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With the new 6th edition rules I'm wondering what is the purpose of a Frost Axe.

Frost Axe: S: +2 AP: 2 Unwieldy 25 points
Power Fist: S: x2 AP: 2 Unwieldy 25 points

So they are both the same point cost, they both are Unwieldy, they both have AP 2 but the power fist has a much higher strength. So honestly why bother?

fluff

Do you get the extra attack with it, like the Power Axe?

yes you do get an extra attack with a frost ax.

Makumba wrote:
yes you do get an extra attack with a frost ax.

Does a power fist not give a extra attack? You can still equip a pistol and Power Fist. I see nothing under Power Fist pg. 60 that they don't grant the additional attack.


*EDIT*

Ah the Power Fist has Specialist Weapon (pg. 42) So only gains a +1 to melee if the other weapon is a Specialist Weapon as well.

Well the frost axe can be used as a normal power weapon (sword) So if you need to hit beforehand against something ti can possibly work better as a multi-tool sort.

A power fist only gets an extra attack with another specialist weapon.

I asked a GW staff member about the frost axe getting the AP2 and the extra strength and he said that it doesnt because the description says a frost axe is a normal power weapon with +1 strength. Ie the character still attacks at its normal initive with +1 strength and is only AP3

I hope that made sense

Nerm86 wrote:
I asked a GW staff member about the frost axe getting the AP2 and the extra strength and he said that it doesnt because the description says a frost axe is a normal power weapon with +1 strength. Ie the character still attacks at its normal initive with +1 strength and is only AP3

I hope that made sense

Or you could just read the FAQ that says it's S+2 Ap2 Unwieldy...

Quoting from the codex "regardless of what they look like, all frost blades or frost axes are power weapons that add +1 strength"

Seems kind of straight forward to me

The FAQ overrides the codex.

Nerm86 wrote:
Quoting from the codex "regardless of what they look like, all frost blades or frost axes are power weapons that add +1 strength"

Seems kind of straight forward to me

Just quoting from the FAQ "Frost Axe Range - Str +2 AP 2 Melee, Unweildy"

Seems kind of straight forward to me.

Sadly I can find very little use for the frost axe. The Frost sword still retains all of its original utility and is quite fluffy to boot, but the fact that a P-fist gives you double strength instead of just +2 for the same points makes it very difficult to take a frost axe.

Especially considering the new sweetness is p-fist + wolf claw combo.

Also if you looking for a combi shooting weapon to get the extra punch in, the the bonus attack you might have gotten with the frost axe is lost anyway, so might as well just stick with the fist.

Just sent this to GW, I hope I get a response or at least some justification:

Hello, just read he FAQ for the new frost axe rules.

Let me get this straight, in the old rules Logan could split his attacks as so:

S5 i5 and s8 i1

In the new rules he can split his attacks as so:

S6 i1 and s8 i1

So what is the point of him being able to split his attacks using his axe of morkai.

Also as a frost blade adds +1s and an axe adds +2s, shouldn't a frost axe add +3s to differentiate it from a normal power axe? Or maybe instead of giving a frost weapon extra strength you give it 1 better AP. ie a frost blade would be s4 Ap2 and a frost axe would be s6 AP1. after all, extreme cold can make anything brittle, even armour.

I'm sure a space wolf who had trained to use an axe for a couple hundred years wouldn't be "unwieldy" especially if it is a wolf lord in terminator armour, I can fire an assault cannon while walking but I cannot swing an axe quickly?

I would really appreciate a response to my query as the frost axe being initiative 1 severely effects my army, ie the initiative of my wolf lords is 1 instead of 5. It makes then severely ineffective in close combat. if i wanted then to be initiate 1 I would have given them a thunder hammer or a power fist.

Edit: just reread my post and there are some inaccuracies, it also looks like a 12yr old having a winge, oh well. Still pisses that a third of the models in my army are now almost useless.

Try reading Logans entry again. The weapon is called the Axe of Morkai. But it specifically says it acts as a frost blade or a power fist.

So the weapon is just as useful as it ever was. In no case will it ever function as an axe. It is just an axe in name.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nerm86 wrote:


Edit: just reread my post and there are some inaccuracies, it also looks like a 12yr old having a winge, oh well. Still pisses that a third of the models in my army are now almost useless.

Your not the only one who will have spent a weekend snipping off axe heads and attaching blades. My buddies BA Sanguinary guard army has half the models with axes. He too is looking for replacement blades so they aren't all striking last either.

 Jayden63 wrote:

Your not the only one who will have spent a weekend snipping off axe heads and attaching blades. My buddies BA Sanguinary guard army has half the models with axes. He too is looking for replacement blades so they aren't all striking last either.

But..but.. Axes are so space wolf fluff. This is fked

Hmm I'll just call all my frost axes frost blades, problem solved

Nerm86 wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

Your not the only one who will have spent a weekend snipping off axe heads and attaching blades. My buddies BA Sanguinary guard army has half the models with axes. He too is looking for replacement blades so they aren't all striking last either.

But..but.. Axes are so space wolf fluff. This is fked

Hmm I'll just call all my frost axes frost blades, problem solved

But they won't be blades they will be axes because thats what they are modelled with.

Most of the difference is mostly a Fluff one, but it is also not that simple. It comes to what you want to do.
If you plan on crushing tanks, you want Power First, Thunder Hammers and Chain Fist.
You want to go after Transports or Monstrous Creatures you want Power Mauls and Frost Axes.

The other consideration is if you are using a Thunderwolf.
A Power Fist or Thunder Hammer will give you a Strength 10.
Now getting extra attacks will cost you a lot of points, so either mix them with a Wolf Claw and you will have most of your basis covered. If you are planning on taking a Storm Shield this is also the better choice.

A Frost Axe or Power Maul will give you Strength of 7. This is an excellent choice for extra Attacks cheaply, just keep your bolt pistol and you are good. If you want AP2 take the Frost Axe, if you don’t care take the Power Maul. You could even take both to keep your S7 attack and be able to attack at either I4 or I1.
Both are good for tearing up Transports, Walkers or MCs.

I tend to take the Axe of the Fist just because they look cooler looking.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Well the frost axe can be used as a normal power weapon (sword) So if you need to hit beforehand against something ti can possibly work better as a multi-tool sort.

No it can't, a Frost Blade is a normal Power Sword, there actually is a difference.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Well the frost axe can be used as a normal power weapon (sword) So if you need to hit beforehand against something ti can possibly work better as a multi-tool sort.

No it can't, a Frost Blade is a normal Power Sword, there actually is a difference.

That's what I said, even if I said it in a weird way.

You won't always need AP2, sometimes just a bit of initiative and AP3 gets the job done.

Frost Axe would actual be better for the wolves then a Power fist unless your going against Tanks. the Str 6 still means your wounding on 2's against toughness 4 and instant killing against toughness 3 anyways which is your weak point.

So you have the extra attack that no body else can get while still wounding on 2's. The Axe looks like a great buy in my eyes.

Darkwynn wrote:
Frost Axe would actual be better for the wolves then a Power fist unless your going against Tanks. the Str 6 still means your wounding on 2's against toughness 4 and instant killing against toughness 3 anyways which is your weak point.

So you have the extra attack that no body else can get while still wounding on 2's. The Axe looks like a great buy in my eyes.

For some I have just taken Melta-Bombs if i am expecting AV14

On terminators power axes are great and included in the cost of the armor but there is no good reason to upgrade to a frost axe, if you want higher strength the powerfist is better all round for termies.

In power Armour it comes down to this +1A versus +4 str, and to me str 8 wins out every time if your gonna be hitting last you may aswell make sure your enemy wont get back up.

Also if your shelling out for a AP2 weapon you may as well take the one that'll tear a transport apart.

Power axes are far superior to frost axes same AP, same benefit from the extra attack and at S5 your wounding MEQ on a 3+ and guardsmen on 2+.

Darkwynn wrote:
Frost Axe would actual be better for the wolves then a Power fist unless your going against Tanks. the Str 6 still means your wounding on 2's against toughness 4 and instant killing against toughness 3 anyways which is your weak point.

So you have the extra attack that no body else can get while still wounding on 2's. The Axe looks like a great buy in my eyes.

S8 instant deaths T4 though, which does matter quite a bit.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Well the frost axe can be used as a normal power weapon (sword) So if you need to hit beforehand against something ti can possibly work better as a multi-tool sort.

No it can't, a Frost Blade is a normal Power Sword, there actually is a difference.

That's what I said, even if I said it in a weird way.

You won't always need AP2, sometimes just a bit of initiative and AP3 gets the job done.

Read it again, that's not what you said.

Quite simply, a Frost axe is not the same thing as a Frost Sword. Only if listed as a Frost Weapon are they interchangeable based on model. This thread however is about a Frost Axe quite specifically.

The Frost Axe can only be better if you use the free attack for a pistol. It also depends on the number of your base attacks, the less you have the more important gets the extra attack.
Let's look at a basic Wolfguard. A fist is undoubtly much better vs. vehicles, T6+ and T4 multi-wound. It loses clearly vs. all T3 and T4 single wound. It is about the same vs. T5 and T4 with FNP. So it really depends on what you are facing regulary, but I think the Axe would be at an advantage more often than the fist.

Ragnar69 wrote:
The Frost Axe can only be better if you use the free attack for a pistol. It also depends on the number of your base attacks, the less you have the more important gets the extra attack.
Let's look at a basic Wolfguard. A fist is undoubtly much better vs. vehicles, T6+ and T4 multi-wound. It loses clearly vs. all T3 and T4 single wound. It is about the same vs. T5 and T4 with FNP. So it really depends on what you are facing regulary, but I think the Axe would be at an advantage more often than the fist.

The axe does not deny FnP on T4 models, a BA player can always attempt to save that wound against a frost axe if a sanguinery priest is in range, he gets hit by a power fist its game over.

The frost axe would be good if normal power axes were not there alot cheaper and doing almost the exact same thing.

hobojebus wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
The Frost Axe can only be better if you use the free attack for a pistol. It also depends on the number of your base attacks, the less you have the more important gets the extra attack.
Let's look at a basic Wolfguard. A fist is undoubtly much better vs. vehicles, T6+ and T4 multi-wound. It loses clearly vs. all T3 and T4 single wound. It is about the same vs. T5 and T4 with FNP. So it really depends on what you are facing regulary, but I think the Axe would be at an advantage more often than the fist.

The axe does not deny FnP on T4 models, a BA player can always attempt to save that wound against a frost axe if a sanguinery priest is in range, he gets hit by a power fist its game over.

The frost axe would be good if normal power axes were not there alot cheaper and doing almost the exact same thing.

[A little tit-for-tat here]

True, but if I take down the Sanguinary Priest with 5-7 S6 AP2 Attacks in a challenge, I wont have to worry about it next turn.

Like the others have said it depends on the guy with the Frost Axe’s job. If I have a Thunderlord with a Frost Axe and a Bolt Pistol I will be getting 6 Attacks. With Wolf Tooth Necklace I am hitting on a 3+ with 7 S7 AP2 Attacks, which it’s going to hurt a lot of things. If I have the Runic Armor/Belt of Russ I have a 2+/4++ Save.

That’s what it’s all about in challenges, not ID. I could pull out one who has a Thunder Hammer/Wolf Claw and hit you on I5, but I will only wound you on a 3+ or I can go off on I1 and waste 3 Attacks after the ID. I am not going to want this. I am going to want to inflict the 2 wounds so next Assault Phase I can get 8 Attacks with my Saga of the Warrior Born. The same goes for fighting a MC or Dreadnaught, that extra attack can make all of the difference here.

Now if I was building a dedicated MC/Tank Hunter, yes I am going to go for the Thunder Hammer or Power Fist. in my Grey Hunters, each Pack has a Power Fist [mostly because I have no access to Melta-Bomb with out a Wolf Guard]. With my Blood Claws I have Power “Weapons” for the extra Attacks, but I don’t plan on fighting MCs or Tanks with them, if I do I have a Wolf Priest with Melta-Bombs for that. My Long Fangs have Power Axes for the Deepstriking Terminators [that and they look cool].

I guess what I am saying [this is sort of opposite of what I have said above, but it illustrates what I am trying to say]:
There is no reason to take a Frost Axe, but there is no Reason not to take one.

Wow... is it just me or is that a little confusing?

Individually the words made sense but when he put them together...

If you challenge the priest with a powerfist you only need 1 successful attack, but with a power axe you get 1 more attack but you let him roll FnP against each wound inflicted and although it should not happen its possible he could make all of them.

If your going for an AP 2 weapon for challenged the fist wins.

As for wounds after the ID thats just wrong all wounds in a challenge happen at once, if the IC has got 3 wounds and you ID it you still count all 3 wounds to combat resolution.

And if your fighting say a c'tan shard with a frostaxe your wounding on 5's, with a fist you wound on 3's so your extra attacks are worse because there's a much higher chance they wont wound, if its a carnifex Its T6 so your frostaxe wounds on 4+ but the fist wounds on a 2+.

The fist is superior against infantry and against MC, the extra single attack is not worth the points cost upgrade from a regular poweraxe, it just not logical to ever buy a frost axe when poweraxes and powerfists exist.