Zooming and (dis)embarkation.

It was more about looking for a restriction not covered by the allowances; The zooming restriction is that rule.

I'd say it need's FAQ'd. I'd agree that a strict interpretation of the rules is would be that they shouldn't be able to use the grav chute insertion while zooming. However I'd say fluff wise and in terms of making the rule actually useful it should be allowed. I can't imagine many occassions where anyone would want to risk putting a Vendetta into hover mode, move it flat out and then try grav chute inserting.